HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 1

[Dr John Carlson]

Procedure

• In this vote, you will be presented with 8 players based on their ranking in the Round 1 aggregate list
• Players will be listed in alphabetical order to avoid creating bias
• You will submit eight names in a ranked order, #1 through #8, without ties via PM to both @Dr John Carlson and @Professor What
• Use the same private message thread every week rather than starting a new PM
• Results of this vote will be posted after each voting cycle, but the individual ballots themselves will remain secret until the completion of this project
• The top 5 players will be added to the final list (unless a very large break exists at the spot between 4&5 or 5&6)
• Lists of players eligible for voting will grow as the project continues
• Voting threads will continue until we have added 60 names to the list, for a total of 12 voting threads

Eligible Voters

• Ballots from voters who have submitted an approved Round 1 ranking of 80 goaltenders (which was used to shape the aggregate list) will have their votes tabulated in the final ranking
• These voters are: @nabby12, @overpass, @frisco, @Professor What, @DN28, @jigglysquishy, @tony d, @rmartin65, @Vilica, @bobholly39, @The Pale King, @blogofmike, @Dr John Carlson, @MXD, @Michael Farkas, @ContrarianGoaltender, @VanIslander, @seventieslord, @Weztex

Guidelines

• Respect each other. No horseplay or sophistry!
• Please refrain from excessive use of the 'laughing' reaction to indicate disagreement
• Stay on topic and don't get caught up in talking about non-eligible players
• Participate, but retain an open mind throughout the discussion
• Do not speculate who cast any particular ballot. Do not make judgments about the mindset of whoever cast that particular ballot. All individual ballots will be revealed at the end of the project
• Anybody may participate in the discussion, whether they submitted a list or not

House Rules

• Any attempts to derail a discussion thread with disrespect to old-time hockey will be met with frontier justice
• Take a drink when someone mentions the number of hockey registrations in a given era
• Finish your drink when someone mentions that wins are a team stat

The actual voting period will open up on Friday, October 4th at midnight and continue through Sunday, October 6th at 11:59 PM Eastern time. I will release the results of the vote the morning of Monday, October 7th, at which point the next voting thread will begin.


Vote 1 Candidates

• Martin Brodeur
• Ken Dryden
• Glenn Hall
• Dominik Hasek
• Jacques Plante
• Patrick Roy
• Terry Sawchuk
• Vladislav Tretiak

Click to read more...

 

[bobholly39]

So I decided a few years ago I slot Patrick Roy above Dominik Hasek for #1.

I'm of the opinion that - you can argue that at his very best, Hasek may have been the best at "stopping the pucks". In fact, he probably has the better regular season between the 2, possibly a few of them, and possibly the best seasons ever by a goalie. But Patrick Roy's playoffs are tremendous. 3 conn smythes - huge impact in 1996 too - most wins/games ever by a goalie in the playoffs by a huge amount.

I'm open to considering Hasek for #1, but I think in the end his NHL career was simply too short, and his NHL playoffs are good, but not great. Is Hasek even top 5 all-time for NHL playoffs as a goalie? How about simply top 10?

 

[The Pale King]

Here we go gang. For some reason I thought this was going to be the 70-80 ranked goalies first. Wasn't prepped to be going in on the big boys from the start. This is probably the vote where we'll see the least change from past projects, still curious to see everyone's methodology here.

Everytime I come back to this tier, I want to include Brodeur closer to the top, it just feels weird to have so many of the 90s guys at the absolute top. My top two are Hasek and Roy, but on certain days... Marty is right there.

I really like Glenn Hall, but other than the 90s guys, Dryden is by far the goalie here I am most familiar with (in terms of footage, quotes, mindset etc).

Side note that you can ignore: I'm probably one of the only folks in this cafe in Zaragoza, Es on my phone on a message board talking about all time ice-hockey goalie rankings, unless that's you across the way drinking a ratafia with the pith helmet, Farkas?

Thanks for the great work so far DJC.

 

[bobholly39]

Here we go gang. For some reason I thought this was going to be the 70-80 ranked goalies first. Wasn't prepped to be going in on the big boys from the start. This is probably the vote where we'll see the least change from past projects, still curious to see everyone's methodology here.

Everytime I come back to this tier, I want to include Brodeur closer to the top, it just feels weird to have so many of the 90s guys at the absolute top. My top two are Hasek and Roy, but on certain days... Marty is right there.

I really like Glenn Hall, but other than the 90s guys, Dryden is by far the goalie here I am most familiar with (in terms of footage, quotes, mindset etc).

Side note that you can ignore: I'm probably one of the only folks in this cafe in Zaragoza, Es on my phone on a message board talking about all time ice-hockey goalie rankings, unless that's you across the way drinking a ratafia with the pith helmet, Farkas?

Thanks for the great work so far DJC.

That whole time the preliminary thread was up, I wanted to make a post/argument as to why Martin Brodeur should be considered for #1. And I thought about it this morning too after this new thread was up.

My problem is - I can't seem to find a rational way to slot him above both Hasek and Roy that makes sense and is logical.

But I think a goalie's job more than anything is to be reliable enough to give your a chance a team to win. A game, a season, in the playoffs...and Martin Brodeur was a reliable #1 goalie for longer than anyone in history. I think that has tremendous value.

I'd be very open to hearing someone's argumennt as to having him leapfrog either/or of Hasek or Roy.

 

[Professor What]

So I decided a few years ago I slot Patrick Roy above Dominik Hasek for #1.

I'm of the opinion that - you can argue that at his very best, Hasek may have been the best at "stopping the pucks". In fact, he probably has the better regular season between the 2, possibly a few of them, and possibly the best seasons ever by a goalie. But Patrick Roy's playoffs are tremendous. 3 conn smythes - huge impact in 1996 too - most wins/games ever by a goalie in the playoffs by a huge amount.

I'm open to considering Hasek for #1, but I think in the end his NHL career was simply too short, and his NHL playoffs are good, but not great. Is Hasek even top 5 all-time for NHL playoffs as a goalie? How about simply top 10?

Where I agree with you: I think Hasek was the best at stopping pucks. Looked weird doing it at times, but it got the job done, and better than anyone else, imo.

Also, I agree that I'd take Hasek for regular season and Roy for playoffs. I believe I've probably said that on this board in the past.

Where I disagree: Hasek's NHL career was too short? At the most critical we can get, it lasted 13 seasons. And that's disregarding a couple of seasons where, while backing up Belfour. Btw, having a choice between Belfour and Hasek is a rich man's choice, and losing out early on to Belfour isn't the worst thing ever. He's 25 in games played in NHL history among goalies and 17th in wins. Those should show that he had long enough longevity without his Czechoslovakian career, where he was already considered quite good (danged Iron Curtain!)

Also, I think we have to consider team quality when we talk about the playoffs. As I said, I take Roy for the playoffs. There's no arguing with 3 Conn Smythes. But I think it would be a bit closer if they both had the same team quality. Hasek simply didn't have that until he got to Detroit.

Anyway, I'll have some more coming on these guys in general later. Glad to see we're moving on to this stage though.

 

[Michael Farkas]

As one of the biggest Brodeur backers here, I can't justify him being #1. I've tried to figure a way to get him there, I can't get him there.

This is probably the first and last time the available goalies will largely line up with my original list. The only player that's a little too far out there for me is Dryden - who was 15th on my list.

The recent guys for me go:
Roy
Brodeur
Hasek

The O6 guys go:
Plante
Sawchuk
Hall

But they're all fairly close. I was pleasantly surprised by Sawchuk. Even late career.

But when you're way up here, there's basically a case for any order. Everyone here basically did their own thing too.

Hall was an early butterfly guy...eventually Roy took that to another level.
Plante really took the position to another place, he really played the angles well, he challenged guys, he was playing the puck. Eventually those principles ended up with Brodeur - who was one of the few legit hybrid goalies out there. These two are probably the two smartest goalies in history too.

Sawchuk had that low crouch as a way to find pucks. Sort of bigger, looming figure. Even though I don't think his vitals suggest it, he played like a big goalie.

Hasek sort of did his own thing, but there was a method to it. He stopped guys from low angles better than some guys who remained upright. He really understood vertical angles and attacked the puck in a very unique way.

My previous post on Tretiak vs Dryden:

Ok...re: Dryden/Tretiak.

I'm having a bit of difficulty with the 70s, as I mentioned. Here's where I'm at. I'm not gonna over-think it too much because I'm just one panelist in a sea of other panelists...

Hockey Sense: About even. Both are terrific play readers. They take calculated risks, but their heads are in the game and it shows in their positioning, reads, anticipation of dangerous shooters. Both have high end hockey sense. Effectively, a draw.

Technical skill: I think Tretiak has better form. I think he keeps better posture when moving post to post. I like the direction of his rebounds slightly better. I like his stick positioning slightly better. I also like him to have less holes through him than Dryden in their standup and pad stack save selections. Dryden probably has the better glove. Nod to Tretiak.

Skating: I think this is Tretiak by a decent margin. I think Dryden moves well for his size. But Tretiak is more agile, quicker, and more importantly for this era, better balance. This allows him to stay in flurry situation more aptly and he's less likely to lose his angles on big pushes across the net mouth. Advantage Tretiak.

Compete: Again, Tretiak. Sometimes bigger guys get unfairly labeled as lazy. I don't find Dryden lazy. I just think the second-shot competitiveness and the battle belongs to Tretiak by a decent gap.

Floor/Ceiling: More or less a wash. Dryden slightly higher floor, slightly lower ceiling. Tretiak slightly lower floor, slightly higher ceiling. Both have higher floor and ceilings than most goalies I'm finding of this era.

My only question is does Tretiak do enough for me to make my "A" list...Dryden doesn't. I think he's going to be comfortably on my "B" list. Tretiak is on my A/B fence right now.

But I fully expect Tretiak to be ranked ahead of Dryden on my list.

Tretiak did make my A list. Dryden did not.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Very excited to get this project started.

The first 8 up is the "canon" 8. How confident are we that the top 8 should be the same top 8 as 12 years ago? It's 6 birthyears representing 3 eras. I guess we will wait until another name comes up.

I'll be voting Hasek first, but I think it'll be close.

Going strictly by contemporary opinion, Hasek is king. That multiyear run where the public consensus was that he was the best player in the world (or close to it) is hard to beat.

I recently rewatched the CSSR/Canada semi final game from 1987. Hasek is a baby but does a good job of dealing with the Canadian onslaught. For being 7 years pre NHL, he looks really good.