Speculation: Hockey Ops Roulette (The Chayka Syndrome)

[Mosby]

Drury is comfy is in his NY job.

 

[rt]

Drury is comfy is in his NY job.

Friedman indicated that Florida seemed likely to offer him the job before he withdrew his name from the process.

Man I wish they’d have hired Mellanby and left Zito for us.

 

[XX]

It's been 6 weeks since JC quit, and we are one month from the draft. We need a full-time GM to start making some moves. What's taking so long?

They didn't start when JC quit like a normal team would.

 

[rt]

They didn't start when JC quit like a normal team would.

Chayka quit the same day the team entered the bubble. Including Tocchet and Sullivan. What if they were in the WCF right now? I guess they wouldn’t even be bothering with considering a GM search.

I understand why they had to start late. What I don’t understand is wasting their time with bullshit candidates when they have no time to waste. Getting a late start is okay but it means you should bother talking to Pierre f***ing McGuire even once, let alone twice.

They should have had one Zoom call with six serious candidates. Two Zoom calls with half of those. Then fly out two of them. Then pick one.

If the candidates have proven track records and a mountain of references, you don’t need to spend 35 hours talking to them over two weeks to make a choice.

You SHOULD NOT be TALKED into hiring a f***ing GM! Hahahahaha. If all they have to offer is supposing shit and talking your ear off, they’re not the right choice. Like McGuire, Olczyk, Weekes, etc.

 

[XX]

Chayka quit the same day the team entered the bubble. Including Tocchet and Sullivan. What if they were in the WCF right now? I guess they wouldn’t even be bothering with considering a GM search.

Probably only due to being limited on time. The distance you go changes nothing beyond what the goal is for the GM at the end of the day. You either trust Sullivan or not. If you don't think he's ready then you start the search as soon as JC quits.

They probably started late because they had to find out what the penalty for the testing scandal would be. It would also be fairly awkward to interview or even hire someone and then choose the picks over a fine.

 

[hbk]

Chayka quit the same day the team entered the bubble. Including Tocchet and Sullivan. What if they were in the WCF right now? I guess they wouldn’t even be bothering with considering a GM search.

I understand why they had to start late. What I don’t understand is wasting their time with bullshit candidates when they have no time to waste. Getting a late start is okay but it means you should bother talking to Pierre f***ing McGuire even once, let alone twice.

They should have had one Zoom call with six serious candidates. Two Zoom calls with half of those. Then fly out two of them. Then pick one.

If the candidates have proven track records and a mountain of references, you don’t need to spend 35 hours talking to them over two weeks to make a choice.

You SHOULD NOT be TALKED into hiring a f***ing GM! Hahahahaha. If all they have to offer is supposing shit and talking your ear off, they’re not the right choice. Like McGuire, Olczyk, Weekes, etc.

Chayka informed Ownership he wanted to leave weeks ahead of the bubble. Essentially when we first heard the rumours from Simmonds with Chirelli’s named referenced to AZ.

 

[MIGs Dog]

They didn't start when JC quit like a normal team would.

If we are not normal, would that make us Abby-Normal?

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Chayka quit the same day the team entered the bubble. Including Tocchet and Sullivan. What if they were in the WCF right now? I guess they wouldn’t even be bothering with considering a GM search.

I understand why they had to start late. What I don’t understand is wasting their time with bullshit candidates when they have no time to waste. Getting a late start is okay but it means you should bother talking to Pierre f***ing McGuire even once, let alone twice.

They should have had one Zoom call with six serious candidates. Two Zoom calls with half of those. Then fly out two of them. Then pick one.

If the candidates have proven track records and a mountain of references, you don’t need to spend 35 hours talking to them over two weeks to make a choice.

You SHOULD NOT be TALKED into hiring a f***ing GM! Hahahahaha. If all they have to offer is supposing shit and talking your ear off, they’re not the right choice. Like McGuire, Olczyk, Weekes, etc.

If we were in the WCF I think we'd just give the GM job to Sullivan. Things would be easy, retain Tocchet. Only thing to do would be resign Hall.


Buuuuutttt we're not. And interviewing TV people is even worse than what I thought would happen with Meruelo Jr. leading the search. It's crazy we still seem to be in the preliminary stage of the search.

I wonder if we'll have a GM by the time the Stanley Cup is handed out...

 

[Mosby]

But it worked out so well last time we gave someone from NHL Network a job in hockey ops.

 

[Jamieh]

If we were in the WCF I think we'd just give the GM job to Sullivan. Things would be easy, retain Tocchet. Only thing to do would be resign Hall.


Buuuuutttt we're not. And interviewing TV people is even worse than what I thought would happen with Meruelo Jr. leading the search. It's crazy we still seem to be in the preliminary stage of the search.

I wonder if we'll have a GM by the time the Stanley Cup is handed out...

What season????

 

[rt]

If we were in the WCF I think we'd just give the GM job to Sullivan. Things would be easy, retain Tocchet. Only thing to do would be resign Hall.

This is my point. They could not have known what would occur in the bubble and it's logical to take a wait and see approach, especially with "cooler heads" in mind, after the Chayka fiasco. It's why I don't blame the team for not launching the official search earlier. I'd say the most I'd be wiling to concede is three business days. Even then, it takes time to schedule.

Buuuuutttt we're not. And interviewing TV people is even worse than what I thought would happen with Meruelo Jr. leading the search. It's crazy we still seem to be in the preliminary stage of the search.

Exactly my point. This is what I do blame them for. Starting the search late and failing catastrophically in the search are not the same thing. This is a correlation, rather than a causation.

Starting late was perfectly reasonable given the circumstances. Dawdling and wasting time with a bunch of f***ing re-tards, while your dip-shit fail-son leads the charge is absolutely unforgivable. Unfortunately, I feel they'll be rewarded with exactly what they've got coming when it's all said and done.

This organization has spent the large majority of its history steeped in nepotism, cronyism, and sycophantic lapdoggery. All signs are pointing to a continuation along that path. Which leads only to the final financial ruin, the final humiliation, and the final relocation.

We will find out in the next couple of weeks whether the above fate has been sealed or if there's still some hope of some day gaining some modicum of credibility.

I have my fingers crossed, but I'm sure as shit not holding my breath.

 

[rt]

But it worked out so well last time we gave someone from NHL Network a job in hockey ops.

I would bet you $10,000 to a donut that the f***ing tablet isn't even on. Either than, or he's got Garfield comics loaded up.

 

[Mosby]

Went back and listened to Burke on Chiclets. One point of note is he doesn't see the need to blow your brains out on a big money coach. So if we were to hire him and replace Tocchet, I doubt we'd look at the Babcocks and Laviolettes of the world. Moot point considering the state of the team and with Meruelo up to his tits in casino losses, but still.

 

[rt]

Went back and listened to Burke on Chiclets. One point of note is he doesn't see the need to blow your brains out on a big money coach. So if we were to hire him and replace Tocchet, I doubt we'd look at the Babcocks and Laviolettes of the world. Moot point considering the state of the team and with Meruelo up to his tits in casino losses, but still.

I listened to both Pt 1 and Pt 2 of Burke on Chiclets. I also listened to him on the Cam Janssen and Andy Strickland podcast. And also on the Florida Panthers podcast that's essentially the equivalent to the Natty Hatty for us. And finally on a Montreal Canadiens podcast called "From Failing Hands" or something. I listened to them on on 1.5x speed, so that helped blow through them. On the last couple, I skipped past most of the rehashing of the playing career and skipped ahead to the post-playing stuff.

Some themes I don't like; he likes Tocchet personally, and that scares me. Also, he really doesn't have direct experience. I listened to hours of him speaking and he says great stuff, but none of those words make up for the fact that he would be a first timer, and probably require experienced guidance that we just don't currently have.

Some themes I like; he was one of the last two guys up for both the Edmonton and Seattle jobs. He's done just a TON of different things around hockey. He's been serious about scouting for a few years not (that's not much different from Sullivan). His team canada experience (while not successful enough to be a feather in the cap as an accomplishment) was very unique because it was a roster of cast-offs and there was a lot of personnel drama and he was the chief (so it was great from an experience standpoint). He is not connected to the Coyotes but considers Phoenix home and obviously follows the Coyotes (I'm hoping he's seen so much of this team he knows what's not working - including Tocchet). He spoke multiple times, rather well, about not falling for the shiny objects and not to get too caught up in dazzling skill or fancy stats and wild analytics. He seems to think it's really not that hard. He wants coaches that get players to play hard. He wants players that play hard. He values character and guts and guys who rise to the occasion.

Where I'm at: He doesn't have enough experience at the things I want. Sullivan just barely does, but not nearly as much as I'd find ideal. Burke is behind him, there but not by enough to make me hate hiring Burke or love hiring Sullivan. Futa and Armstrong have way more executive experience. But it's not the things I want. I don't want a scout being our GM because he was such a great scout. Especially not amateur scouts.

Cliff's: I have Hextall 10,000 miles ahead of Sullivan. I have Sullivan a little ahead of Burke. I have Burke about equal with Futa and Armstrong. I don't think any of the three have the experience we need. I think we could easily just end up being lucky and any of the three turns out to be a great GM. You don't HAVE to have that experience to be great. I just want it. Sakic and Yzerman didn't have it. I'd happily take either of them.

I don't think Burke, Armstrong or Futa are particularly "smart" hires. But they are potentially very good hires. Sullivan is a little bit of a smarter hire but could easily be a worse one. Hextall won't fail. He might not be great and get us all the way but he won't do a bad job. Zero chance. He's proved that.

 

[XX]

Burke is a thinker and very self aware, based on my listening of his interviews. His stories of how he approached different goalies were great. He seems really eager (almost antsy) to put his stamp on an organization. I would bet he wouldn't hesitate. Would he make good choices? Nobody knows. Same with Sullivan.

With Hextall there's a pattern of good decision making, even if he did commit to a failed coach a bit too long, or wasn't aggressive enough in finding a goalie.

Ideally I'd like Hextall as Pres, Burke as VP, Sullivan still with the org (either as AGM or GM) and Doan as someone who listens 95% of the time.

We might just end up with dirt cheap Chia and nobody else. That's terrifying.

Some themes I don't like; he likes Tocchet personally, and that scares me.

Everyone was up on Tocc heading into this season. Turns out he sandbags skill and can't adjust when it matters. Sometimes being in the thick of things is different from playing spoiler.

 

[Mosby]

We're pretty much the same in order of preference. I'm not concerned that Burke likes Tocchet personally. That's not really surprising. They're ex-teammates and Tocchet seems like a cool dude. He's just a shitty head coach.

@rt Were the Panthers and Canadiens podcasts worth listening to? I thought the Janssen one was pretty good. Chiclets was good too especially as it was just Biz so they could keep it relatively focused.

 

[hbk]

Can Burke give an answer that isn’t 10 minutes long? Seems to tell a long story before he makes a point.

 

[rt]

We're pretty much the same in order of preference. I'm not concerned that Burke likes Tocchet personally. That's not really surprising. They're ex-teammates and Tocchet seems like a cool dude. He's just a shitty head coach.

@rt Were the Panthers and Canadiens podcasts worth listening to? I thought the Janssen one was pretty good. Chiclets was good too especially as it was just Biz so they could keep it relatively focused.

He tells the same stories. There are just tidbits. I’d say listen at 1.5x and skip the early Playing career stuff.

 

[rt]

Can Burke give an answer that isn’t 10 minutes long? Seems to tell a long story before he makes a point.

I prefer his style. Like it a lot. Just didn’t really enjoy listening to the same stories 7 times (I’d previously listened to both SC eps).

 

[hbk]

I prefer his style. Like it a lot. Just didn’t really enjoy listening to the same stories 7 times (I’d previously listened to both SC eps).

There’s a time and a place for a long winding story though. On trade deadline day for example would not be when I decide to tell someone a 25 minute story. Sometimes you just want someone to cut to the chase already. I’m likely over analyzing things as I should consider the format of the podcasts.

one question I would legitimately ask Gm candidates is the Chayka philosophy to lock up your RFA’s by extending and buying their prime years of UFA. I think there is merit to it. I’d rather own a player from 22-30 than 29-35 so with the right players I was on board with our leading approach on this. It seemed much more in line with the NFL where it’s cutthroat at a certain age depending on position. It’s also why I’ve struggled with the idea of a Hall extension that starts at age 29. This would be a great question in the interviews.

 

[XX]

one question I would legitimately ask Gm candidates is the Chayka philosophy to lock up your RFA’s by extending and buying their prime years of UFA. I think there is merit to it. I’d rather own a player from 22-30 than 29-35 so with the right players I was on board with our leading approach on this. It seemed much more in line with the NFL where it’s cutthroat at a certain age depending on position. It’s also why I’ve struggled with the idea of a Hall extension that starts at age 29. This would be a great question in the interviews.

Yep. I'd rather overpay Keller by 1.5m than have Hall be an albatross for 5 years. Buy the prime years, avoid the risky years.

You get a coach in here that gets them over the 3.00 GF/GP mark, a lot of tunes are going to change.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

If we are not normal, would that make us Abby-Normal?

Bless you for this reference. Here. Walk this way.

 

[Coyotes2000]

Trade OEL for picks sign Hall, make Hall captain. Thats my wish

 

[Mosby]

NHL Draft is moving ahead a couple days, from Oct 9-10 to Oct 6-7 (midweek!)

That's less than a month from today. We really need to get the GM in place this week. Supposedly they're narrowing down the list.

 

[RABBIT]

NHL Draft is moving ahead a couple days, from Oct 9-10 to Oct 6-7 (midweek!)

That's less than a month from today. We really need to get the GM in place this week. Supposedly they're narrowing down the list.

where’d you hear this? Both parts.