Post-Game Talk: Hit em with the 4 like AM34. Leafs lose 4th straight game 7 to Boston: 2-1

[Divine]

Samsanov showed up tonight. He's not good and won't be back but he's dead last on the list of who i would blame for the loss.

Did he? He allows a weak shot to hit his arm and go in the net by a 3 goal scoring defencemen with no windup. Oh, and it was also the first shot he faced after the Leafs finally went up 1-0.

 

[Dave92]

I think turning around a last place team that drafted Matthews into a playoff team was a pretty notable success.

Lou saw that happen.

Name one other leap the team has made of that magnitude since then.

Taking five years to win a round?

Was that as good?

That's what Dubas did.

He's an absolute loser.

Actually Lou again took the Islanders job when they were expected to be bottom feeders lost Tavares for some of the Leafs spare parts and got more playoff wins that season than the Leafs have had in the entirety of the Matthews era.

 

[WillNy29]

I think turning around a last place team that drafted Matthews into a playoff team was a pretty notable success.

Lou saw that happen.

Name one other leap the team has made of that magnitude since then.

Taking five years to win a round?

Was that as good?

That's what Dubas did.

He's an absolute loser.

i dont know why you think i think dubas was good? I am saying Lou, Hunter, Dubas all sucked.

Go look back at the leafs drafts post their top picks in 2015-2018. that falls squarely on lou, dubas and hunter.

Much of the team was the same except for trading for a goalie that was good in the regular seaosn and crapped the bed in big games that was also on Lou. the leafs had decent enough players that adding in Matthew, Marner and Nylander and to an extent connor brown to the team would make them a playoff team. But you can go back to that 2017 team and prove me wrong if you believe that its not the case (JVR, Bozak, Kadri etc were all good serviceable players)

 

[Divine]

You can’t just say Helle didn’t had a good playoffs and discredit a team who score 5 goals a game.
The way the Avs create space and attack the zone was something I wish our guys can do. And that not just Mack and Makar either, their whole team plays that way.
Like I said, our top guys esp MM and JT really didn’t deliver.

Yeah, but the Avs play a different game than us in the playoffs. They score more goals and they allow more goals. That's their game.

Keefe prioritizes defense over scoring. Everyone's back and defensively responsible. The Avs don't play that way at all. It's very rare the Avs keep the opponent to under 3 goals. We also don't have a Cale Makar on our team which the Avs transition game relies heavily on.

 

[Bomber0104]

i dont know why you think i think dubas was good? I am saying Lou, Hunter, Dubas all sucked.

Go look back at the leafs drafts post their top picks in 2015-2018. that falls squarely on lou, dubas and hunter.

Much of the team was the same except for trading for a goalie that was good in the regular seaosn and crapped the bed in big games that was also on Lou. the leafs had decent enough players that adding in Matthew, Marner and Nylander and to an extent connor brown to the team would make them a playoff team. But you can go back to that 2017 team and prove me wrong if you believe that its not the case (JVR, Bozak, Kadri etc were all good serviceable players)

Last time I checked, Andersen is still winning playoff games for the Hurricanes.

They're into the 2nd round.

Dubas let him go for nothing, thinking he was cooked incorrectly.

Yet another blunder he made for the team,

In fact, has he ever made a good goalie movie that helped a team go further?

Nope.

Jarry for a 5 year deal is his latest decison on his own team and they missed the playoffs and will likely have to eat that one or shuffle him somewhere else.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

The Leafs change their game in the playoffs. Maybe that's on Keefe and he needs to be fired.

The one thing that everyone ignores when talking about the offense drying up is that they always allow fewer goals in the playoffs too. Maybe they emphasize defence more in the playoffs because they're playing against better teams?

When all the games are 2-1, 1-0, or 3-2 the bad goals are a backbreaker when the other goalie hasn't allowed a bad goal in the entire series.

Yeah, a new coach is needed because what they've tried in the playoffs clearly doesn't work. Instead of using the strengths of the team, we play like the Islanders under Barry Trotz.

True but look at the Avs. How come their guys seem to have no problem scoring against Helle and the Jets. Jets is a much better team than the Bruins.

Because the Avs didn't change their play style at all. They attack relentlessly, not sit back and hope for the best.

 

[notbias]

Last time I checked, Andersen is still winning playoff games for the Hurricanes.

They're into the 2nd round.

Dubas let him go for nothing, thinking he was cooked incorrectly.

Yet another blunder he made for the team,

In fact, has he ever made a good goalie movie that helped a team go further?

Nope.

Just FYI he went to round 2 last year, he re-signed Woll, and Tre re-signed Sammy.

 

[WillNy29]

Last time I checked, Andersen is still winning playoff games for the Hurricanes.

They're into the 2nd round.

Dubas let him go for nothing, thinking he was cooked incorrectly.

Yet another blunder he made for the team,

In fact, has he ever made a good goalie movie that helped a team go further?

Nope.

yeah because dubas f***ing sucked...

but andersen let in a whole lot of back breaking goals. Hell he may be the reason that iteration of carolina doesnt have a cup yet

 

[Gabriel426]

it matters because it’s a cap league and there’s a limited amount to go around that’s needed to be somewhat optimized to get good enough players to win and because what paul nylander/willy did kinda establishes a philosophy that the individual well and truly comes before the group - written in bold letters and in capitals. I love this guy he’s my favourite player and has been since the day he was drafted. Stayed up at stupid o clock regularly translating swedish pages to find streams to watch him play on modo in the shl after he got drafted by the leafs and his ahl days and was the best performer in this series. But I’m just calling it objectively without revisionist history. He did establish a bad precedent. I was personally very against the jt signing. It made no sense to ditch the original plan of a rebuild and accelerate it and go back to what fans were crying to get away from. the same fans as soon as the team saw the tiniest bit of success went bat shit insane at any potential ufa that might be hitting the market next year in 2 years or 3 years. it was insane in here. jt! stamkos! pietrangelo!

mlse is owned by corporations not individuals. and they don’t care if this team wins. they care about money. when they see fans going beserk at wanting a big ufa you bet they will pressure shanny to have the ufa signed to make more money. jersey sales merch etc. this is the most irrational fan base in sports. it’s a sad poetic justice that an impatient greedy fan base and management that chased tavares scored 1 pp goal and 1 non garbage goal in a 7 game series after investing 40m in 4 forwards.

matthews and the leafs can not have the identity of a mackinnon. one is a fast skating centre who is a play maker who can score a lot too. that’s what you need as your best player in the post season. Matthews is the leafs best player who the team will try to force a pass to as he’s primarily proven himself to be a goal scorer. it’s way more predictable. same story with ovi. when they did finally win kuznetsov played like a very elite centre.

i’m not denying nylander has been a clutch player

The thing is, if AM, MM, JT all produce like they do in the regular season, Leafs would had won more than ONE round. Guys that get paid the big money, always tend to produce more in the playoffs but our guys can’t even maintain their regular season level. That’s a huge problem for the Leafs.
we can go on and on about allocation of cap, which I agree but as i said if our top guys just scored at their regular season rate, they might had even won a Cup or two already.

 

[notbias]

Yeah, a new coach is needed because what they've tried in the playoffs clearly doesn't work. Instead of using the strengths of the team, we play like the Islanders under Barry Trotz.



Because the Avs didn't change their play style at all. They attack relentlessly, not sit back and hope for the best.

The Avs are constructed to score... 1/3rd of our team is... we are built very differently.

 

[Bomber0104]

yeah because dubas f***ing sucked...

but andersen let in a whole lot of back breaking goals. Hell he may be the reason that iteration of carolina doesnt have a cup yet

He's their number one goalie right now and they're still in the playoffs.

You know this or not?

He let a perfectly great goalie go for nothing and then acquired Mrazek and Matt Murray for a lot of assets

 

[ruaware41]

This still annoys me.

Does Woll stop this? I think for sure. So of course he had to get himself injured after 2 games. I would have tried Martin Jones over Samsonov - he had better numbers this year.

dude a ryerson goalie probably stops that more often than he doesn’t. it’s that bad. Him folding in a key moment like that at this level completely negates anything else he did this game. I wish this guy the best in his life but there’s no way they can win with him imo unless he completely re invents himself. better to just trade from the team’s perspective.

 

[Divine]

Just FYI he went to round 2 last year, he re-signed Woll, and Tre re-signed Sammy.

Tre didn't re-sign Samsonov. He took him to arbitration because Samsonov refused to take a 1 year deal. Sammy was trying to milk a career year into a long-term contract.

Of course the Leafs accept the arbitration award because he was a .919 goalie last year. Tre told Samsonov to do it again if he wants a long-term deal and Samsonov cleared waivers instead.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

The Avs are constructed to score... 1/3rd of our team is... we are built very differently.

Yeah, they have Makar and Toews who have a high offensive IQ. But even guys like Johnson and Manson are taking risks and trying to push for offense

We do need more offense from the back end, but also a new voice behind the bench to play a better style of hockey

 

[notbias]

Tre didn't re-sign Samsonov. He took him to arbitration because Samsonov refused to take a 1 year deal. Sammy was trying to milk a career year into a long-term contract.

Of course the Leafs accept the arbitration award because he was a .919 goalie last year. Tre told Samsonov to do it again if he wants a long-term deal and Samsonov cleared waivers instead.

I don't blame for re-signing him (that is essentially what happened), I think it was the right move, I just laugh at people blaming Dubas for Sammy when Tre tried to re-sign him nd it triggered arbitration.

 

[WillNy29]

He's their number one goalie right now and they're still in the playoffs.

You know this or not?

He let a perfectly great goalie go for nothing and then acquired Mrazek and Matt Murray for a lot of assets

why are you trying to argue that Dubas was bad lol where did i say he was good? i am confused. I'm saying that dubas, hunter and lou sucked for the leafs

 

[Divine]

dude a ryerson goalie probably stops that more often than he doesn’t. it’s that bad. Him folding in a key moment like that at this level completely negates anything else he did this game. I wish this guy the best in his life but there’s no way they can win with him imo unless he completely re invents himself. better to just trade from the team’s perspective.

That's the debate here. Everyone keeps saying well he only allowed 2 goals, yeah but the 2 goals were both bad goals. It's like we just accept 2 bad goals a game with him because it's only 2, it's ridiculous.

The Pastrnak goal Samsonov did nothing. He watched Pastrnak skate in, let Pastrnak go cross-crease, didn't bother to use his stick at all, and then let Pastrnak beat him to his own far post. Pastrnak didn't even lift the puck, he just beat Samsonov to the post. Woll and Swayman actually use their stick and poke check. Look at how Swayman was challenging the breakaways, he was always using his stick early and it was impossible to beat him low.

In this game alone, Pastrnak beats Samsonov low and then Lindholm beats him high. Samsonov isn't strong anywhere.

 

[notbias]

Yeah, they have Makar and Toews who have a high offensive IQ. But even guys like Johnson and Manson are taking risks and trying to push for offense

We do need more offense from the back end, but also a new voice behind the bench to play a better style of hockey

But how do we play an offensive game on our back end when 1 of them is offensive? Seems like a terrible game plan.

We chose to try to collapse in front of our goalie and block shots, that's all we had.

 

[Divine]

I don't blame for re-signing him (that is essentially what happened), I think it was the right move, I just laugh at people blaming Dubas for Sammy when Tre tried to re-sign him nd it triggered arbitration.

Well, remember, Samsonov fell into Dubas' lap. Dubas masterplan that year was Matt Murray.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yeah, but the Avs play a different game than us in the playoffs. They score more goals and they allow more goals. That's their game.

Keefe prioritizes defense over scoring. Everyone's back and defensively responsible. The Avs don't play that way at all. It's very rare the Avs keep the opponent to under 3 goals. We also don't have a Cale Makar on our team which the Avs transition game relies heavily on.

The main reason why we can’t play like the Avs is bc our top guys just can’t deliver in the playoffs. No matter who the opponents are, our top guys can never take advantage.
Look at AM, yes some C he was match up against were great players but he should still dominate them or at the very least not outplayed but them, yet he was constantly outplayed in the playoffs.
MM rarely do anything in elimination games.
No team can expect their goalie to win games all on his own for 2-1,1-0 games. Goalie can win a game or two with that but the team in front of him still need to score goals and at least score 3 some time in a series.
The issue with the Leafs is still scoring from the top guys. Once that is fixed, the rest will follow.

 

[Bomber0104]

why are you trying to argue that Dubas was bad lol where did i say he was good? i am confused. I'm saying that dubas, hunter and lou sucked for the leafs

It's hard to fault a GM for taking a last placed team to playoffs and then blaming him for what the replacement GM did five years later.

It's insane what you're suggesting.

What Dubas failed to do is entirely on him and him only.

He had five years to make a team and he failed in each and every one of those years and is actually burning us into this year with his ineptitude and incompetence.

Treliving is living with 50% of his capspace scoring a single goal in game 7.

He didn't sign those contracts, but that's what half of his capspace failed to do.

 

[notbias]

It's hard to fault a GM for taking a last placed team to playoffs and then blaming him for what the replacement GM did five years later.

It's insane.

What Dubas failed to do is entirely on him and him only.

We are full of failures that he inherited, but it is all Dubas' fault because he inherited the losers?

This argument always makes sense to me.

 

[Divine]

The main reason why we can’t play like the Avs is bc our top guys just can’t deliver in the playoffs. No matter who the opponents are, our top guys can never take advantage.
Look at AM, yes some C he was match up against were great players but he should still dominate them or at the very least not outplayed but them, yet he was constantly outplayed in the playoffs.
MM rarely do anything in elimination games.
No team can expect their goalie to win games all on his own for 2-1,1-0 games. Goalie can win a game or two with that but the team in front of him still need to score goals and at least score 3 some time in a series.
The issue with the Leafs is still scoring from the top guys. Once that is fixed, the rest will follow.

Colorado has way more depth than us. Lots of teams won the cup 2-1 and 1-0. Tampa was notorious for doing that. St. Louis did that. It happens more often than not that low scoring teams win the cup.

The Avs were the exception, not the rule.

 

[WillNy29]

It's hard to fault a GM for taking a last placed team to playoffs and then blaming him for what the replacement GM did five years later.

It's insane what you're suggesting.

What Dubas failed to do is entirely on him and him only.

He had five years to make a team and he failed in each and every one of those years and is actually burning us into this years with his ineptitude and incompetence.

of course Dubas failed, but Lou signing Marleau seeped that lloser mentality into our core players; that's a huge mistake.

Lou allowing hunter to waste draft picks and let Babcock throw a fit about who to draft caused problems too.

this was a collective effort in failing. Wish the leafs had listened to their scouts and traded down for Rantanen instead who they had for extra meetings

 

[Gabriel426]

That's the debate here. Everyone keeps saying well he only allowed 2 goals, yeah but the 2 goals were both bad goals. It's like we just accept 2 bad goals a game with him because it's only 2, it's ridiculous.

The Pastrnak goal Samsonov did nothing. He watched Pastrnak skate in, let Pastrnak go cross-crease, didn't bother to use his stick at all, and then let Pastrnak beat him to his own far post. Pastrnak didn't even lift the puck, he just beat Samsonov to the post. Woll and Swayman actually use their stick and poke check. Look at Swayman was challenging the breakaways, he was always using his stick early.

I agree that Woll could had save both goals but that still doesn’t mean Leafs would had won the game. We don’t know how Bruins will play with the empty net, maybe they will score there or Leafs score an empty net.
We also don’t know what would happen if the OT kept going.
Then we can point to why did Keefe played the 4th line after scoring a goal.
Or how come MM didn’t even try to block Pastra just a little bit when he enter the zone. Or how Reilly was late reacting to that pass.
Or the fact that if only AM, JT and MM actually score ONE goal in the regulation, the game would had been 2-0 or end with 2-1.
Sad thing is that, I really don’t recall AM, MM and JT having a great scoring chance in the game. I just remembered Willie had a great one in the first period.
We can all point to Sammy letting in goals but what about our top guys didn’t even generate a great chance on Swayman or bury one or two pass Swayman to get a 3-0 lead.

Colorado has way more depth than us. Lots of teams won the cup 2-1 and 1-0. Tampa was notorious for doing that. St. Louis did that. It happens more often than not that low scoring teams win the cup.

The Avs were the exception, not the rule.

Honestly, I am not saying Sammy lost the game what I am saying is that our top guys also lost the game by not scoring.
Both things can be true at the same time.