Hockeyprospect.com draft rankings. (Viggo Bjorck #1 edition) | Page 4 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Hockeyprospect.com draft rankings. (Viggo Bjorck #1 edition)

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Is this an actual thing you believe????
Yes--and I admit my beliefs are biased. There is a good deal of research (which tries to be objective, but is subject to the biases of the researchers) demonstrating that everything from eyewitness testimony to in-person job interviews are unreliable due to the imperfect way we all process information.

An important caveat is that unreliable doesn't mean worthless or even wrong-headed. It mostly means that relying on either can lead to less than optimal outcomes, so additional steps need to be included in the process. I am sure the more successful scouts/scouting departments understand that they can't be "non-biased" and try to minimize the biases that reduce the ability to accurately assess future success.

The less successful scouts rely on "I know what I see," or "I haven't felt this strongly in years" about a prospect.
 
You're forgetting the "herd" dynamics, echo-chambers, thought bubbles, etc...
Most of those exist where there is a differential in power. Different types of group think typically occur because individuals are concerned that challenging a leader's opinion or the culture will cause them to suffer. Advertising and, more recently, social media create echo-chambers. But those dynamics are typically not at play in something like hockey scouting. There is actually more benefit to an individual scout/service from lowering the ranking on a Yakupov or having Wyatt Johnston in the top 5. Although, even if one service had both Yakupov and Johnston at 4 that doesn't mean that service is non-biased.

As has been mentioned multiple times, NHL teams' actual draft boards are disparate, which would argue against signficant herd dynamics.
 
His floor is higher than Mckenna's, but his ceiling is likely lower I agree. He's short but he's not slight and plays bigger than his size. Hockey strong, smart, responsible, and extremely competitive on the puck. His realistic floor is that of a 2 way middle 6C IMO, the type of guy champions are built around.
You could have just said “He is Viggo!! You are like the buzzing of flies to him!!”
 
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Most of those exist where there is a differential in power. Different types of group think typically occur because individuals are concerned that challenging a leader's opinion or the culture will cause them to suffer. Advertising and, more recently, social media create echo-chambers. But those dynamics are typically not at play in something like hockey scouting. There is actually more benefit to an individual scout/service from lowering the ranking on a Yakupov or having Wyatt Johnston in the top 5. Although, even if one service had both Yakupov and Johnston at 4 that doesn't mean that service is non-biased.

As has been mentioned multiple times, NHL teams' actual draft boards are disparate, which would argue against signficant herd dynamics.

Teams' draft boards are more disparate than the public scout lists. I'm saying it's the public scout lists where the groupthink is more prevalent list to list.

And you can have groupthink in egalitarian settings. It's not rare.
 
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If Bjorck ended up the top player from this draft it would surprise me 0%. He absolutely belongs in the McKenna/Stenberg tier for me, those are the three top forwards in this draft for my money.
I think people need to get over the whole "size thing" this isn't basketball ffs. So many smaller forwards have shown that narrative is dumb, strength and balls is what matters, not height and he has both to go along with a shitload of talent and hockey IQ.
Maybe this is a lazy comparison but he reminds me of Marner with his skill and puck hounding and I would love for the nucks to draft him.
 
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The size doesn’t matter narrative is silly.
If you had 2 exact same players but one was 5’9 160 pounds and the other was 6’3 225 pounds which one do you choose? All things equal you take the bigger one.

Size matters, to what extent is the question.
 
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It's only people in the Leafs fan echo-chamber who are shocked by a draft list like this.
No one who his praising this list had Bjork at 1, and most who like it still seem quite surprised he's at 1. Whenever the season ends (regular and first couple playoff rounds) everyone gets board and over analyzes the draft based on lists and maybe clips to form their opinion in a bubble. If the Leafs weren't picking first maybe you'd be as shocked as most people are when a guy not ranked 1 all year on any list, ends up 1 on a final list like this or a Craig Button
.

If the Leafs take Bjork one, I'd be fine with it, I don't follow these players enough to pretend to really know like a lot of posters here. I would still maybe be a bit disappointed if we had the opportunity to, but didn't trade to 3 and grab an asset and our choice of whoever remains if the grouping is that tight. Whether I agree with the ranking or not, I know these guys do put in the leg work, which is more than you can say for most non-NHL-team-lists. This list would definitely ease my worries a tiny bit if they did take him there.

I have a feeling the people saying the list is good and Bjork at 1 is a good ranking, will be saying something very different in the Bjork prospect thread IF the Leafs do take him 1st.
 
No one who his praising this list had Bjork at 1, and most who like it still seem quite surprised he's at 1.

I am surprised Bjorck is at #1 here but not shocked.

Scouts have been telling us how tight it is.

A lot of the folks who are shocked and upset about it seem to be those in a certain fanbase-bubble where one prospect is supposedly far ahead of the rest.

Whenever the season ends (regular and first couple playoff rounds) everyone gets board and over analyzes the draft based on lists and maybe clips to form their opinion in a bubble. If the Leafs weren't picking first maybe you'd be as shocked as most people

You think it's an anti-Leafs thing. We've seen this before with other big fanbases when they have the top pick, they get latched on to one guy and feel upset when people think differently. It's not new to the Leafs.
 
The size doesn’t matter narrative is silly.
If you had 2 exact same players but one was 5’9 160 pounds and the other was 6’3 225 pounds which one do you choose? All things equal you take the bigger one.

Size matters, to what extent is the question.
But that's the problem, all things aren't equal between big guys and small guys. Being big has it's advantages, especially for defenseman, but there is also a cost to being big (especially for forwards who rely and quickness and elusiveness) and there are benefits to being small. Small guys are quicker, more agile, lower to the ground, harder to hit, and can operate in tighter spaces. They are also often stronger on their sticks because their sticks are shorter, and they are able to create leverage with their lower center of gravity.
 
No one who his praising this list had Bjork at 1, and most who like it still seem quite surprised he's at 1. Whenever the season ends (regular and first couple playoff rounds) everyone gets board and over analyzes the draft based on lists and maybe clips to form their opinion in a bubble. If the Leafs weren't picking first maybe you'd be as shocked as most people are when a guy not ranked 1 all year on any list, ends up 1 on a final list like this or a Craig Button
.

If the Leafs take Bjork one, I'd be fine with it, I don't follow these players enough to pretend to really know like a lot of posters here. I would still maybe be a bit disappointed if we had the opportunity to, but didn't trade to 3 and grab an asset and our choice of whoever remains if the grouping is that tight. Whether I agree with the ranking or not, I know these guys do put in the leg work, which is more than you can say for most non-NHL-team-lists. This list would definitely ease my worries a tiny bit if they did take him there.

I have a feeling the people saying the list is good and Bjork at 1 is a good ranking, will be saying something very different in the Bjork prospect thread IF the Leafs do take him 1st.

This has nothing to do with the Leafs.
 
If the Leafs weren't picking first maybe you'd be as shocked as most people are when a guy not ranked 1 all year on any list, ends up 1 on a final list like this or a Craig Button
It's not unprecedented. Nico Hischier (who shares a lot in common with Bjorck) ended up going first, coming out of nowhere in much the same way.
 
There are 244 pages of content in the report this year and yes they charge for it. I am not shilling for Hockey Prospects but I have yet to talk to anyone who has purchased their annual reports that doesn’t feel their team puts in the work even if they don’t agree with every ranking.

Honestly not everyone geeks out over studying the drafts and researching the prospects so paid content isn’t for everyone but if you are then this report has lots of detail.

Totally agree. I was a bit worried when seeing the volatility in ranking (Bjorck from 12 to 1 and Malhotra from 13 to 2) but decided to buy the report anyway. As it turns out, the write-up's and analysis are as detailed and thoughtful as I could've hoped for. Thanks for the great work!

Even though I can't see any team picking Bjorck #1, it is not difficult to understand their rationale. It's no secret that Bjorck plays great and if he's 6-1 he could be a consensus #1. So if you believe that his size is not going to matter, then he may indeed be the best pick in this year's draft. It is a gutsy call (others would be cautious and just put him in the top 3), but if we look back at the past, teams would've loved to make the gutsy call to pick Makar or Quinn Hughes.

(btw, it has been reported that Sundin is close to Bjorck's family, not Stenberg's, during the world championship. Though it doesn't appear that's the direction the Leafs are going into).

The report has also provided a lot of deep insights on McKenna, Stenberg, and Reid: the dilemma of McKenna ("the most remarkable passer we have ever scouted" or "Almost every scout I asked after February had McKenna number one but a lot of them said that they don’t have to actually select him either” vs all the well-publicized warts), the concern of "what you see is what you get" in Stenberg, and the defensive lapses of Reid. Best of all are the quotes from NHL scouts, which I can pit against those quotes from the elite prospect report.


An opinion by definition is biased. The cliche is correct, scouting is an art not a science. Therefore anyone who watches a player forms an opinion based on his biases.

The analytic crowd comes closer to non-biased opinions by using some objective measures/statistical comparisons. But even those can be biased by the situation/quality of opposition/quality of teammates.

Consensus rankings are as close to "non-biased" as you are going to find in any scoutning community because the biases should balance out with a large enough pool of opinions.

This really hits the nail on the head. At the end of the end of the day, it is subjective in a scout's belief whether the weaknesses can be overcome in the NHL (or in the NHL playoffs). For Bjorck, it is his size and lack of dynamic skating; for McKenna, it is his physical engagement/compete, for Reid it is his defence. We often hear how scouts belonging to an NHL team arguing over one another (e.g., Stenberg vs Malhotra in Vancouver). But what is most valuable is not really the respective rankings, but the analyses behind the differences in opinions even when you don't agree with the ranking.
 
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I don’t see how “click bait” as many are calling this helps Hockey Prospects. If anything, backed by the negativity and “click bait” claims here shows a more negative reaction to the publicized ratings that might make people less likely to buy the product.
That said, I used to get HP’s black book each year as I love the scouts’ notes and found them really good at finding players who other scouting “experts” missed like Knies and Cowan. There were some misses too like Tristan Robbins. I only stopped buying it because it was one of the more expensive (yet thorough) guides out there, and my financial position changed a little. I buy the Elite Prospects service for June only, and McKeens, along with the Athletic (Pronman and Wheeler) in addition to watching lots of You Tube hockey prospect videos now.
 
Do people know they can easily go look through HP's past top 32 rankings?? They have a prettttty spotless record of lining up their year end rankings with how NHL orgs end up drafting come the real thing. We don't have to embarrass ourselves with 'clickbait' comments like this lmao
 
Dahlin is a top 5 defenseman in the NHL. Hughes is mabe slightly better? But not much of a difference if there is any. Bjorck simply has a more limited ceiling than either Mckenna or Stenberg while his floor is also limited about as much as them due to being a sub 5"10 center who isn't an elite skater.

I disagree. I think Bjorck has the greatest ceiling, and the highest floor of the group.
 
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It seems they overcompensated the other way. Usually they rate international skaters lower.

I remember them having Leo Carlsson (who went 2nd overall) ranked #6 in the 2023 draft which was a hot take at the time as well - and looks to be the wrong rankings so far.
 
It seems they overcompensated the other way. Usually they rate international skaters lower.

I remember them having Leo Carlsson (who went 2nd overall) ranked #6 in the 2023 draft which was a hot take at the time as well - and looks to be the wrong rankings so far.

No, they didn't. That's there final board from that year.
 

No, they didn't. That's there final board from that year.

Oh, never mind that was some eliteprospect ranking.

How’s the track record of these guys? It seems every ranking has Stenberg below McKenna. When McKenna drops, Stenberg drops even lower.
 

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