Speculation: Hockey Ops Roulette (The Chayka Syndrome)

[Gwyddbwyll]

It's not just the drafting, I remember St.Louis killing it on pick/prospect trading, particularly the latter as it's not common.

Didnt they effectively trade Rundblad for Tarasenko? That was a huge win.

 

[Name Nameless]

Team entirely given up on that first next year? I mean, no complaints filed, no hope for it?

 

[Canis Latrans]

Team entirely given up on that first next year? I mean, no complaints filed, no hope for it?

I think it was indicated they couldn't appeal, but I see no reason not to. At worst the league can just shut it down right away. I assume they'll lobby more for it now that they've hired a GM and the draft has passed. I think you just need some distance from the affected events before you tactfully go in and argue your case. Scouting is likely covering all pick ranges in case of trades anyway, so their job remains the same. I think ownership will pursue it at some point into next season.

 

[Mosby]

There is also the possibility of getting a first rounder or some sort of compensation from NJ for poaching Chayka.

 

[RABBIT]

There is also the possibility of getting a first rounder or some sort of compensation from NJ for poaching Chayka.

Probably ain’t gonna happen we’ve heard little to nothing about this

 

[rt]

Everyone who was guilty has been sent out. What’s the point of punishing an inexperienced and struggling ownership group? They dumped everyone and brought in a whole new staff. How doesn’t that satisfy the league?

 

[Mosby]

We'll probably just get a bunch of Wendy's coupons.

 

[Jagged Ice]

It's bullsh!t with all those involved gone but I don't expect any appeal possible as long as AM was owner at the time of the activity. I'm sure AM didn't have a clue it was happening.

 

[rt]

If this is supposed to set a precedent to strike fear into the hearts of executives to prevent them from doing this kind of thing in the future, doesn't firing every single person involved set that precedent? I feel like this punishment would make sense if we wanted to keep the guilty parties. But we fired them all. So why the extra?

 

[Jagged Ice]

Exactly

 

[cobra427]

There is also the possibility of getting a first rounder or some sort of compensation from NJ for poaching Chayka.

I also wonder about the Hall trade? Were there any conversations going on then about Chayka moving? That looks like a great deal for NJ now. Coyotes should get compensation for that if they were having conversations. This is exactly why there are rules in place about tampering.

On the surface, the trade looks fair, we gave up some decent value for Hall. We all worried about giving away young talent/picks for 1 year of Hall given we have no future picks and haven't been a playoff team. It seems to me not enough time past from that trade to NJ trying to hire Chayka. I will bet AM is screaming to the NHL about it now.

 

[Name Nameless]

I also wonder about the Hall trade? Were there any conversations going on then about Chayka moving? That looks like a great deal for NJ now. Coyotes should get compensation for that if they were having conversations. This is exactly why there are rules in place about tampering.

On the surface, the trade looks fair, we gave up some decent value for Hall. We all worried about giving away young talent/picks for 1 year of Hall given we have no future picks and haven't been a playoff team. It seems to me not enough time past from that trade to NJ trying to hire Chayka. I will bet AM is screaming to the NHL about it now.

This is the kind of stupid trade that happens every year somewhere though.

How many here was against it? Not many.

 

[AZviaNJ]

I also wonder about the Hall trade? Were there any conversations going on then about Chayka moving? That looks like a great deal for NJ now. Coyotes should get compensation for that if they were having conversations. This is exactly why there are rules in place about tampering.

On the surface, the trade looks fair, we gave up some decent value for Hall. We all worried about giving away young talent/picks for 1 year of Hall given we have no future picks and haven't been a playoff team. It seems to me not enough time past from that trade to NJ trying to hire Chayka. I will bet AM is screaming to the NHL about it now.

In hindsight there's no way they give up a 1st in the Hall trade (therefore, likely no trade) if they knew they were losing a 1st/2nd due to workoutgate.

 

[RABBIT]

I don’t think we will see any recovered assets from what we lost, even if we did try to appeal. Since this was basically the first time this has come to light in NHL history, they wanted to set an example.

If the example is “hey, we’re going to take away a couple high draft picks unless you fire everyone involved” that’s not exactly enforcing a rule. That’s exposing a loophole to base any future violations off of. If another team gets caught doing the same thing, they can just turn around and say that they’ll fire everyone like the Coyotes did.

It sucks. Part of me thinks that even though they want to enforce the rule, that since we were the first ones do it, maybe after we handled business on our side they could show us a little leniency. Sort of like a “from now on, this is the standard” message to the rest of the league. I just don’t see it happening. We are not a favored franchise among the league. We have already been taken care of by the league when they stepped in during our ownership void. If they show us any remorse, that pisses off the other 30 teams all over again.

 

[rt]

I don’t think we will see any recovered assets from what we lost, even if we did try to appeal. Since this was basically the first time this has come to light in NHL history, they wanted to set an example.

If the example is “hey, we’re going to take away a couple high draft picks unless you fire everyone involved” that’s not exactly enforcing a rule. That’s exposing a loophole to base any future violations off of. If another team gets caught doing the same thing, they can just turn around and say that they’ll fire everyone like the Coyotes did.

It sucks. Part of me thinks that even though they want to enforce the rule, that since we were the first ones do it, maybe after we handled business on our side they could show us a little leniency. Sort of like a “from now on, this is the standard” message to the rest of the league. I just don’t see it happening. We are not a favored franchise among the league. We have already been taken care of by the league when they stepped in during our ownership void. If they show us any remorse, that pisses off the other 30 teams all over again.

But these scandals would never be at the directive of an ownership group. Meaning that it’s not much of a loophole for a GM if it means you’re fired. That’s like saying suicide by hanging in a jail cell is a loophole for state ordered lethal injection. It’s technically true, but effectively the same.

 

[RABBIT]

But these scandals would never be at the directive of an ownership group. Meaning that it’s not much of a loophole for a GM if it means you’re fired.

agreed, it would take unique circumstances for this to happen again (if at all) but I don’t think the NHL wants to even open the realm of possibility. They took this as a pretty serious offense as we can see. I doubt they will let up even if we make a strong case that everybody involved has been let go.

My main point - I think they will experience more backlash if they step in to help us yet again. I don’t think they wanna open that door, either.

 

[cobra427]

In hindsight there's no way they give up a 1st in the Hall trade (therefore, likely no trade) if they knew they were losing a 1st/2nd due to workoutgate.

I’m not saying it wasn’t a fair trade for both teams at the time. I just think it’s odd that we were the high bid and Chayka leaves within 6 months for NJ while still under contract . Was there any talk with Chayka about coming to NJ before the time of the trade? If so, that is tampering. It depends on what was said or in any emails.

 

[Schemp]

I still think that next year's 1st was imposed to make sure we do all the right things. Now the tampering charges are intriguing. Chayka lied to AM, so we do not know how much or even if the data collected by the illegality of the testing of draft prospects made it to NJ. We got screwed while NJ made out like crazy!
How is this not a concern?
And did the draft data collection happen after the Hall trade? Was this a conspiracy to benefit the devil's?

 

[XX]

I still think that next year's 1st was imposed to make sure we do all the right things. Now the tampering charges are intriguing. Chayka lied to AM, so we do not know how much or even if the data collected by the illegality of the testing of draft prospects made it to NJ. We got screwed while NJ made out like crazy!
How is this not a concern?

Data was worthless and deleted by Tommy Powers before ever really being used.

 

[AZviaNJ]

I’m not saying it wasn’t a fair trade for both teams at the time. I just think it’s odd that we were the high bid and Chayka leaves within 6 months for NJ while still under contract . Was there any talk with Chayka about coming to NJ before the time of the trade? If so, that is tampering. It depends on what was said or in any emails.

Oh, I'm all over this tampering deal! But to date I don't believe he's been hired by the Harris/Blitzer group (owns NJD, Sixers, Crystal Palace).

 

[_Del_]

Data was worthless and deleted by Tommy Powers before ever really being used.

Allegedly.


I don't think we'll get any relief for the penalty. Slimmest of chances at getting our pick added to the back of the round like he did for Lou. I also doubt we get much satisfaction from the Devils and tampering. If we did, it'd likely be a fine, not picks.

Maybe given the totality of the situation, we get the Devil's second if we play nice and Uncle Gary is placated by having a new and credible scouting department replacing the ass clowns, but that sounds a lot more like "wishful thinking" than credible.

 

[Schemp]

Data was worthless and deleted by Tommy Powers before ever really being used.

...and we know this, why? Chayka lied! Chayka quit!

 

[XX]

...and we know this, why? Chayka lied! Chayka quit!

Tommy Powers was some goon hired by Hofford. Whatever advantage was gained was super slight if it even existed.

The Coyotes should focus on quietly getting the 2021 1st back for cleaning up their act.

 

[cobra427]

Oh, I'm all over this tampering deal! But to date I don't believe he's been hired by the Harris/Blitzer group (owns NJD, Sixers, Crystal Palace).

Not hired yet, but they had the intent off hiring him and likely asked the NHL and coyotes if they were ok with it. I am sure AM said NO WAY. It looks like Chayka was doing what he could to land a job with the ownership group of NJ. The timeline of the Hall trade and Chaykas exit are too close together to not be suspicious of this. If it were next January, different story. The NHL crushed us for drat tampering, I would think they might do the same here to NJ depending on the facts. I am not saying I know the facts either, it sure looks bad though.

 

[rt]

BA went out of his way to praise, of course, Jankowski and Plandowski on the Full 60 podcast a bunch. But he more surprisingly mentioned Scott Walker each time he mentioned any of them. Seems to be a big fan of Waker despite inheriting him, rather than selecting him.

He never mentioned Sullivan once. He probably mentioned Walker 6 times. I don’t think Sullivan is here for the long-term.

BA seems to think he can help Tocchet. I think he wants to coach the coach. Tocchet is definitely not being fired before the season starts. There’s no chance of it. It’s not going to happen.

BA preached patience, caution, long-term planning, not being impulsive or getting too over eager. I hope this applies to Tocchet’s extension. I hope he takes a wait-and-see. I’m confident what he’ll see is a train wreck and he’ll do what he needs to do and fire Tocchet at that point. But it won’t be swift. The season will be at least half over. I’m sure of that.

BA said the roster is basically done. This is pretty much what we’ll see on opening night. I think because we’re over the cap, there’ll be at least on more move. I think he absolutely has to add a 2nd line LWer with at least some shot at 40-50pts.

I’m sure the only way to do this is to move Raanta. I think if they can get someone to take Raanta for a pick, or depth player, even if they have to retain a little on Raanta, they’ll do it.

Then he’s got to find a 2LW for under 3m that’s got really 40+ point potential as soon as next season.

Raanta for a 4th and then signing Kahun, I think is an example of an extremely likely final move for this roster.