Hockey Countries compared to Soccer Countries

[OC Kings Fan 24]

You guys remember the world cup that was held here in the US. The United States was playing Columbia. One of the US players kicked the ball and a Columbian defendsman tried to block it and accidentally kicked it in on his own goal. That goal pretty much eliminated the Columbians from the cup. When that poor guy got back home to Columbia , he was shot in the head walking down the street. Hope that never happends in hockey

 

[Macman]

Did it happen near the cornerflag? He went down faster than a fat chick who sat down to fast. Grabbing his balls while in fact he was hit on the knee. Great acting skills..

Yup, that was it. The guy had moved into position for a corner kick and one of the opposing players kicked the ball at him and hit him in the shins. He went down like he was shot.

 

[Strizzi]

The country comparisons are a bit difficult as there is much more balance in soccer than in hockey (much more contending, or at least pretending countries). So you could make a case for many soccer nations being equivalent to USA or Sweden in hockey for example. Heck, only at the Euro now there's about 5 teams with a really good shot at the tile, and 3 other who you always have to keep an eye on. And in the qualifying rounds, every game has to be taken seriously.

 

[Sampe]

Beckenbauer is likely a top 5 player of all time, (Pele, Maradonna and Cruijff being the undisputed top 3), then you have a couple that can be considered to close out the top 5; Platini, Beckenbauer, Di Stefano, etc. I do agree Beckenbaur is top 5, but you can make a case for someone else just as much. He isn't a "definite" top 5 player if you ask me, nevertheless, he was arguably the greatest defenseman ever though.

If you ask me, the list would be something like:

Tier 1: Pelé, Maradona
Tier 2: Cruyff, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer
Tier 3: Garrincha, Eusebio, Puskas, Platini
Tier 4: Zico, Best, Yashin, Matthews etc.

 

[Strizzi]

Not bad, though I had Mike Peca in my mind..

That's a pretty good one too. It just has to be one of the top 3rd liners.

 

[Ajacied]

Yup, that was it. The guy had moved into position for a corner kick and one of the opposing players kicked the ball at him and hit him in the shins. He went down like he was shot.

Yeah that was Rivaldo alright. Worst part was that the player in question (that "shot" the ball), got a red card out of it. I've lost all my respect for him since, not that I had any for him.

Rivaldo - Peter Forsberg

 

[Strizzi]

Rivaldo - Peter Forsberg

Nope. Forsberg is much more complete.

 

[Digger]

Though it's very hard to compare ...

I'd say Canada is a mix out of Germany and France
Germany=Big Tradition, very successfull and always (mostly) contenders
France=very skilled Players but not as skilled as the Brazillians

Swedish Hockey = Italian Soccer
Both are pretty successfull and both are also very boring to watch. Good skilled players but very defensive strategy

Russian Hockey = Argentina
Both have very skilled players but lack physical play and consistency

The Czechs in Hockey are pretty much like the Netherlands in soccer.
Both have very good, very skilled players and are often exciting to watch but aren't as successfull as the Top-Nations

Finnish and US Hockey ...

 

[Digger]

Beckenbauer is likely a top 5 player of all time, (Pele, Maradonna and Cruijff being the undisputed top 3), then you have a couple that can be considered to close out the top 5; Platini, Beckenbauer, Di Stefano, etc. I do agree Beckenbaur is top 5, but you can make a case for someone else just as much. He isn't a "definite" top 5 player if you ask me, nevertheless, he was arguably the greatest defenseman ever though.

The greatest defenseman ever and you think he is not even top 5 ???
Sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all!

 

[TORRUS]

OHO, nice thread!

Someone compared Croatia in football to Finland in hockey! Well thank you very much!!! I wish that was true, but unfortunately it isn't...

Now, about USA-France... In my opinion very bad comparison. Although I don't like their football, and trully hate Zidane I must admit that they are the strongest team in the world right now. If world cup was held this summer my predictions would be: France 36%, Brazil 34%, others 30%. Croatia is in the same group... France is just too strong to be compared to USA in hockey.

I also don't agree with Slovakia- Sweeden comparison. The same reason as USA-France. Slovaks are too good. After all, Slovaks are first, fourth and fourth in the last 3 world championships.

Russia-Brazil is good comparison. They both play beautiful!

Canada-Germany is also very good. Someone said: Nothing pretty but they get the job done. I agree with that!

Someone said that Crespo is too good for Lang! :lol For the last 2 years he is sitting on the bench and not showing anything, while in the last 2 years Lang became one of the best players in the world!!!

Fedorov-Totti Both very smart in the game. Leaders of their teams and atractive to watch!

Ronaldinho - Kovalchuk. The best techniqe (ball/puck) Take people out of their seats!

 

[Tricolore#20]

Whenever I watch soccer this is something I've kind of thought about.

I always thought Brazil was comparable to Canada, not in terms of style of play obviously, but in terms of accomplishment and regard. When Brasil loses a game, it becomes noteworthy, even when they field a B or C side (like during qualification for 2002), much like when Canada loses at any competition. Nations take pride in beating any Brasilian side in soccer, much like with Canada in hockey.

When you see a big club sign massive players, I compare it to the NHL sometimes. Like to me, Real Madrid is like the Detroit Red Wings (not New York Rangers, because of their poor record). They are able to lure very good players because of the situation they have.

Real Madrid = Detroit Red Wings
Manchester United = Toronto Maple Leafs (only because of their popularity, media attention, world wide fan base)
Liverpool=Montreal Canadiens (large fan base, but have struggled to regain their form from the 1970s-80s. Have had a few good seasons recently, but not near top form.. but it can be argued that Montreal is more important to hockey, than Liverpool is to soccer )

I'm certain that people will disagree. I'm not as fluent in soccer as I am in hockey, so I may be off base. But just some observations.

 

[DutchLeafsfan]

Not bad, though I had Mike Peca in my mind..

Yeah, that was also the link I made first. Both competitive players with some offensive upside who are also good defensively...

How about Marco van Basten and Pavel Bure? Both arguably the greatest goalscorer of their generation, and both with an injury shortening what could have been an even greater career. Even though Marco ranks higher on the all time soccer player list than Bure does with hockey.

I'd personally also consider comparing Russian hockey with Dutch football. Both nations which produce flashy players, both consistently among the best in the world, only to fall short on several occassions in the past years. Also both have had their share of questions about the player's commitment, justified or not. The Czechs are also a decent comparison I'd say.


As for the poster with the soccer rankings, I won't even bother trying to pick them entirely apart. Suffices to say though that they are completely off...

 

[DutchLeafsfan]

Real Madrid = Detroit Red Wings
Manchester United = Toronto Maple Leafs (only because of their popularity, media attention, world wide fan base)
Liverpool=Montreal Canadiens (large fan base, but have struggled to regain their form from the 1970s-80s. Have had a few good seasons recently, but not near top form.. but it can be argued that Montreal is more important to hockey, than Liverpool is to soccer )

While popular around the world, Manchester United has been nowhere near as succesful as the Maple Leafs have been in their history. To me a team like for instance Ajax would be a more appropriate comparison

 

[Ajacied]

The greatest defenseman ever and you think he is not even top 5 ???
Sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all!

I personally feel that you can make a case that either of the five forwards meant more to their respective squads or even for the game of soccer. Positions are irrelevant when judging the game's best ever. Just because he's likely the best defenseman ever doesn't mean he has to be put in the top 5.

 

[JVR]

What a great thread, ok, a little bit weird but great nontheless.

IMO it's a big insult to Forsberg to compare him to Rivaldo (God, I hate that *****).

Canada - Germany is a bit nice for Germany don't you think?

When I think about hockey the very first thing that come to my mind is Canada, they are the clear cut No 1, I wouldn't say that about Germany, Brazil would be better although I do agree the playing styles doesn't fit.

England, Netherlands = Finland

 

[Sampe]

I personally feel that you can make a case that either of the five forwards meant more to their respective squads or even for the game of soccer. Positions are irrelevant when judging the game's best ever. Just because he's likely the best defenseman ever doesn't mean he has to be put in the top 5.

Beckenbauer's World Cup career can only be rivaled (and surpassed) by Pelé and Maradona. That *has* to count for something.

 

[VAN-HAB]

Draper?

Domi

 

[Jungle Boy]

Some player comparisons, while we're at it:

Gretzky = Pelé (greatest career ever)
Lemieux = Diego Maradona (most talented player ever)
Orr = Franz Beckenbauer (defenders who changed the game)
Howe = Alfredo Di Stefano (legends who could do it all and played for ages)
Jagr = Zinedine Zidane (best player in the world for the past 5-10 years)
Lindros = Ronaldo (most talented and hyped players of the current generation, careers 'spoiled' by injuries)

I can't think of a hockey player to compare to Johan Cruyff; someone sublimely skilled and incredibly versatile. Kharlamov had the skill but lacked the versatility. Any help here?

How can you say that Maradona is more talented than Pelé? Geez Pelé was a complete package, he shoots with both feet, heading, passing and shooting was great. He was a complete athlete and had a 17 years career (pretty long) for football. Puskas is better than Maradona so was Garrincha, but they played in the 50´s/early 60´s not many videos that can prove that I right.

 

[Norseman]

Canada = Germany

I think Gary Lineker said it best:
"Football is a very simple game. For 90 minutes 22 men go running after the ball and at the end the Germans win".

 

[Jungle Boy]

Rivaldo

Everybody know that it was acting, but the other player from Turkey shot the ball on him, so the guy should had received the red card Rivaldo just did that to make sure that the referee could see what happened. Talking about comparasions I have an aunt that is married with a french canadien and they live in Quebec, in the world cup ( I can´t recall if it was 98 or 2002) there was a story on her and how important soccer is to brazilian culture, one thing that she said was that soccer in Brazil is the samething as hockey in Canada.

 

[Sampe]

How can you say that Maradona is more talented than Pelé? Geez Pelé was a complete package, he shoots with both feet, heading, passing and shooting was great. He was a complete athlete and had a 17 years career (pretty long) for football. Puskas is better than Maradona so was Garrincha, but they played in the 50´s/early 60´s not many videos that can prove that I right.

It depends on how you define talent. Pelé was more complete, yes. But when it comes to dominating the game, I'd give the edge to Maradona who won the World Cup almost singlehandedly in 1986.

Garrincha was absolutely spectacular, but he was little more than a flashy dribbler. Maradona was more effective. In fact, didn't Garrincha once say that his favorite part of the game was dribbling, not winning and scoring goals?

Now that I think about, Valery Kharlamov would be a decent comparison to Garrincha. Though Garrincha was more skilled.

As for Puskas, could you elaborate? He had a fantastic left foot, yes, but what else?

 

[Jungle Boy]

Canada = Germany

I think Gary Lineker said it best:
"Football is a very simple game. For 90 minutes 22 men go running after the ball and at the end the Germans win".

No doubt! I remenber 2002 World Cup!

 

[Jungle Boy]

It depends on how you define talent. Pelé was more complete, yes. But when it comes to dominating the game, I'd give the edge to Maradona who won the World Cup almost singlehandedly in 1986.

Garrincha was absolutely spectacular, but he was little more than a flashy dribbler. Maradona was more effective. In fact, didn't Garrincha once say that his favorite part of the game was dribbling, not winning and scoring goals?

Now that I think about, Valery Kharlamov would be a decent comparison to Garrincha. Though Garrincha was more skilled.

As for Puskas, could you elaborate? He had a fantastic left foot, yes, but what else?

Pelé was outstading in 58, Garrincha won the World Cup almost singlehandedly in 1962, you are right about the dribbling. When we won the cup in 58 Garrincha didn´t have a clue why everybody else was so happy. he asked "What about the 2nd half of the championship" (at the time Brazilian championship had 2 parts, in the first part teams play away in the 2nd at home). This shows what you said.
Puskas, I´m a great fan of him he was another complete package, let´s say that he was 85% of Pelé without the right foot.
I understand why people overrates Maradona, because people can see what he did on videos. With Pelé, Puskas, Garrincha you can´t. Garrincha was just unstopable defenseman feared him he just humiliated them, he made the fans laugh at them.

 

[Wisent]

.

USA = France - this was a tough one. I was trying to think of a soccer country with a large populate that has improved quite a bit recently. I'm not sure Americans would like to be compared to France .

Or vice versa.

 

[Sampe]

I understand why people overrates Maradona, because people can see what he did on videos. With Pelé, Puskas, Garrincha you can´t. Garrincha was just unstopable defenseman feared him he just humiliated them, he made the fans laugh at them.

Oh but you can, at least in Pelé's case. For instance, I've watched the 1970 World Cup final between Brazil and Italy. And although it was quite clear who the most talented and complete player on the field was, Pelé was actually outplayed by Gérson and possibly a few others in that game. I'm not trying to make a point here since it was just 1 game, just saying that there's quite a lot of Pelé available on the internet if you dig deep.

And you have to realize how much the game has changed since the 1950s. It was a lot faster in Maradona's era and the defenders and goalkeepers were a lot better than some 30 years before that.