HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 10

[Dr John Carlson]

Procedure

• In this vote, you will be presented with 15 players based on their ranking in the Round 1 aggregate list
• Players will be listed in alphabetical order to avoid creating bias
• You will submit ten names in a ranked order, #1 through #10, without ties via PM to both @Dr John Carlson and @Professor What. That means five names out of these fifteen will be left unranked on your ballot.
• Use the same private message thread every week rather than starting a new PM
• Results of this vote will be posted after each voting cycle, but the individual ballots themselves will remain secret until the completion of this project
• The top 5 players will be added to the final list (unless a very large break exists at the spot between 4&5 (or 3&4!), or the break between 5&6 is minimal)
• Lists of players eligible for voting will grow as the project continues
• Voting threads will continue until we have added 60 names to the list, for a total of 12 voting threads

Eligible Voters

• Ballots from voters who have submitted an approved Round 1 ranking of 80 goaltenders (which was used to shape the aggregate list) will have their votes tabulated in the final ranking
• These voters are: @nabby12, @overpass, @frisco, @Professor What, @DN28, @jigglysquishy, @tony d, @rmartin65, @Vilica, @bobholly39, @The Pale King, @blogofmike, @Dr John Carlson, @MXD, @Michael Farkas, @ContrarianGoaltender, @VanIslander, @seventieslord, @Weztex

Guidelines

• Respect each other. No horseplay or sophistry!
• Please refrain from excessive use of the 'laughing' reaction to indicate disagreement / hold grudges
• Stay on topic and don't get caught up in talking about non-eligible players
• Participate, but retain an open mind throughout the discussion
• Do not speculate who cast any particular ballot. Do not make judgments about the mindset of whoever cast that particular ballot. All individual ballots will be revealed at the end of the project
• Anybody may participate in the discussion, whether they submitted a list or not

House Rules

• Any attempts to derail a discussion thread with disrespect to old-time hockey will be met with frontier justice
• Take a drink when someone mentions the number of hockey registrations in a given era
• Finish your drink when someone mentions that wins are a team stat

The actual voting period will open up on Friday, January 3rd at midnight and continue through Sunday, January 5th at 11:59 PM Eastern time. I will release the results of the vote the morning of Monday, January 6th, at which point the next voting thread will begin.

Vote 10 Candidates

• Lorne Chabot
• Gerry Cheevers
• Marc-Andre Fleury
• Ed Giacomin
• Dave Kerr
• Olaf Kolzig
• Ryan Miller
• Evgeni Nabokov
• Tuukka Rask
• Mike Richter
• John Ross Roach
• Al Rollins
• Igor Shesterkin
• Tim Thomas
• Mike Vernon

Click to read more...

 

[jigglysquishy]

Wow. Lots of modern goalies. What am I counting, 10 that played after 2000?

Lots of uninspiring goalies available. Roach and Shesterkin stand out quite positively to me.

 

[MXD]

I ... sorta like Ryan Miller here quite a bit amongst new entrants? I feel like there was probably a time were he was legit seen as the best netminder in the world. A very short time, but a time nonetheless.

Vernon was a NR for me and it seems we're scraping the bottom of the barrell despite some 15 or 20 liters still left to drink.

 

[MadArcand]

What a Christmas present, Vernon! The only goalie that can make Tim Thomas look consistent and Gerry Cheevers look valuable at the same time...

 

[rmartin65]

Looking at where these goalies stack up relative to their contemporaries-

Name	Birth Year	Number of Players on List Born within 5 Years of Birth Year	Players on List Born within 5 Years of Birth Year
Mike Vernon	1963	7	Dominik Hasek, Patrick Roy, Ed Belfour, Grant Fuhr, Curtis Joseph, John Vanbiesbrouck, Tom Barrasso
Mike Richter	1966	7	Dominik Hasek, Patrick Roy, Ed Belfour, Grant Fuhr, Curtis Joseph, John Vanbiesbrouck, Tom Barrasso
Al Rollins	1926	6	Jacques Plante, Terry Sawchuk, Glenn Hall, Johnny Bower, Harry Lumley, Gump Worsley
Olaf Kolzig	1970	6	Dominik Hasek, Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, Ed Belfour, Curtis Joseph, Tom Barrasso
Marc-Andre Fleury	1984	6	Henrik Lundqvist, Roberto Luongo, Carey Price, Jonathan Quick, Sergei Bobrovsky, Pekka Rinne
Tuukka Rask	1987	5	Henrik Lundqvist, Carey Price, Jonathan Quick, Sergei Bobrovsky, Pekka Rinne
John Ross Roach	1900	4	Charlie Gardiner, Roy Worters, Tiny Thompson, Alec Connell
Lorne Chabot	1900	4	Charlie Gardiner, Roy Worters, Tiny Thompson, Alec Connell
Gerry Cheevers	1940	4	Bernie Parent, Jiri Holecek, Tony Esposito, Rogie Vachon
Ryan Miller	1980	4	Henrik Lundqvist, Roberto Luongo, Miika Kiprusoff, Pekka Rinne
Tim Thomas	1974	3	Martin Brodeur, Roberto Luongo, Miika Kuprusoff
Evgeni Nabokov	1975	3	Martin Brodeur, Roberto Luongo, Miika Kuprusoff
Dave Kerr	1910	2	Frank Brimsek, Turk Broda
Ed Giacomin	1939	2	Jiri Holecek, Tony Esposito
Igor Shesterkin	1995	2	Andrei Vasilevsky, Connor Hellebuyck

As far as contemporaries go, we have battles between:

John Ross Roach and Lorne Chabot
- This duo was up last week, and it looks like Ross has significantly more support than Chabot at this point. I wonder if any new information comes up that challenges this positioning.

Ed Giacomin and Gerry Cheevers
- Similar story as the above- based on last week's results, Giacomin has the advantage.

Mike Vernon and Mike Richter
- I won't like, one of the surprises for me when I saw the voting results was the amount of support Richter got- I just don't see it. Of course, I don't see it for Vernon right now either, haha, so while I think I have these two sorted relative to each other, I'd be really interested to read what other have to say.

Mike Richter and Olaf Kolzig
- This should be fun

Olaf Kolzig, Tim Thomas, and Evgeni Nabokov
- Man, I don't think I would have put Thomas in the same age bracket as the other two. He feels like a more recent goalie, right?

Evgeni Nabokov and Ryan Miller
- Again, Nabokov and Miller seem like two different "eras". I think Miller peaked higher, but Nabokov peaked for longer.

Ryan Miller and Marc-Andre Fleury
- I know I've been a MAF skeptic, but I don't think there were very many years where I'd have taken Miller over him.

Marc-Andre Fleury and Tuukka Rask
- Another repeat battle- MAF with considerably more support last round than Rask.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Vezina Shares

Stolen from @TheDevilMadeMe 's methodology and updated to 2024

There are 22 goalies with a 1.0 share or higher

	Goalie	Times	Share
1	Martin Brodeur	15	5.40
2	Dominik Hasek	11	4.76
3	Patrick Roy	17	4.63
4	Connor Hellebucyk	5	2.63
5	Ed Belfour	11	2.51
6	Pekka Rinne	5	2.12
7	Andrei Vasilevsky	6	2.05
8	Tom Barrasso	7	1.98
9	Sergei Bobrovsky	6	1.97
10	Henrik Lundqvist	10	1.93
11	Grant Fuhr	8	1.84
12	Braden Holtby	3	1.68
13	Roberto Luongo	9	1.66
14	Tim Thomas	3	1.55
15	John Vanbiesbrouck	9	1.52
16	Tuukka Rask	5	1.50
17	Miikka Kiprusoff	7	1.44
18	Carey Price	7	1.40
19	Evgeni Nabokov	6	1.23
20	Curtis Joseph	8	1.02
21	Pete Peeters	3	1.02
22	Igor Shesterkin	3	1.02

Bolded are eligible. Italicized are inducted

Miller is at 0.87, Fleury is at 0.86, Kolzig and Vernon are at 0.84, Richter is at 0.21

Times top 3
Thomas - 2 (1,1)
Rask - 2 (1,2)
Shesterkin - 1 (1)
Kolzig- 1 (1)
Fleury 1 - (1)
Miller - 1 (1)
Nabokov - 1 (2)
Vernon - 1 (2)
Richter - 1 (3)


All-Star Team Finishes (1945 onwards)

Player	First	Second	Third	Total	Weighted Total
Ed Giacomin	1​	3​	0​	4​	14​
Tim Thomas	2​	0​	0​	2​	10​
Tuukka Rask	1​	1​	0​	2​	8​
Igor Shesterkin	1​	0​	0​	1​	5​
Evgeni Nabokov	1​	0​	0​	1​	5​
Ryan Miller	1​	0​	0​	1​	5​
Olaf Kolzig	1​	0​	0​	1​	5​
Marc-Andre Fleury	0​	1​	0​	1​	3​
Mike Vernon	0​	1​	0​	1​	3​
Gerry Cheevers	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​
Mike Richter	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​
Al Rollins	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​

 

[CuuuJooo]

I feel like Kirk McLean merits inclusion on this list.

*ducks*

 

[jigglysquishy]

Every Al Rollins playoff game

1951 Playoffs
Bruins beat Leafs 2-0. Al Rollins, who split starts with 36-year-old Turk Broda, injures his knee and is expected to miss "the next 10 days". Leafs win series 4-1

Leafs beat Habs 3-2 in OT
Leafs 1 Habs 0

Broda in net

Habs win 3-2 in OT
Leafs 1 Habs 1

Broda in net

Leafs win 2-1 in OT
Shots: Leafs 30 Habs 24
Leafs 2 Habs 1

The Calgary Herald · ‎Apr 18, 1951

Al Rollins, who took over the Leafs' goal tending job from veteran Turk Broda, was at his best and the Montrealers helped to thwart their own efforts by gumming up plays when in scoring position.

Leafs win 3-2 in OT
Leafs 3 Habs 1

No relevant comments

Leafs win 3-2 in OT
Shots: Leafs 41 Habs 19
Leafs 4 Habs 1

The Calgary Herald · ‎Apr 23, 1951

The crowd shouted for veteran Turk Broda, the greatest playoff goalie of them all, who played two games against Canadiens and all but one period of the six-game semi-final against Boston Bruins because of an injury to Al Rollins. But Broda was too shy and fought off teammates who tried to drag him to the microphone.

Well, Broda gets more praise than Rollins across these two series, but he has more opportunity with the injury. Lots of Leafs get praise (Broda, Kennedy, Smith, Bentley, Barilko) and it's hard to give much credit for a goalie who misses 70% of the games. Richard is the most praised player overall.

1952 Playoffs
Red Wings beat Leafs 3-0
Leafs 0 Red Wings 1

No relevant comments

Red Wings win 1-0
Leafs 0 Red Wings 2

Ludington Daily News · ‎Mar 28, 1952

The 37-year-old [Broda] made a dramatic comeback from near retirement Thursday night but couldn't quite stop the Wings.

The Leafs played their hearts out for the old man of hockey.... Conn Smythe is considering using Broda again Saturday and Tuesday at Toronto.

Broda, who made his 100th playoff game one of his greatest, was used only once during the regular season - in the final game for 30 minutes when he replaced Al Rollins.

Red Wings win 6-2
Leafs 0 Red Wings 3

Broda plays

Red Wings win 3-1
Leafs 0 Red Wings 4

The Leader-Post · ‎Apr 2, 1952

Smythe's decision to put in a bulging Turk Broda in place of Al Rollins will likely go down as the bum heave of the year.

Rollins' ego must have taken a dip when Smythe yanked him in favor of the more or less retired Broda. Stories of an impending trade with Chicago are making the rounds in which Rollins would end up in a down-the-river-trade by Chicago Hawks. In any event, it would be hard to expect Rollins to sleep well at nights either before or after he was replaced by Broda.

A Toronto Telegraph reporter had to say: "Quick now. Who is Al Rollins? You don't remember? Well he is the goalkeeper for Toronto Leafs, see, and he is the same fellow who just a few days ago was described by top brass Conn Smythe as almost as good as Detroit's Terry Sawhuck. Well, this Rollins has all of a sudden became a wallflower in the playoff series and those who felt Smythe was wrong in putting Broda in the nets are second-guessing him now..."

Hard to follow the exact logic with the goalie controversy. At 37 (almost 38), Broda is 6 years older than any other goalie in the league. Rayner, second oldest, is four years older than Gelineau in third place. There is a clear youth movement for goalies. Is Broda unnecessarily pushed out? It's not like Rollins is having good games though.

Not much praise for any Leaf, but certainly not for either goalie.

1953 Playoffs
Habs beat Hawks 3-1
Shots: Hawks 24 Habs 32
Hawks 0 Habs 1

The Leader-Post · ‎Mar 25, 1953

Hawks' persistent checking and Al Rollins' good work in the nets held Canadiens out.

Habs win 4-3
Hawks 0 Habs 2

No relevant comments

Hawks win 2-1 in OT
Hawks 1 Habs 2

Ottawa Citizen · ‎Mar 30, 1953

[Geoffrion] surprised Rollins by coming in steadily, then picking his spot and sending it low into the left corner. Rollins never had a chance.

Hawks win 3-1
Hawks 2 Habs 2

The Vancouver Sun · ‎Apr 1, 1953

A strong Chicago defence and Al Rollins' stellar netminding thwarted their scoring attack.

As a complete aside, Rocket Richard played with the Vancouver Canucks in the WHL in 1953 is the front-story April fools prank.

Hawks win 4-2
Hawks 3 Habs 2

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 3, 1953

Sid Abel, Chicago Coach, when asked in he had any special praise for any of his players: "Well, Rollins of course. Who else? He was terrific. Naturally the guys who put the pick into the net had something to do with winning too."

Abel's acclaim of Goalie Al Rollins was just about unanimous even amongst Montreal fans.

Habs win 3-0
Shots: Hawks 24 Hawks 30
Hawks 3 Habs 3

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 6, 1953

The great Rollins appeared to have cooled out a bit. He just didn't figure to stay hot forever.

Habs win 4-1
Hawks 3 Habs 4

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 8, 1953

Goalie Al Rollins, who played great hockey for the Hawks in this series.

He's the most praised Hawk overall, and man that is just not a good team. Plante makes his playoff debut here and there are glimpses of greatness.


Overall, it's hard to pull much of anything. Only 13 NHL playoff games. Only one series as a starter and it's on a big underdog. He's the best Hawk in that series, but again it's only one playoff series.

I'd like to take a closer look at his Hart year if I have time. He does not have a playoff record to be up now, but has a legendary two-year Hart run on some pretty weak Blackhawks teams.

 

[overpass]

I did some research on Al Rollins for the preliminary round. I was very open to the idea that the best goaltenders weren't always in the NHL during the Original Six era, and that maybe the second-tier goalies of that era were underrated, but I came away pretty unimpressed with Rollins. I think he was barely an NHL goalie for most of his NHL career, didn't impress that much in the minors, and had about two good to very good NHL seasons (partial regular season in 1950-51, full season in 1952-53, first half of 1953-54).

If he was born five years later, I'm not sure he would have ever been an NHL regular. Among 1926 born goalies who aren't on the list yet, I rate him clearly behind Gerry McNeil.

Pre-NHL
Rollins got an early start in pro hockey thanks to the war, playing minor pro at 18. After three seasons, no NHL teams had come calling for Rollins. So he moved to senior hockey with the goal of getting attention through an Allan Cup run, and it worked. He won the Allan Cup with the Flyers, and Chicago signed him to a minor league deal.

Rollins played one season for Kansas City in the USHL. Many expected him to move up to the big club for the 1949-50 season, but the Hawks traded for Frank Brimsek instead, who had requested a trade closer to home.

He caught a break early in the 1949-50 season when the Toronto Maple Leafs goaltending situation went off the rails. In training camp, Baz Bastien lost an eye and retired, and Howie Harvey retired due to a skin rash. And then Turk Broda started the season overweight. So the Leafs traded for Rollins in November of 1949, and kept him with the big club all season. However, he barely played, and was said to be there as a threat to keep Broda in line and in shape.

NHL
Rollins had one of his few standout seasons as an NHL rookie. He started by splitting time equally with Broda, but outplayed Broda and got most of the games late in the season. He finished with an outstanding GAA of 1.77, 2nd in Calder voting to Sawchuk. That said, this Leafs team was absolutely dominant. In the playoffs they allowed 18.8 shots against per 60, the lowest total I'm aware of. Rollins got hurt in the playoffs and Broda came in and had a playoff GAA of 1.16.

Rollins' performance fell off in 51-52. While his GAA looks good, fans and media agreed he needed to be replaced, with Harry Lumley the top candidate. Rollins was pulled in the playoffs for the 38 year old Broda and then traded with several other players for Lumley.

Rollins had an excellent first season for Chicago in 52-53, and got a lot of credit for an unexpected playoff berth. He finished second in Hart voting. The following year, 1953-54, Rollins won the Hart trophy in one of the stranger decisions in history. The Hawks were bad all season, and really fell apart defensively in the second half of the season. Rollins had a 2.61 GAA through December, and then a 3.82 GAA January-March. I think Rollins got this award as a thank you for doing his best to keep Hawks games entertaining. Rollins wasn't a post-season all-star in either season.

Past his peak
Rollins played most of the next three seasons with the Hawks, who were now starting to improve under Tommy Ivan. He had trouble holding Hank Bassen off at times. I don't think he was one of the best six goaltenders in the league world at this point, when you consider that Johnny Bower and Gerry McNeil weren't NHL starters.

After Rollins left the NHL, he didn't make much of a mark in the minor leagues. He played his last full season at age 33 for the Winnipeg Warriors.

 

[overpass]

Every Al Rollins playoff game

1952 Playoffs

Hard to follow the exact logic with the goalie controversy. At 37 (almost 38), Broda is 6 years older than any other goalie in the league. Rayner, second oldest, is four years older than Gelineau in third place. There is a clear youth movement for goalies. Is Broda unnecessarily pushed out? It's not like Rollins is having good games though.

The Leafs faded down the stretch in 1952. Rollins had a 2.56 GAA in February and March, after posting a 2.02 GAA through the end of January, and took some blame for the slump. It was at this time that Toronto fans and media were talking about trading for Harry Lumley.

It probably didn't help Rollins that his father was in a Vancouver hospital recovering from a stroke when the 1952 playoffs started.

 

[overpass]

Some articles on Rollins over his career.

Saskatchewan Star-Phoenix, Apr 17, 1948
- Key man of Edmonton Flyers, one win away from Allan Cup final
- Rollins played for New York Rovers at age 17, got rheumatic fever and was cut from the Rangers' reserve list
- Rollins reminds one of such kick-stopping goalers as Dave Kerr and Sam Timmins, believes a netminder should be on his feet unless he has to fall to smother a rebound.

Edmonton Journal, May 13, 1948
- Rollins was voted most valuable player of the Allan Cup champion Edmonton Flyers by Edmonton fans (25,000 ballots cast).
- Fraser M. Gerrie, managing editor of the Journal, introduced Rollins as "the greatest goalie in the Dominion of Canada today, not even excepting Turk Broda of Toronto Maple Leafs and Bill Durnan of Montreal Canadiens" (for what it's worth, there's obviously an element of pumping the hometown goalie's tires).

Vancouver Sun, Nov 30, 1949
-The Sun described Rollins as the lanky kid who became the best goalie in the Pacific Coast Hockey League in his three years on the coast (he did play for the local Vancouver team in his third season, so maybe some hometown boosting again).
- Rollins was coached assiduously by veteran minor pro goalie Porky Levine while in Vancouver. (Levine was retired and running a hotel in Vancouver).
- Rollins was virtually a one-man team as Edmonton Flyers beat Hamilton for the Allan Cup
- It was expected that he would move up to the Hawks this season after a year with Black Hawks USHL farm club Kansas City.

Calgary Herald, Feb 20, 1951
-Leafs had the idea of having Rollins and Broda play an equal number of games and share the Vezina trophy, but Rollins has played so well that they can't take him out.

Quebec Chronicle-Telegraph, May 4, 1954
-Rollins wins the Hart.

"Rollins's play was so phenomenal throughout the entire 53-54 campaign that he just couldn't be overlooked in the balloting. Even though Chicago was often defeated by big margins, Rollins never stopped trying or giving his best. Hockey writers around the National League circuit used to marvel at his scintillating play game after game. They were afraid that he might become vulcanized from stopping so much rubber."

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix, May 5, 1954
- Writers second-guess Rollins' Hart win.
- Elmer Ferguson of the Montreal Herald, the dean of NHL writers: "We can't remember when the experts made a more idiotic selection...if this sort of mawkish sentimental voting is to become a permanency, it's better we should scrap all the awards in the book and turn over their allocation to the league or the governors or the coaches."
- Baz O'Meara of the Montreal Star, another league veteran: "Our own preference was for Maurice Richard...nearly everyone thought Kelly would win the award but he has had plenty of awards and honors and awards this year."
- Red Burnett of the Toronto Daily Star: "It's just possible that Detroit's Red Kelly, Canadiens' Maurice Richard, and Leafs' Harry Lumley were more valuable to their teams than Rollins in the strict sense of the word...the hungry-looking six-foot-two native of Vanguard, Sask. rates the coveted Hart Trophy--maybe they should spell it "heart" in this case - for courage if nothing else."

I think Ferguson has the right of it when he says "mawkish sentimental voting". See the comment by Burnett - Rollins rates the Hart trophy for courage, maybe they should spell it "heart". Groan. And the comment in the Quebec article about Rollins who "never stopped trying or giving his best."

 

[seventieslord]

Strange anomaly that with these goalies having played a combined ~200 NHL seasons in the era of all-star teams and vezinas, and between them they only have one combined instance of being 3rd in voting for either honor.

 

[Professor What]

I mostly like the returning guys here. I'm not very impressed by most of the new bunch. Kolzig is probably the new guy that I like the most in a weak bunch. I really wanted to like Rollins, but the early posts don't really seem too positive on him. I guess this might be one of those cases where I have to square up what part of me wants to do and the reality. In reality, he starts off barely making my ballot.

I'm warming up a bit to Shesterkin. He's in my top 10 now, where he didn't make my initial list. I'm really torn on him. I can't deny the talent, but there's just not so much meat on the bone with experience. I'd feel better if someone could sell me more on his years in the KHL. As I said last thread, I don't want to punish him for something that politicians are to blame for. But man, unless I can feel like there are more than four years, I don't know.

 

[nabby12]

Very happy to see Evgeni Nabokov here!

I'm still pissed about him being robbed of the Vezina in 2008, even though he was named a First Team All Star, and finished seventh in Hart Trophy voting that year.

Will post a long-form story below that I did after I interviewed Nabby a few years back.

 

[nabby12]

Here's my long-form story on Evgeni Nabokov! Enjoy!

(This is still the greatest save of all time!! Still get chills when I watch it.)

Ust-Kamenogorsk is an industrial city of about 320,000 in Eastern Kazakhstan near the Chinese border.

The city is known for having a large ethnic Russian population and for their mining of minerals such as uranium and zinc. It is also the biggest hockey hotbed in all of Kazakhstan, producing by far more national team players over the years than any other Kazakh city, along with quite a few NHLers over the years.

The mining hub is also the home of Torpedo Ust-Kamenogorsk, Kazakhstan's most successful hockey club with a record of thirteen national championships since 1993.

Torpedo was founded in 1955 by Nikolay Konyakhin, a former player who once had experience playing for a youth team in Moscow. He came and introduced the sport to workers at the Ulba Metallurgical Plant in Ust-Kamenogorsk and they took to it immediately, training on the nearby Ulba River during the winter months. At that time, the factory workers were playing football and bandy on teams called Torpedo, so because of this the hockey team was also named Torpedo.

Ice Hockey took off immediately in Ust-Kamenogorsk and Torpedo dominated the Kazakh SSR and competed regularly with even the top Russian clubs for over thirty years. Even after the dissolution of the USSR in 1991 and despite losing many of its players and coaches to Russian teams, Torpedo still flourished and continued being the hockey powerhouse in Kazakhstan.

In 1998, Kazakhstan competed at the Winter Olympics in Nagano and knocked off teams such as Italy and Slovakia to advance to the quarter-finals, where they lost by only a 4-1 margin to Canada. The team consisted entirely of Torpedo players and was coached by Kazakh legend Boris Alexandrov, who is set to be inducted into the Builder category of the IIHF Hall of Fame in May. They were called by journalists during the event as "the team of one locker room."

Kazakhstan also skated at the 1998 World Juniors and pulled off one of the biggest upsets in hockey history when they dismantled Canada by a 6-3 score in the 7th place game. They were led by a young Nikolai Antropov, who would go on to star in the National Hockey League with the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Since then, Kazakhstan played at the 2006 Winter Olympics in Torino, Italy and fell one win short of the quarter-finals. They’ve been an elevator team at the men’s World Championships in recent years, going up and down from the top division to Division 1A.

Over the years, 10 players from Ust-Kamenogorsk have gone on to play in the NHL, while 23 have been drafted. Anton Khudobin of the Dallas Stars carries the Ust-Kamenogorsk torch in today’s NHL.

However, out of all the players to come out of Ust-Kamenogorsk, the most successful and well-known without a doubt is goaltender Evgeni Nabokov.

Evgeni was born in Ust-Kamenogorsk on July 25th, 1975. An only child to Viktor, who played eighteen seasons in Russia and Kazakhstan, and Tatyana, who worked as an engineer at a factory, Evgeni started playing hockey at the age of eight. He first started out as a defenceman and eventually made the decision to switch to goalie on his own. His dad said that one day he showed up at home after a road trip and discovered his son had full goaltender equipment sitting in his room. He made no attempts to talk him out of it.

As young Nabby was starting to show signs of potential in goal, it was his dad who took the time to train him and pass on his knowledge of the sport. When asked who had the biggest influence on Evgeni’s early hockey career, he always credits his father. In fact, the reason why Nabby wore the number 20 throughout his career is not because of the legendary Russia netminder Vladislav Tretiak, but because his father Viktor wore that number.

“My town is basically like any small town in Canada because people are that crazy about hockey,” Nabokov said. “Every little kid wanted to play hockey when I was growing up and I was no exception. My dad was a goalie and I spent a lot of time at the rink with him so that’s how I started.”

For a long time, Ust-Kamenogorsk was considered to be “Hockey Town Kazakhstan” and its hockey school in the town was considered to be one of the best in all of the Soviet Union. The goalie school in town, ran by Viktor Nabokov was no different. A long list of goalies that Viktor developed ended up playing pro hockey in Russia and a couple even made their way to the National Hockey League, his son Evgeni being one of them.

“It’s not only the goalie position though,” Evgeni says. “A lot of players came out of Ust-Kamenogorsk and a lot of my friends just didn’t play necessarily for the Russian teams, so that’s why not everyone is familiar with them. But we did have a goalie school that was run by my dad and all of us, Vitali Yeremeyev and Vadim Tarasov, and a few other guys were all around the same age and we had these goalie practices almost every week.”

“Like anything else, if you have people who want to put time into goaltending, you will see the results. I think that’s why you’ve seen those kind of results, because in Ust-Kamenogorsk people cared about goaltending. And it wasn’t just my dad, even though he was the guy who ran the goalie school. In order to have the practices, you need the ice and if nobody cares about the goalies, they’re not going to give you the ice time. In my town, people cared about it and gave us a lot of ice time, and because of that we were able to practice a lot.”

A common theme from goalies out of the Ust-Kamenogorsk goalie factory was a narrow stance and a more up-right hybrid style, most commonly seen by Nabokov, but also used by the likes of Anton Khudobin, Vitali Yeremeyev, Vitali Kolesnik, etc. When asked about it, Evgeni relays, “It was never really that we were told to do this or that, but you need to be comfortable. You have to feel the edges and back then, it was more of a stand-up style, so you needed to move on your feet very well and if your stance is really wide, it’s hard to move on your feet, so I think that’s where all that comes from. All of the drills we did involved lots of footwork and in order to be comfortable, if you stayed really wide in your stance, it was hard to do certain drills and I think later on it just came out like that because as kids we all worked greatly on our footwork.”

Nabokov played all of his minor and junior hockey for Torpedo Ust-Kamenogorsk. He started practicing and made his debut for the men’s team at just sixteen. “Just getting to practice with them at that early age definitely helped,” Evgeni recalled. “Obviously, the shots you faced were harder and more accurate than playing with the juniors so it kind of gave us an idea of what professional hockey was all about.”

It was around this time that Nabby started getting his first taste of international play.

“Vitali Yeremeyev and I both played for the Soviet Union national junior team up until 1992 when the Soviet Union separated into many different countries. After that, we kind of had no place to play internationally so we missed a year or two and then finally me and Vitali had the opportunity to play for Kazakhstan at the 1994 World Championships Group C.”

Nabokov was in goal for the Torpedo Ust-Kamenogorsk men’s team one night and played superb when the Kazakh squad pulled off an upset over Russian powerhouse Dynamo Moscow. They offered him an invitation to join the team, and because this was around the aftermath of the dissolution of the Soviet Union, it made it a little easier of a decision to leave home.

“We had such a great hockey town and again it happened in the years of the separation of the Soviet Union, things started happening. They kicked us out of the Soviet League, so we couldn’t play in Russia anymore and could only play in Kazakhstan, so a lot of players started leaving our town. I got an invitation to Dynamo Moscow and obviously with that type of club, that kind of history, it wasn’t that hard of a decision. My parents gave me the green light and in 1994 I left when I was nineteen years old, because it was time to move on and try to get better.”

After his last season with Torpedo Ust-Kamenogorsk, Nabokov was drafted by the San Jose Sharks in the ninth round (219th overall) at the 1994 NHL Entry Draft. He was drafted despite no one in the Sharks organization ever watching him in play in person or on tape. Tim Burke, a Sharks’ scout who was in Russia scouting a different goalie, saw Nabokov on an advertisement, and recognizing who his father was, remembered the name and got the team to draft him on a flier. Evgeni himself had no idea that he’d been drafted by an NHL team until months later when he was a member of Dynamo Moscow, sitting in a sauna minding his own business, when his coaches walked in with a newspaper that printed the draft list.

“Surprisingly I got drafted to the San Jose Sharks that same year I went to Dynamo. I got drafted late because I hadn’t been outside of Kazakhstan playing in years, the only time I got to play at the international stage in those years was at the 1994 World Championships, but that was in Group C, so not a lot of scouts were likely there. Because we were a new country, we had to go by the IIHF rules and go from Group C to Group B, Group B to Group, that kind of thing and it took a while to get back to the top group. I remember Slovakia was in the same boat as they had just split up from Czechoslovakia because I remember playing there against Ziggy Palffy and Miroslav Satan.”

Playing in Russia for Dynamo Moscow, Nabokov quickly became one of the top netminders playing in Europe. He won two Russian Championships in 1995 and 1996 and led his team to the 1997 European Club Championships. It was then in 1997, three years after being drafted by the San Jose Sharks that someone from the team reached out to him.

“It happened really quick. We won two Russian championships with Dynamo Moscow and had played in the Euro League finals and that’s when Wayne Thomas and John Ferguson Sr. flew in and that’s when they gave me a formal invitation to come over to the United States.”

“Back then in 1996 it wasn’t an easy choice. I loved it in Moscow, loved playing for Dynamo. Everything was so good, and they had started promising that I would have a chance to start playing for Team Russia. Today, it’s a different time. A lot of people speak English in Russia and they’re familiar with the NHL. When I was playing in Russia, no one knew much about the NHL. It wasn’t an easy choice, but after winning two championships, it was kind of time for the next challenge. I sat down with my parents, and me and my dad talked it out and we thought that I gotta give it a try because you don’t want you to look back later on in my career and wonder why we didn’t do this or that, so I decided to give it a try in North America.”

Nabokov came over to North America in the fall of 1997 and spent a couple of seasons with the San Jose Sharks minor league affiliates in Kentucky and Cleveland, learning the North American style of play and getting accustomed to life outside of Russia. He made his first NHL start on January 19th, 2000 when he went up against Patrick Roy and the Colorado Avalanche. After making 39 saves in a 0-0 shutout, the Sharks knew right there that they had their future number one goaltender. The next season when he became the Sharks full-time goalie and promptly won the Calder Trophy for the NHL rookie of the year, it only further cemented his status as the Sharks man between the pipes, even when they had a young Miikka Kiprusoff in their system as well.

“I think the first time I really felt I could play was in my 2000-01 rookie year in San Jose when Steve Shields got hurt and I had a chance to play a lot of games. After probably 10-15 games I started having this feeling that I can play here. My first game was something unbelievable (0-0 shutout vs. Colorado) and I will never forget that feeling. It was great, but it was still far away from thinking that I can play in the NHL. I knew that one-time things happen and it doesn’t mean anything.”

Although everything was going great for Nabokov early in his NHL career, he was having a problem in with the international side of things. He wanted to start representing Russia internationally, but the IIHF wouldn’t allow it because he had previously played for Kazakhstan. Evgeni was supposed to go and play for Russia at the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, but his passport and other documents just weren’t ready in time. He could have suited up at the 2004 World Cup for Russia if not for a knee surgery. Nabokov credits Slava Fetisov and Igor Kuperman for getting the ball rolling and helping him finally start representing Russia at the 2006 Torino Olympics.

During that 2006 Winter Olympics, Evgeni suited up for Team Russia in a round robin game against his home country of Kazakhstan. Facing him on the other end of the ice was his childhood friend Vitali Yeremeyev, who had a cup of coffee in the National Hockey League with the New York Rangers in 2001. As kids, the two used to train on the ice together at 7 a.m. and they were always very competitive in everything they did. That night, Yeremeyev shined for Kazakhstan and stopped 50 shots. He let just one shot go behind him and that was the difference as Nabby posted the shutout in a 1-0 win for Russia.

Nabokov ended up shutting out Team Canada as well 2-0 in the quarterfinals but fell in the semi-finals and Bronze Medal Game to finish 4th.

Regarding the game against his home country, Nabby said, “That was a really weird experience because the Kazakhstan team had so many players that I grew up with and played against as a kid. It was mixed emotions and a little bit weird to play against your boys like that.”

The big highlight of Nabby’s career came in 2008 when he joined Team Russia at the World Championships after the Sharks were eliminated from the playoffs. He played in five games, won them all, and played a big role in Russia winning their first gold medal at the Worlds since 1993. He was named the tournament’s best goaltender and was placed on the tournament all-star team.

“That was interesting because it happened after the second round series with Dallas when we lost in Game 6 in that long four overtime game and I wasn’t sure if I had the juice to go and play, but Vladislav Tretiak called and said basically that the team had a lot of injuries. I said well if you have an injury problem then absolutely I will come and try to help, but I had injuries myself! My ankle was hurt so I wasn’t feeling 100 percent, but I told him that up front and he said, ‘I don’t care. If you’re on one leg you still gotta come out’.”

“So off I went! Winning the gold medal was something I’ll never forget. The final against Canada and Kovalchuk’s goal to tie the game late in the third and then to win in overtime was amazing. But to be honest, right after the game, while the celebration was going on and everyone was so pumped, I had to go back to my hotel room for an hour or two to kind of settle down because I was so exhausted. After the guys were all done with the media stuff, I came out with the boys and we celebrated at some place in Quebec City. It was awesome!”

Another notable achievement for Nabokov is the fact that he’s one of three goalies in NHL history (Martin Brodeur and Braden Holtby being the others) to post three consecutive 40+ win seasons when he did so in San Jose from 2007 to 2010. Unfortunately, the Sharks were known for their failures in the playoffs and never advanced further than the Conference Finals in either of the three years.

By the time he moved on from San Jose, Nabokov became the leader in every goaltending category, including games played, wins, and shutouts. He is the best goalie by a mile in franchise history and its almost a given that he will get his number retired by the team at some point in the near future.

After spending a few seasons with the New York Islanders and the Tampa Bay Lightning, Nabokov retired from the NHL at the age of 39 after fourteen seasons in the league. He finished with 353 wins and 59 shutouts which are both in the top-20 all-time for each category.

When asked about what the other big moments that he puts up there with his World Championship, “To me it’s pretty much every playoff game and every series we won, it was a big accomplishment. Going to the conference finals twice, I still think it’s an accomplishment, but it sucks we weren’t able to win a Stanley Cup with a team that was so ready to win one and we were probably a favourite some years. Somehow, we just didn’t do it and it’s kind of sad.”

Evgeni Nabokov is 49 now and living back in San Jose, where he employed as the goaltending coach for the San Jose Sharks. Despite living in California year-round, Nabokov has never forgotten his roots. He still goes back to Moscow in the summer, and back home to Ust-Kamenogorsk to visit his parents and grandparents who still live in the town.

The adjustment from goalie to goalie coach is never easy, but Nabby is enjoying every minute of his new job.

“I love it. I wasn’t sure how it was going to be. I took it kind of slowly at first, but I love being in hockey, talking hockey, sharing certain things with the goalies and also learning from them. That’s another big thing – you learn, because when you play in goal you usually are stuck with what you have, and you play your style, but now as a coach, you’re way more open to look at stuff and watch more video of the other goaltending styles and that’s been a good lesson for me.”

 

[jigglysquishy]

Some thoughts as we get into this round, which is likely our third last round.

Roach and Shesterkin are two names that stick out to me where they had a multi year run of real greatness. Roach climbed a lot for me looking at playoffs and will contend for #1 for me this round.

Thomas has been this forum's whipping boy but looks really good this round. This round has lots of guys who flirted a year or two as a top goalie but were primarily okay to good starters for their career. Thomas peak on peak compares strongly to Nabokov and Kolzig and Miller.

I'll take a dive at Vernon next week but his playoff resume is very strong for this group.

I've been sour on Fleury, but will absolutely take him ahead of Miller and Kolzig and Nabokov. His longevity stands out in a pretty significant way.

Kerr stands out strongly too. As does Rask.

All the reading I've done on Rollins is not painting a picture of a goalie to be ranked this week.

Giacomin has been at the bottom of my lists for a while now but will start fighting for middle rankings.

Cheevers and Chabot still likely NRs.

Dzurilla and Paton would fit in well this week.

Every week the goalies get weaker and weaker but there's a noticeable dropoff this week.

 

[Felidae]

I'd take Vokoun over a couple of these names, especially when comparing RS and the teams he was on as opposed to these other goalies.

Of course, the most glaring hole in his resume is his non-existent playoff record (through no fault of his own really), which probably contributed to his lack of Vezina votes.

 

[VanIslander]

Has outstanding quickness and lateral mobility. An aggressive butterfly-style goalie, he's capable of making highlight-reel saves look routine. Has proven to be able to lead a team deep in the playoffs, and make clutch saves.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Boys, sorry for being absent the last little bit (or, "you're welcome" to some others haha). Had some minor pro consulting stuff to work on and had to squeeze a move in there, which was a bear. (Plus another potentially major life event that put a heavy pressure on moving) My apologies. I didn't vote last round because I didn't have a chance to see what everyone had said the last few pages of the thread and didn't want to just vote down party (my) lines...

Let's see what we're working with...

Fleury is overdue at this point given these names. I laid out the case for him in the previous round. He is clearly better than Barrasso, the idea that there's now a gap between them is tough to swallow.

Giacomin and Cheevers aren't of much interest still, especially the latter.

Olaf Kolzig - I had him in the mid 40's around other positionally sound guys that didn't have a lot of mobility like Cory Schneider and Don Edwards. I'd take the reliable positioning and less pucks going through you nature of Kolzig (and that ilk) over more scrambly guys like the Fuhr/Vernon/Barrasso types.

Ryan Miller - On one hand, someone like Barrasso is on the list mopping up some weak-time Vezina votes...and by that logic, Ryan Miller should never be up. On the other hand, Ryan Miller was a very good goalie in a pretty tough spot and that's part of the reason why he didn't get the votes. He played in the flavor-of-the-week goalie time, so guys that could consistently bring the goods were punished over those who could get hot for a couple months in defensive situations. I had Miller up there with Nabokov inside the top 40. He's a test for the group, I'll be curious to see what gets made of him.

Evgeni Nabokov - I've always had time for Nabokov because he's one of the last hybrid guys around. That got talked about in nabby's story of him too which was nice to see get touched on. Right on the money with the narrow stance talk. He had talent. He's also not innocent in the Sharks playoff failures over the years.

Tuukka Rask - I'm legitimately surprised he's not on the list already. And then looking back, he got no support. If he stays behind guys like Giacomin and Richter this round, I'm not sure what to make of that. That would be a tragedy though...those guys aren't remotely close to him and flamed out in much shorter order. Lafayette goes bar down instead of bar and out, Richter's probably about one top-80 list. Two? And that's a guy competing with Rask? Meh...

I see there's some talk about Rask's consistency...but guys like Liut, Barrasso, and Rayner all got a pass and they were more inconsistent and less technically skilled. I can't figure out what's holding Rask back, but if it prevents Thomas from making the list at all, then I'll support it haha

Mike Richter - He wasn't in my top 60. I just don't really understand the case besides the prevailing '94 Rangers" bump. Beezer was better in the early 90's. Richter single-handedly blew the '92 Patrick Division Final against a temporarily-66-less Penguins team by letting the goal up from center to Francis that completely changed the series. If Richter, why not...I don't know...Jaroslav Halak or Guy Hebert? ...or Mike Vernon...?

John Ross Roach - This is probably on me for missing the end of the discussion last round, so I'll have to pick that up...but I recall doing a good deal of research on JRR vs. Connell and I thought JRR came out notably ahead of Connell in terms of contemporary praise. Not sure if that was overturned in this version, I'll have to go back and look.

Al Rollins - Played like Giacomin, but had even worse staying power. Does he have more games played in the minors than the NHL? I feel like it's gotta be close. That should tell us plenty.

Igor Shestyorkin - I think I went to bat for him already. It's very, very clear that we can stomach four relevant seasons. Like I had hinted at before, too, I don't think the Rangers get enough discredit for what a mess they are as a team/defensively. That makes his performance all the more noteworthy. Four bangers blows most of this list out of the water. Strong contention for #1 this round for me. Very strong.

Tim Thomas - No real strong case for him over Roman Cechmanek still.

Mike Vernon - I get more pushback on him than most, but I'm not entirely sure he's this much worse than Fuhr/Barrasso. That said, I'd rather not compound problems. With those 80's guys, it's more of a race to the bottom than a hurry-up-and-place them situation.

I wished Meloche or Bouchard was here instead.

Is there requests for some film work on anyone in particular? I should be able to squeeze a couple of those in this round in the two-week window.

 

[Professor What]

Al Rollins - Played like Giacomin, but had even worse staying power. Does he have more games played in the minors than the NHL? I feel like it's gotta be close. That should tell us plenty.

According to hockey-reference, yes he does. They credit him with 430 NHL games, and I tallied 462 minor league games, if I figured it all right. (I was trying not to include junior games.)

Is there requests for some film work on anyone in particular? I should be able to squeeze a couple of those in this round in the two-week window.

Is there much on Rollins while we're talking about him? I think his Hart record probably had me initially impressed more than I should have been. I'd like to see Roach too, but I'm not going to hold my breath for footage from the 20s and 30s.

Also, if you don't mind another request, if you can find anything from Shesterkin's time in the KHL so that we can evaluate the quality of that play, that would be nice. I hate to keep repeating myself, but I'm at such a loss at how to credit that.