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HF's Team Board Mock Draft

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Bluenote13 said:
Lots of folks on the prospects boards have mentioned Salo as one of the underrated dmen in the whole draft, he's not so underrated, rising as the draft gets closer. My guess is he's a top or middle 2nd round pick.
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Yes, but I don't think he will get to the top of the 2nd. When you get to the 2nd round, more and more teams will draft for a need, rather than BPA and that might hurt Salo's chances.

Although more and more Europe-based players are drafted in recent years, a kid from Liiga might not be the one teams go with in the 2nd round when looking for D-men
 
With Hague i just think huge dmen always become overrated by scouts because they are difficult to scout at that age with that competition.

Scouting them is difficult. It's hard to look at a guy with his size and reach positionally and say he will or wont get away with that in the NHL. How many times have we seen guys like chara, tyler myers, and andrej sustr, in poor position be saved by their reach? Idk, this could be a point either way(for/against)

Everything begins to get qualifiers and then some how those qualifiers seems to die out over the game of telephone reporting on the players.
-I.E. "He's a good skater for his size" turns into "He's a good skater"

Chara comparisons. Its human nature. I'm sorry but you wont convince me every GM or scout looks at a huge kid like that and thinks "I can't be the guy that missed out on the next chara for a scrub" Even if its not that intense, it's in the back of peoples mind.

I'm not a fan of drafting players for Size, thats how you get Dylan Mcilraith. I'd rather take a speedy puck mover. The trend of the NHL is Speed + Skill > Size + Grit
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
Ceiling is a top pairing D-man, more realistic is a middle pairing PP guy, floor is he busts. But i think him busting completely is pretty unlikely given his skating and hockey IQ.

Comparisons; Timonen, Gostisbehere, Krug, Campbell.
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Thanks. Kostin and Brannstrom are my top2. Would be great if one of them falls to Rangers, but I think they will both be gone before 21. pick.
 
offdacrossbar said:
swedes work too. :nod:


assuming the shoulder checks out, and they will check it out to make sure the surgery corrected the problem, i wouldn't worry about it. he's a big guy at 6'3 and over 200 lbs. he should heal and be fine.

once you remove the shoulder- assuming healthy, and ignore the "russian factor" stuff, you are left with this:

a hulking, highly skilled, high energy and highly responsible guy with enormous upside. his combination of high puck skills, skating and the ability to play a very "north american" game is unique. this isnt a one trick pony russian scorer. this is a kid who can both create and score with dangle or with brute force in tight.

this is exactly the type of blue chip offensive difference maker we have lacked for, well..... for ever.

if not for the shoulder and the russian thing, he probably goes top 5 and certainly top 10 easy.

you get a chance to grab him at 21. you do it. no offense to brannstrom- mhos a very nice if slightly undersized prospect, but it isnt really that close.

you have to take the highest rated, best player available. kostin.
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Once you remove all of the major negatives, you are left with just positives!
 
Hunter Gathers said:
Once you remove all of the major negatives, you are left with just positives!
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sounds alot like tarasenko to me

major negatives = excuses

russian factor
won't come over
one dimensional
the cherepanov thing

if the shoulder comes back an issue, then i pass on health issues.

if he's healthy, i think he's the best player available and there is no real negative then at all
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
The shoulder injury is definitely a negative, but Russian factor? What year are we living in?
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sounds good. really does. what year we living in ? :laugh: good one. problem is, you're wrong.

read all the kostin draft previews. many mention the russian factor verbatim.

i would find more but i dont have the time.

http://www.dobberprospects.com/klim-kostin

March 2017 – Kostin is a big strong powerful offensive winger with a high skill set and excellent skating ability. The Russian factor should play heavily in his draft status as the CHL first overall pick in 2016 refused to report to the Kootenay Ice which should raise some red flags


http://www.jacketscannon.com/2017/5...-profile-could-klim-kostin-fall-into-the-blue

Aside from his on-ice attributes, folks have also pointed out that he - like many Russians before him - might not sign right away with a North American team, and if there's one thing the Jackets (or anyone) wants to avoid, its using a first-round pick on a player who won't venture across the ocean.

https://bluelinestation.com/2017/05/21/new-york-rangers-2017-draft-profiles-klim-kostin/

Sometimes, skilled prospects drop in the draft inexplicably. Occasionally, it is because they’re viewed as weak defensively. Sometimes, its attitude issues. Other times, it’s the dreaded “Russian factorâ€. Whether there is basis to these reasons or not, the New York Rangers have taken advantage of droppers in the past and, most of the time, wildly succeeded.

http://www.rawcharge.com/2017/5/7/15570010/2017-nhl-draft-tampa-bay-lightning-klim-kostin

One of the issues that always seems to linger in the background with Russian prospects is their signability. Does Kostin want to come to North America or does he want to stay in the KHL
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
odc is the one who even mentions the russian factor. I doubt it's an issue these days, other than the KHL not being scouted enough.
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its an issue.

and i gotta laugh.

all the peeps here wanting radulov or a player similar to radulov. well, thats kostin but bigger.

think radulov and malkin. thats his game.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
And what exactly is the "Russian factor" according to you?
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its a general negative bias towards russian players based solely on the fear that a draft pick may choose to stay home and play in the K rather than come here and play.

in a nutshell, the KHL option allows that player to leverage the team who drafts them and gauge which of those 2 options is best for their career. if they choose to stay in the K, that team essentially "wastes" a high pick.

russian factor is generally associated with the phrase "not coming over".

those factors that young russians consider are the enormous tax savings, playing at home in front of friends and family, playing in the 2nd best league in the world and avoiding playing in the AHL.
 
offdacrossbar said:
its a general negative bias towards russian players based solely on the fear that a draft pick may choose to stay home and play in the K rather than come here and play.

in a nutshell, the KHL option allows that player to leverage the team who drafts them and gauge which of those 2 options is best for their career. if they choose to stay in the K, that team essentially "wastes" a high pick.

russian factor is generally associated with the phrase "not coming over".

those factors that young russians consider are the enormous tax savings, playing at home in front of friends and family, playing in the 2nd best league in the world and avoiding playing in the AHL.
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I really think that is a myth, honestly. How many Russians have refused to come over after being drafted? I am not talking about Russians never signing after being drafted but specifically Russian players who were offered a contract and turned it down.

Guys like Mozyakin, as far as I know, were never offered a contract when the NHL team had their rights
 
offdacrossbar said:
its a general negative bias towards russian players based solely on the fear that a draft pick may choose to stay home and play in the K rather than come here and play.

in a nutshell, the KHL option allows that player to leverage the team who drafts them and gauge which of those 2 options is best for their career. if they choose to stay in the K, that team essentially "wastes" a high pick.

russian factor is generally associated with the phrase "not coming over".

those factors that young russians consider are the enormous tax savings, playing at home in front of friends and family, playing in the 2nd best league in the world and avoiding playing in the AHL.
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FWIW I think there are at least a few teams that are very leery of using a 1st on a Russian player but some of their concerns don't come out of nowhere. The aforementioned Radulov did his countrymen no favors when he left Nashville before his contract was up...and you could almost say the same for Kovalchuk leveraging his trade out of Atlanta and then leaving New Jersey. There have been a couple other problem players though generally speaking the majority of Russian players do well and are not a problem to their teams at all.

Another thing that can be factored here though is if the KHL is having financial problems it makes it more likely that young Russian players will want to come to North America--and they'll be more likely to do it sooner than later if that situation does go awry . We missed out on Tarasenko and to my mind if Kostin is there at 21 I'd rather not make the same kind of mistake though admittedly Brannstrom would no doubt make a very good consolation prize.
 
eco's bones said:
FWIW I think there are at least a few teams that are very leery of using a 1st on a Russian player but some of their concerns don't come out of nowhere. The aforementioned Radulov did his countrymen no favors when he left Nashville before his contract was up...and you could almost say the same for Kovalchuk leveraging his trade out of Atlanta and then leaving New Jersey. There have been a couple other problem players though generally speaking the majority of Russian players do well and are not a problem to their teams at all.

Another thing that can be factored here though is if the KHL is having financial problems it makes it more likely that young Russian players will want to come to North America--and they'll be more likely to do it sooner than later if that situation does go awry . We missed out on Tarasenko and to my mind if Kostin is there at 21 I'd rather not make the same kind of mistake though admittedly Brannstrom would no doubt make a very good consolation prize.
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good points.

you are right about the financials in the K. some teams are loaded and some teams pay checks bounce.

as for the tarasenko thing, yes its always there under the surface but you dont draft a russian just because of missing on tarasenko or kuznetsov for that matter.

you draft the best player available at 21 and if in fact a healthy klim kostin with a good shoulder is still there, thats the guy you gotta take.

im not sure many here are aware of the player he actually is. for us to even have a chance at him at 21 is remarkable as there are still opinions that he's still in that 3-5 range right now. today.

hes a top 5 talent and has been and continues to be the top rated euro skater on many boards.

brannstrom is a fine prospect. if he were 6 ft and 190 he would be top 10. he's not and so thats why he's shown in the 20's.
 
offdacrossbar said:
good points.

you are right about the financials in the K. some teams are loaded and some teams pay checks bounce.

as for the tarasenko thing, yes its always there under the surface but you dont draft a russian just because of missing on tarasenko or kuznetsov for that matter.

you draft the best player available at 21 and if in fact a healthy klim kostin with a good shoulder is still there, thats the guy you gotta take.

im not sure many here are aware of the player he actually is. for us to even have a chance at him at 21 is remarkable as there are still opinions that he's still in that 3-5 range right now. today.

hes a top 5 talent and has been and continues to be the top rated euro skater on many boards.

brannstrom is a fine prospect. if he were 6 ft and 190 he would be top 10. he's not and so thats why he's shown in the 20's.
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If Brännström was 6' 190lbs he'd be in contention for #1 overall.
 
To be honest, I'd be happy with either of them. We lack defensemen with high potential (except for Day maaaybe) and we have no high end talent forward prospect in the system that's not already on the team. So if we leave this draft with Kostin or Brannstrom, I'll be ecstatic.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
If Brännström was 6' 190lbs he'd be in contention for #1 overall.
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like me saying he would be top 10 if he were bigger and right now at best in the 20's, yours is but an opinion. i happen to agree he would be higher. but 1OA ?? probably not.

hes a very nice prospect for sure and one of my top 3 realistic targets at the 21 spot.

i like kostin the best based solely on his measurables, skill, skating and compete level. i would rank all of those attributes very high. he's is a very unique talent.

he checks all the boxes for sure but he is far from perfect and not without some bust potential, albeit minimal.
 
SnowFort said:
To be honest, I'd be happy with either of them. We lack defensemen with high potential (except for Day maaaybe) and we have no high end talent forward prospect in the system that's not already on the team. So if we leave this draft with Kostin or Brannstrom, I'll be ecstatic.
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That's a good way to look at it. Depending on who is available, it could could be a great injection into our prospect pool. After all these years with players like Kreider, Miller, Del Zotto, Staal etc being selected in the first round, I want us to get that player who will revitalize our team for years to come. A Getzlaf/Tarasenko/Kucherov type pick.
 
Yeah, aslong as management goes for high end skill i'm happy in the end. Be it Brännström, Liljegren or any other high upside D-man or an F like Kostin, Yamamoto or Suzuki...

Go for the high end skill because we completely lack that in your prospect pool right now.

I love Day but i wouldn't label him as that.
 
offdacrossbar said:
like me saying he would be top 10 if he were bigger and right now at best in the 20's, yours is but an opinion. i happen to agree he would be higher. but 1OA ?? probably not.

hes a very nice prospect for sure and one of my top 3 realistic targets at the 21 spot.

i like kostin the best based solely on his measurables, skill, skating and compete level. i would rank all of those attributes very high. he's is a very unique talent.

he checks all the boxes for sure but he is far from perfect and not without some bust potential, albeit minimal.
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I think we're very close in our mindset, just that you have Kostin as your guy who you think is absolutely amazing where i have Brännström instead :)

In the end we both want NYR to go for the high end skill guy, not the safe two-way guy.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
I think we're very close in our mindset, just that you have Kostin as your guy who you think is absolutely amazing where i have Brännström instead :)

In the end we both want NYR to go for the high end skill guy, not the safe two-way guy.
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We are trading Raanta for a 1st. We will draft both, obviously
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
I think we're very close in our mindset, just that you have Kostin as your guy who you think is absolutely amazing where i have Brännström instead :)

In the end we both want NYR to go for the high end skill guy, not the safe two-way guy.
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um, how about the high end skill 2 way guy ? :laugh:

im also not adverse to trading down if all our top guys are gone. there are quite a few gems out there I've got my eye on that are solidly in the top 120. more picks isnt a terrible thing.

this will be an exciting draft.
 
offdacrossbar said:
um, how about the high end skill 2 way guy ? :laugh:

im also not adverse to trading down if all our top guys are gone. there are quite a few gems out there I've got my eye on that are solidly in the top 120. more picks isnt a terrible thing.

this will be an exciting draft.
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Every draft is exciting. Joey will agree ;)
 
I'm pretty much always for trading down.
My motto unless there's some very special circumstance is always trade down, never trade up.
 
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