rmartin65
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2011
- 2,816
- 2,372
But then why did Gretzky say it got better? It is a contemporary quote, which you claim we shouldn't just through away because it disagrees with our world view.But that's not what happened. 15 years after 1965 it got worse. I think I was and am one of the leading people here that said "the early 80's is almost as bad as War time hockey"...
Are we only looking at the early 50s? No, if we are big on contemporary opinions, we should be looking at the entire scope of history.In fact, most of the accounts from the early 50's is that the game is easier for skaters (skaters had a tougher time back in the 20's and were better then)...the only exception that's consistent: goaltending. Which jives with film, stats of non-goalies, and the logical trajectory of the position that we have full scope of, etc.
And again, respectfully, I feel like you are consistently missing the greater point that I am trying to make- better does not mean greater. You can drop the worst goalie in today's NHL into 1960 (to pick a random-ish time) and I am willing to bet that he is the best goalie in the world. As you are so quick to note, the position has evolved. The techniques and best practices that the early guys pioneered grew. But the worst NHL goalie today isn't historically greater than Plante- I think we can agree on that- even if he would stop more pucks than Plante.
I can do calculus; Pythagoras couldn't. The worst army in the world today would demolish the Romans or the Mongols. Things generally build on each other, but that doesn't make the new thing greater within a historical context.
We really like the contemporary opinion until it says something we don't like...over and over again at this point.
Then why are you so quick to discount Gretzky's opinion? Or Richard's? They are contemporary opinions who are disagreeing with your outlook.
I don't think making arguments like "affirmative action era bias" is a productive one. I think people want players from each and every ea evaluated within the historical environment they existed in.Rhetorically, how many people have to say: pre-forward pass goaltending wasn't anything special before we unhook from a previously unfounded position that it was something? I can't help but wonder what would happen if this became canon first, instead of the current affirmative action era bias taking place haha
There is no watershed moment where established goalies suddenly couldn't cope. The greatest active goalie is, who, Vasilevskiy? Who overlapped with Carey Price, or, better, Henrik Lundqvist (who people seem to really like this round), who overlapped with Brodeur and Hasek, who overlapped with Roy, who overlapped with Billy Smith, who overlapped with Dryden, Parent, Esposito, who overlapped with Plante, Worsely, and Hall, who overlapped with Lumley, who overlapped with Brimsek, who overlapped with Thompson, who overlapped with Hainsworth, Gardiner, Worters, who overlapped with Connell, Benedict, who overlapped with Vezina, who overlapped with LeSeuer, Moran, Nicholson, who overlapped with Hutton and Stocking, who overlapped with Merritt, who overlapped with Paton, and now we are back to the 1880s. Talented players find a way to stay relevant as the times change- that is why they are all time greats.