HFVan Hockey League 2017-18 (Now Up: Nucker101 - 8:45 AM)

[Bgav]

I'm down

 

[PG Canuck]

Is this scoring structure tested against a league as large as the one we're looking at here, with 31 teams and 20-23 man rosters?

For example, I did a quick conversion with Edmonton's forward roster, capturing most of the stats you listed from what's immediately available from the NHL page (no hat trick, SO, or OT A):

Player G/A PP SHP OTG GWG PIM +/- TOTAL
Connor McDavid 400 27 6 3 18 26 27 507
Leon Draisaitl 308 27 0 9 15 20 7 386
Jordan Eberle 204 14 0 0 0 16 3 237
Milan Lucic 200 25 0 0 9 50 -3 281
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 172 11 0 3 12 29 -10 217
Patrick Maroon 168 6 0 0 15 95 13 297
Mark Letestu 140 14 9 3 18 17 -2 199
Zack Kassian 96 0 0 0 0 101 4 201
Drake Caggiula 72 5 3 0 6 16 3 105
Benoit Pouliot 56 0 0 0 3 34 -5 88
Tyler Pitlick 44 0 0 0 3 6 0 53
Anton Slepyshev 40 0 0 0 0 4 5 49
Jesse Puljujarvi 32 1 0 0 0 10 5 48
Matt Hendricks 28 0 0 0 3 29 -3 57
Iiro Pakarinen 16 0 0 0 3 2 2 23
David Desharnais 16 0 0 0 0 6 -1 21
Anton Lander 16 0 0 0 0 6 2 24
Jujhar Khaira 4 0 0 0 3 2 1 10
Taylor Beck 0 0 0 0 0 4 -1 3

I'd think the idea behind such a deep league like this is you want to get as accurate representation of value from top to bottom as you can. But looking at the Edmonton numbers, I'm worried about the PIM spike that makes Kassian worh double Caggiula and equal to Letestu. Letestu has 11 more overall points than Kassian, and for a bottom six guy is loaded in the other point categories, Kass being Kass shouldn't put him up 2 more points.

So first thing I'd suggest is cutting PIM to 0.25 per minute, so goons don't dominate the bottom level.

In that pool, with that scoring structure, Kassian ended up with 223 points and Letestu 221 points. So cut the PIMs to 1 point for 2PIMs and that cuts Kassians 82 pts for penalties in half to 42pts.

Therefore:

Kassian 172 pts
Letestu 223 pts

We could go to something like .50 to cut it back further if needed but don't think it's really been a big issue.

 

[E D]

Hey guys, I'm definitely interested in joining up since there still seems to be a good amount of room!

 

[NeoCanuck]

Thanks for the PM PG!

I'd totally be interested in joining up, for sure.

 

[Addison Rae]

i'm down boys

 

[ahmon]

This isn't an official scoring structure we are proposing, as we are open to listening what everyone has to think, but this is what we go with in another league we are in, and it works great:


Forwards
Goal/Assist: 4 points
PP Point: +1 point
SH Point: +3 points
OT Point: +3 points
GWG: +3 points
PIM: 1 point per minute
+/- : 1 points per each + rating
Hattrick: +3 Points
SO Winning Goal: +1 Point

Defense
Goal/Assist: 5 points
PP Point: +1 point
SH Point: +3 points
OT Point: +3 points
GWG: +3 points
PIM: 1 point per minute
+/- : 1 points per each + rating
Hattrick: +3 points
SO Winning Goal: +1 Point

Goaltenders
Win: 10 points
OTL: 5 points
SO: +10 points
Goal: 99 points
Assist: 10 points
PIM = 1 point per minute


It's simple and easy. I myself am not too fond on hits and blocks, but we could obviously discuss that. This scoring structure has made the good majority of the NHL players valuable though.


This basis of scoring structure has been used for many years, for many different pools and no one has had too much of an issue with it. It's calculated to weigh stars to actually be stars, and depth players to be depth players. That is why I don't like blocks because someone like Kris Russell could be weighed as good as some top 3 defensemen since he blocks so many shots which boosts his value unnecessarily.

Works for me. I'm in.

 

[Pip]

I'm down

 

[Havre]

Cool. I´m in. Got to beat ED someday somewhere.

 

[PG Canuck]

You guys are damn awesome. We weren't expecting this many people right off the hop.

Now that we are already close to 20 GM's, we will be starting to get everything organized since the effort will be much worth it now knowing we have interest.

If you know anyone else on HF who would like to join we are open to adding them in. Our goal is to have a 30 or 31 team league (now that Vegas is coming in).

 

[Pip]

Memes

 

[Tryamkin]

Always down for a keeper, thanks PG.

 

[Canucks LB]

Ill stick it out, why not

 

[Addison Rae]

Im gonna step down, not a fan of the scoring settings.

Good luck tho!

you could always propose your own scoring systems, as PG said nothing is set in stone.

 

[Canucks LB]

you could always propose your own scoring systems, as PG said nothing is set in stone.

I was hoping a h2h league similar to our premiers.

As a start

 

[Nucker101]

Count me in!

 

[Nucker101]

you could always propose your own scoring systems, as PG said nothing is set in stone.

Yeah, I'd like to see PIM's made less valuable but I'm cool with whatever.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I am down to give it a go

 

[Maticus]

Not an active poster, but been a long time lurker. I would like to join, if that's okay?

 

[donut]

Honestly, I'd prefer a more simple system so let me suggest one. Here's a system I've been using for a couple years now with my friends. It's a non-keeper league and we draft every year but it's one we've all been able to agree upon since a few of my friends are casual hockey fans.

Forwards/Defenders
Goal/Assist: 1 points
SH Goal: +1 points
OT Goal: +1 points
GWG: +1 points
PIM: 0.2 point per minute
Hits: 0.2 points per hit
Hattrick: +2 Points
SO Winning Goal: +1 Point

Goaltenders
Win: 3 points
OTL: 1 points
SO: +2 points
Goal: 20 points*
Assist: 5 points
PIM = 0.2 point per minute

*I used to have a ridiculous number (200) for goalie goals but one year my friend drafted a team of all goons and had Mike Smith as a goalie. He ended up winning the pool cause of Smith's goal. Never again please.

I'm personally not a huge fan of the plus/minus stat as I feel it's a very pointless and misleading stat. As for PPG, my friend's argument is "why are we awarding extra points to a player for scoring a goal more easily", which is why I took those stats our of our pool scoring system as well.

I'm still game for any system/idea we end up using but I thought I'd just throw up another system to get some discussion going.

 

[Intoewsables]

Honestly, I'd prefer a more simple system so let me suggest one. Here's a system I've been using for a couple years now with my friends. It's a non-keeper league and we draft every year but it's one we've all been able to agree upon since a few of my friends are casual hockey fans.

Forwards/Defenders
Goal/Assist: 1 points
SH Goal: +1 points
OT Goal: +1 points
GWG: +1 points
PIM: 0.2 point per minute
Hits: 0.2 points per hit
Hattrick: +2 Points
SO Winning Goal: +1 Point

Goaltenders
Win: 3 points
OTL: 1 points
SO: +2 points
Goal: 20 points*
Assist: 5 points
PIM = 0.2 point per minute

*I used to have a ridiculous number (200) for goalie goals but one year my friend drafted a team of all goons and had Mike Smith as a goalie. He ended up winning the pool cause of Smith's goal. Never again please.

I'm personally not a huge fan of the plus/minus stat as I feel it's a very pointless and misleading stat. As for PPG, my friend's argument is "why are we awarding extra points to a player for scoring a goal more easily", which is why I took those stats our of our pool scoring system as well.

I'm still game for any system/idea we end up using but I thought I'd just throw up another system to get some discussion going.

I prefer a simpler scoring system as well, but doesn't this favour forwards over defensemen a little too much? Ideally, I'd like to see something that values them as equally as possible which is why the one PG suggested gives defensemen just a little more for each point.

edit: I agree with dropping plus/minus and PPG, and as I said earlier, the goalie goals as well. Hell, I'd probably make goalie goals even less valuable if it were me. (Didn't want my post to sound too negative )

 

[Nucker101]

Honestly, I'd prefer a more simple system so let me suggest one. Here's a system I've been using for a couple years now with my friends. It's a non-keeper league and we draft every year but it's one we've all been able to agree upon since a few of my friends are casual hockey fans.

Forwards/Defenders
Goal/Assist: 1 points
SH Goal: +1 points
OT Goal: +1 points
GWG: +1 points
PIM: 0.2 point per minute
Hits: 0.2 points per hit
Hattrick: +2 Points
SO Winning Goal: +1 Point

Goaltenders
Win: 3 points
OTL: 1 points
SO: +2 points
Goal: 20 points*
Assist: 5 points
PIM = 0.2 point per minute

*I used to have a ridiculous number (200) for goalie goals but one year my friend drafted a team of all goons and had Mike Smith as a goalie. He ended up winning the pool cause of Smith's goal. Never again please.

I'm personally not a huge fan of the plus/minus stat as I feel it's a very pointless and misleading stat. As for PPG, my friend's argument is "why are we awarding extra points to a player for scoring a goal more easily", which is why I took those stats our of our pool scoring system as well.

I'm still game for any system/idea we end up using but I thought I'd just throw up another system to get some discussion going.

Agree strongly with dropping +/-

 

[HankNDank]

I'd be interested in joining.

 

[HankNDank]

Honestly, I'd prefer a more simple system so let me suggest one. Here's a system I've been using for a couple years now with my friends. It's a non-keeper league and we draft every year but it's one we've all been able to agree upon since a few of my friends are casual hockey fans.

Forwards/Defenders
Goal/Assist: 1 points
SH Goal: +1 points
OT Goal: +1 points
GWG: +1 points
PIM: 0.2 point per minute
Hits: 0.2 points per hit
Hattrick: +2 Points
SO Winning Goal: +1 Point

Goaltenders
Win: 3 points
OTL: 1 points
SO: +2 points
Goal: 20 points*
Assist: 5 points
PIM = 0.2 point per minute

*I used to have a ridiculous number (200) for goalie goals but one year my friend drafted a team of all goons and had Mike Smith as a goalie. He ended up winning the pool cause of Smith's goal. Never again please.

I'm personally not a huge fan of the plus/minus stat as I feel it's a very pointless and misleading stat. As for PPG, my friend's argument is "why are we awarding extra points to a player for scoring a goal more easily", which is why I took those stats our of our pool scoring system as well.

I'm still game for any system/idea we end up using but I thought I'd just throw up another system to get some discussion going.

Just gotta watch out for that short-handed, game winning, hattrick overtime 6 point goal.

I'd bo OK with almost any structure as all GM's are under the same rules, I just really don't want a head to head league with this massive keeper type of format. Way too much work put in to lose in the first round of the playoffs because your star player is DTD with the flu and your 'A' goalie is getting rested before playoffs, or something to that effect.

 

[RandV]

I prefer a simpler scoring system as well, but doesn't this favour forwards over defensemen a little too much? Ideally, I'd like to see something that values them as equally as possible which is why the one PG suggested gives defensemen just a little more for each point.

edit: I agree with dropping plus/minus and PPG, and as I said earlier, the goalie goals as well. Hell, I'd probably make goalie goals even less valuable if it were me. (Didn't want my post to sound too negative )

Judging from the initial sittings posted this league lets you set different stats for forwards/defensemen, so you could put more emphasis on blocks/hits for D without effecting forwards.

I don't really agree with the PP/SH/OT numbers, though I'm on the fence with it. If it were a standard h2h league or evena rotisserie league then yes, but this is a 600+ player point league. So the question is how to make it less like a simple pool and more like a league that tries to simulate a players actual value. Look at Mark Letestu on Edmonton, a bottom 6 guy with that much versatility gets extra rewards for his special team work.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I'm interested. Definitely don't want to draft all the way to a full AHL team though.