HFBoards TOP 50 Prospects Ranking #33 (closed)
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Golden_Jet
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- Sep 21, 2005
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Well Bonk was better and produced more, with the Knights right after he was drafted than Mailloux was in his second season after being drafted.
Not as far fetched as you make it sound,
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stl76
No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
- Jul 2, 2015
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I don’t see much separating Willander and Lindstein other than handedness and draft position. When all is said and done, I am pretty confident Lindstein will have a better career in the NHL than Axel Sandin-Pelikka.
Frankly, I think ASP gets overrated by people blinded by the accolades. He was, at best, the 3rd best defenseman for Sweden at the WJC. Him winning best dman of the tournament was…a choice. From what I understand, ASP wasn’t on his SHL team’s top pairing and again wasn’t the best dman on his team. Him winning best Swedish dman in the SHL (not best dman, best Swedish dman…an important distinction) seems pretty dubious to me. If ASP’s power play goal scoring translates to the NHL, then he may be a force in the league. If it doesn’t, he’s in trouble IMO.
Lindstein on the other hand just has an elite brain. Good physical tools, but he is able to process the game and move the puck like few players I’ve ever seen. You really have to watch him to appreciate his game.
fact of the matter is, about 25 other prospects could be voted in here at 32 and it would be possible to conjure up a valid argument for each. I have nothing against Willander or Lekk, but facts are facts, the same people who voted to Willander are voting for Lekk immediately after. I guarantee you its no coincidence. (Same thing happened after Hutson, many of the same voters went straight to Reinbacher)
I voted for Lambert, he put up an impressive 55P in 64GP at age 19/20 in the AHL. A little light right now, but will fill in his 6'1 frame sooner than later.
its not, I just stated a fact. Same posters who voted Wilander last poll then voted for Lekk the following poll.
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strattonius
Registered User
That's exactly what I said as well, though? At this point it is very muddled on who the next best prospect is and every fanbase favours their own players. It's no coincidence all the Oilers fans are voting Savoie too but no problem because he hasn't won a vote?
Doesn't sound like you have much of a point at all except to say you're annoyed the player you're choosing hasn't gone yet.
MasterMatt25
Registered User
Lekkerimaki wouldn't be my top choice but it's understandable
I'm just not fond of Willander's game
Explain how I appear "annoyed" that Lambert isnt getting voted. I seriously couldnt care less.... Youre the one thats very obviously annoyed and being very defensive about me pointing out that Canuck fans are just voting for their players here. You even go as far to try justify it with your long analysis for each, as if we couldnt do the same for 25 other prospects. When the Habs homers were doing the same, guess what? I was annoyed, and pointed it out too. (see my location)
Yes I noticed Savoie is getting Oiler fan votes. I didnt mention it because there was no post suggesting that Savoie was getting too many votes. What I did notice is Cancuks fans voting for their team's prospect twice in a row. Again, not a coincidence. Thats all.
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Man, it seems like so many here know every prospect in the league in depth and don't focus on their favorite teams prospects at all.
All of the Devils prospects should go next, Trust me. I know prospects.
All of the Devils prospects should go next, Trust me. I know prospects.
ASP played 22 minutes a night and put up 2+5 in 14 games on his way to an SHL title at 18 years old
No accolades needed
True but anyone who actually watched both knows there isn't a huge difference between the two. Luneau may honestly have higher upside but I'd vote for Zellweger just because Luneau missed significant time. A lot of these votes/candidates are based on pure upside.
Just Linda
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- Feb 24, 2018
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The fact Savoie has 14 votes and Yager has 3 is absurd.
Yager is better currently than Savoie despite being a year younger.
Savoie should not go ahead of Firkus either.
Yager is better currently than Savoie despite being a year younger.
Savoie should not go ahead of Firkus either.
I am a big ASP fan... I thought he was very good in the international tournaments I saw him play in. His mobility is incredible, and he has a great hockey IQ. I thought he was better than Willander and Lindstein and he deserved his award, playing top minutes and dominating the play. Fact he was voted best swedish D in the SHL as a 18 y old (turned 19 in March) is very, very impressive as well.
I respect your opinion, but might the fact Lindstein is a St-Louis prospect cloud your judgement by any chance?
strattonius
Registered User
I think from 20-50 is a huge mish-mash of players. Willander and Lekkerimaki in this 30ish range isn't a stretch at all.
I just don't see the separation between the prospects and me showing each players accomplishments and skill sets is a better way of making an argument for a player rather than just saying 'this is biased what a joke look at who's still left'.
biturbo19
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- Jul 13, 2010
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I mean...the expectation for future top scorers in the AHL is extremely high. Making the jump earlier provides a little more wiggle room...but there was just a huge argument in the Canucks forum about Lekkerimaki, and the fact that...the expectation if he's still tracking well, is essentially PPG. That's what the vast majority of future Top-6 scorers pace as, if they even hit the AHL or stay any length of time in the AHL at all. More of them just leapfrog over that level altogether. Especially scoring wingers. They either move up levels quickly, or they're far more likely to stagnate or struggle to find their way to the league, and become a quality Top-6 scoring winger.
I think Lambert's transition to the AHL is solid. But it's hardly the stepping stone some people make it out to be. Really good prospects do tend to skip that level more or less altogether. Nothing wrong with spending a year or so there. But the biggest jump is to the NHL level. Where...if Lambert isn't making the jump this year, even in Winnipeg's kind of "slow paced" development approach, it's actually a bit of concern creeping in. And i'm not fully convinced that Lambert is ready, or going to make the jump right out of the gate this year.
Whereas Willander...i really wouldn't be surprised to see him get actual NHL games in before the NHL season is done, and very possibly crack the team out of camp next year.
Lekky is more...people really liked how much he scored last year after a really awful D+1 season. And he happens to be the sort of "flashy scoring prospect" that people love at that point of their development.
As for the same people voting Willander jumping to Lekkerimaki...there's certainly a little bit of that. But by my quick count, it's ~33% or a third of that voting block that jumped. Hardly the whole thing. ~66% or the significant majority of Willander voters actually either jumped to someone else entirely, or didn't vote in the next round. I don't see it being as significant as say...the Lane Hutson effect.
I think you have it backwards. My guess is that AHL scoring at age 20 is actually more predictive than SHL scoring at that age.
For instance, Emil Bemstrom scored more than Lekkerimaki just did, at that same age.
Beyond that, Lambert has elite skating ability and ranginess that Lekkerimaki doesn't have.
Agreed on Willander, I'd take him ahead of Lambert and well ahead of Lekkerimaki
Pavels Dog
Registered User
"He wasn't his team's best d-man" is a pretty crazy argument against an 18 year old in the SHL when you're arguing in favor of the 18 year old in Allsvenskan who was much further away from being his team's best d-man.
biturbo19
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AHL scoring at a young age is certainly predictive, and maybe more so than SHL scoring at that age. But the point is...out of that scoring, i'm still not convinced Lambert is going to immediately make the jump. Which is really the more predictive aspect. He did the thing at the AHL level in terms of scoring at a young age, more or less. But...if he loiters further there, it's a reflection on a prospect that has other significant flaws that need to be ironed out. A lesser prospect. Better prospects spend less time at the AHL level (particularly when we're talking Top-6 or Bust Scoring Wingers - rather than "stay at home defencemen" or whatever.
Hard to say what really happens with Lambert. Mostly just saying...he's in a similar bin to Lekkerimaki for me. Just...Lekky is approaching a different landmark transition this year instead. Gun to my head, i actually probably like Lambert more. But there's easily well over a dozen prospects still up here that i'd take well before either.
Age 20 is too early to fuss over whether the player will be taking too much time in the AHL.
Just one of many examples - Evan Bouchard didn't make the NHL full time until his D+4 season.
biturbo19
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Bouchard is a defenceman, and an offensive-minded one with some substantial defensive shortcomings though. Like i said, it's a little more understandable when defencemen take a little longer to linger at that AHL developmental level. Though it's still usually not a great sign.
And more importantly...Bouchard didn't linger at the AHL level at all. He was pretty much a "one and done" case. Kind of weird development because of other outside circumstances dipping out to Europe for a minute, but the point is...he more or less blitzed through that intermediate level between Juniors and NHL Pro.
And that's a defenceman, which again...sometimes take a little bit longer. With guys like Lambert and Lekkerimaki, we're talking about Top-6 or Bust scoring wingers. These guys typically either find a way to score early and often at that level, or they plateau and often completely bust. Lambert has already cleared that first hurdle by being a productive AHLer, top scorer on his team, etc. The question left is...will he make the jump now that he's done that...or will his other shortcomings keep him stalled at the AHL level longer?
Entirely possible he cracks the Jets lineup. But i'm not altogether convinced that'll happen. Because there are still other holes in his game that could hold him back.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
On the flip side it was Lekkerimäki's true 19 year old season, it was Lambert's 20 year old season.
Last year, Lambert had 3 points in 14 AHL games and 1 point in 5 WJC games.
The same-level comparison for Lekkerimäki is 2 points in 6 AHL games and 10 points in 7 WJC games.
In terms of how predictive SHL/AHL scoring is I think both need heavy contexualization to be meaningful. But I can tell you Lekkerimäki's skill and tools are on a different level than Bemström's. At the end of the day I'd probably put Lekkerimäki ahead of both Willander and Lambert, but all 3 would be in a similar tier for me.
John Garretts KD
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- Aug 4, 2024
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Results appear to be largely based on the prospects’ fanbases. Seems like there are more Edmonton than Pittsburgh fans here.
stl76
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How much of that 22 minutes was power play time? How many were PP points? ASP’s shot from the point on the power play has been effective against junior and SHL goalies…it’s really hard to score from distance in the NHL and I’m not sure ASP will be able to distribute the puck at a high enough level to earn PP1 minutes if his shot is not as effective at the next level.
Then he’s got to worry about playing solid enough defense as a 5’10 kid against NHLers to gain a coach’s trust to be counted on in a top 4 & PP1 quarterback role. He’s a good prospect, but I think he is being overrated a fair bit. I see quite a bit of risk with him.
The Lindstein - Willander pairing was by far Sweden’s most effective at the 2024 WJC. I watched every second of every team Sweden game, and frankly it wasn’t particularly close. They went up against other teams top lines and played the top minutes 5v5.
And the numbers back up the eye test in this case. Lindstein - Willander pairing scored more and had better +/-. They also largely played higher TOI. There were some games where ASP had higher TOI, but you’ll notice that his most common partner did not have higher TOI in those games…this was because those were games where Sweden was behind and putting out ASP late to try to get a goal or there were a lot of penalties and ASP was eating up lots of PP time.
Watch Lindstein play. He puts up good counting stats, but his game is understated and really needs to be watched in order to be appreciated. He is not as flashy as ASP but he thinks the game at an elite level and the puck is on and off his stick (usually a tape to tape pass to the correct read/open teammate) very quickly.
Are we voting based on who is closest to the NHL right now or who we think will ultimately be a better player?
So we’re going to discount an entire season of shl in favor of 7 games at the world juniors?
