Post-Game Talk: HNIC - Leafs WIN the home opener!!!

[notDatsyuk]

Looks like a darn good career move to me.

I don't love everything he did in Toronto, especially the "going for it" failures. But again, he didn't come up flat in many games in the post season ...

No question it was a good career move for him.

True, he didn't come up flat in many games in the post season, but the team he built did. Since his job wasn't to play well, but to build a team that did....

 

[All Mod Cons]

He absolutely is part of the old boys club. I just don't understand how you can just completely clear off 6 years of playoff failures from Dubas's record with a bunch of manufactured BS like he was the only GM in hockey that had to deal with Covid....and then say Treliving sucks after one year lol. You have a pre formed bias here and consistently contradict yourself in the argument by saying stuff doesn't matter with Dubas and then turning around and critisizing Tree for pretty much the exact same thing.

Dubas is driving the Penguins into the ground as we speak. The fans are dying to offload the contracts that Kyle handed out. The Jarry and Graves contracts are bananas.

I doubt you'll see Kyle make the playoffs without Matthews and Co. for a long, long time.

 

[MCR74]

Dubas is driving the Penguins into the ground as we speak. The fans are dying to offload the contracts that Kyle handed out. The Jarry and Graves contracts are bananas.

I doubt you'll see Kyle make the playoffs without Matthews and Co. for a long, long time.

Once Sid and Geno retire, Kyle will be in an ever bigger world of hurt.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Also the Covid years effected us more because Dubas f***ed up the negotiations of the core players coming off ELC....something even he has admitted he bungled. You can't just say he had a flat cap so oh well nothing he could have done differently. He made plenty of his own mistakes that contributed to us failing in the playoffs. To say the GM bears no responsibility for a teams results come playoff time is so utterly ridiculous. If those teams Dubas blessed us with had of won back then would he have gotten credit for it? Or does he just not get blame when it goes badly?

Covid affected us more because we committed significant portions of our cap directly prior, not because there was anything wrong with the contracts.
I didn't say that the GM has no responsibility for results in the playoffs, but that's very different from only looking at playoff outcomes to evaluate a GM.
He wasn't perfect, but the playoff losses weren't really about him. If we had won, he gets credit for the team he built and the impact he had; not the outcome in isolation.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Covid affected us more because we committed significant portions of our cap directly prior, not because there was anything wrong with the contracts.
I didn't say that the GM has no responsibility for results in the playoffs, but that's very different from only looking at playoff outcomes to evaluate a GM.
The losses weren't really about him. If we had won, he gets credit for the team he built and the impact he had; not the outcome in isolation.

So seeing as we lost shouldn't he then get blame for the team he built and the impact he had on it? Like at the end of the day you can think the team was built to win...but it obviously wasn't. This isn't judging him on one year of playoff failures either, this is multiple repeat failures to push us into the later stages of the playoffs. The answer is yes, if we had of won he would have gotten the praise for building it. We lost so he gets the blame for the short falls. It also wasn't just Covid that tripped him up, he decided to wait as long as he could to lock them up...and then they broke out and rinsed us. He had that old dinosaur Lou's whole "if you have time use it" phrase stuck in his head and we got bent over because of it.

 

[ACC1224]

Can’t wait for the day when we no longer have to read about Dubas.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So seeing as we lost shouldn't he then get blame for the team he built and the impact he had on it?

Same thing. He gets credit for the team he built and the impact he had; not the outcome in isolation.
The team he built was good, and the impact he had on it was good.

It also wasn't just Covid that tripped him up, he decided to wait as long as he could to lock them up...and then they broke out and rinsed us. He had that old dinosaur Lou's whole "if you have time use it" phrase stuck in his head and we got bent over because of it.

Lou is the one that waited on Nylander, and Matthews signed in-season. Marner went to the end, but we don't know why, and we didn't get "bent over" on any of them.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Can’t wait for the day when we no longer have to read about Dubas.

I actually love it because I can't get enough of you guys shitting on him and pointing out his failure. How Shanny wanted him back and kept his job is beyond me.

 

[ULF_55]

No question it was a good career move for him.

True, he didn't come up flat in many games in the post season, but the team he built did. Since his job wasn't to play well, but to build a team that did....

Yeah, he believed in his players.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Can’t wait for the day when we no longer have to read about Dubas.

They didn't lose, so we must argue about something or it doesn't feel right.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Understood, as a lifelong Leafs' fan, sarcasm comes frequently. Defense mechanism.

 

[ULF_55]

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Probably wait until my back was turned.

 

[The Shrike]

Once Sid and Geno retire, Kyle will be in an ever bigger world of hurt.

Any GM who took that job did so with the knowledge that ownership wants to run out the string with an aging core. Basically, the only choice at present is to try and win now with a core that was in its prime a decade ago. The rebuild should have started now, but probably won't until the summer of 2027.

In the meantime, Sid will keep them competitive enough to keep them out of the good drafting slots needed to help the inevitable rebuild. Then, he'll retire, and the team will bottom out for several years, get high picks, and start to rebuild proper.

Not the job I'd want, but hey, it's Kyles own fault for taking it.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Covid affected every team. Get over it. Dubas has been gone for two years and quite frankly I don't miss him, he was an irrelevant GM, a footnote in this team's history. He kept losers like Holl on this roster for way too long. Good riddance, I hope Pittsburgh fans enjoy his facade.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Probably wait until my back was turned.

if they can adopt this style it could have potential

 

[conFABulator]

I'm not going to debate every single transaction in a PGT, but I don't find anything particularly praiseworthy about any of this other than the basic fact that Matthews was extended and the basic fact that Nylander was extended (aside from how it was handled). The likes of Klingberg, Reaves, Bertuzzi, etc. were especially horrible, as is not yet re-signing Marner. In 2022-2023, we were one of the best teams in the league. Strong offensively and defensively, and coming off a good goaltending season. Had no long-term cap concerns, a cap about to skyrocket, and prospects ready to graduate. I don't really see how we're in a stronger position now.

Fair enough, I lost track of the fact that this was a PGT.

I thought the 2022/23 season ended with us whimpering out against Florida after finally getting through R1. I thought we had spent all of draft capital on O'Reilly, Acciari, Schenn, Lafferty and McCabe.

We lost all of those guys except for McCabe and lost Bunting too, and had Murray on the cap too.

I don't recall us feeling all the rosey about the immediate future. I was a Dubas supporter by the way. It wasn't a mess but it feels stronger now than it has in years.

 

[Evilhomer]

it feels stronger now than it has in years.

I don't think you will find anyone who legitimately believes that the team that lost to Florida is better than the current lineup. It's possible that Dubas would have done all of the same things that Treliving has done, because it's not like Treliving has re-invented the wheel here. If anything, he has been far more conservative than Dubas ever was. I think the difference is simply that Treliving has taken a much safer approach to the team. The defense is better. The goaltending is better. There are far fewer "high risk/high reward" players on the team. Again, it's absolutely possible that Dubas would have taken the same approach if he was still here. He may have even been ready for much bigger changes than Treliving has made, since the latter has basically taken the most conservative approach possible. It's not a contest between Dubas and Treliving.