Player Discussion Henrik Lundqvist

[Hunter Gathers]

Just for the record, since the injury was re-aggrevated in October, why didn't the Rangers LTIR him then in order to preserve his remaining years?

Seems kinda weird to just want to LTIR him once the Rangers were out of a playoff spot, if the goal was to preserve his health for the long haul.

Because while he could physically play if needed during the year, the team was still competitive then. I actually would've been fine with resting him in October as well (or at least not starting him as much). Part of the problem was that our back-up situation was a complete dumpster fire, though.

I don't see how we can compare October and February/March, though. One is early in the year when we still have all our pieces. The other is after we've sold off. The risk/reward scenario exists in October where we can still make the playoffs. Keeping the guy going after we've sold off was moronic.

Now, I'm not sure who gets the blame. Does AV get the blame for this? Did Gorton know the full medicals and allowed AV to keep trotting Hank out? Did Hank underplay the issue? I really have no clue (notice how you don't see me blaming Hank at all, here, since I have zero clue what was going on behind the scenes).

I'd say this about any important player. I don't see the need to play an important player with a large cap hit for the sake of it. I was very glad when they ended Shatty's comeback attempt as well. Just zero reason to risk anything.

I think you (this is not just YOU, but all of us) need to ask a simple question, here. Is Hank an important part of the future?

To me, if the answer is "Yes" (and I'd say it's "Yes" to everyone other than maybe one or two guys on here that are out to lunch), then it's complete malpractice to keep trotting a clearly injured guy out game after game once we sold our rentals off.

 

[Ori]

Because Gorton`s rebuild plan started 3 years too early consider Henrik is still here and a rebuild with him is kind of difficult since he is one of the best goalies in NHL. And that`s why I was against the whole Ryan Mc. deal with Tampa. J.T Miller had 3 pts + a goal last night, and Ryan Mc. 3 pts as well so it look kind of a robbery when Nam is not performing, and we have yet to see about our future prospect in Libor & Brett.

 

[kovazub94]

That's factually untrue. We've seen now that he's still not recovered enough to play in the Worlds. He easily could've missed 10 games/24 days for this injury since the WC doesn't start until May 4th. I get that this may seem difficult. But I assure you that it's not. It's actually quite simple. Please learn how LTIR works before you comment to me again.

Thanks!

By the way, the irony here is that kovazub is so poorly grasping this as Georgiev was giving us largely similar play as Hank was. So the idea that LTIR'ing Hank would cause us to lose every game is completely ridiculous. We'd spare Hank's knee (which I think he needs going forward, although if we can amputate his leg and still get value out of him perhaps I am wrong) and get an extended look at Georgiev. I doubt we lose more than two or three more games than we did otherwise.

But no. Clearly it would only be for the tank. Of course.

(And the belief that picking at 5 or so versus 8 is that much better than the long-term health of our ****ing $8M goalie with numerous years left on his deal in a cap league is utterly laughable, too. So let's not forget that crazy amount of bull**** that he conveniently glosses over in his poor attempt at a rebuttal.)

Twisting words again, passive aggressive posts, as per usual.

First, it was actually anti-tank folks point that forcing tanking to pick 5th or "naturally" getting 8th doesn't really matter. This was Hank's message about letting scouts do their job (and that message got twisted as well).

But you can only hear yourself and continue with your shtick of twisting facts. If you're so worried about long-term health of the team's prized $8M goalie then we go back to @nevesis original point - why not shutting him down in October if this is your primary, team-oriented concern?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Twisting words again, passive aggressive posts, as per usual.

I didn't twist anything. I'm just annoyed that you, invariably, ignore an abundance of posts to suit your weird agenda in trying to "get" me. It hasn't worked out for you yet and I can assure you it won't work out for you going forward.

First, it was actually anti-tank folks point that forcing tanking to pick 5th or "naturally" getting 8th doesn't really matter. This was Hank's message about letting scouts do their job (and that message got twisted as well).

OK?

But you can only hear yourself and continue with your shtick of twisting facts. If you're so worried about long-term health of the team's prized $8M goalie then we go back to @nevesis original point - why not shutting him down in October if this is your primary, team-oriented concern?

Please cite what I twisted and when. I'll wait.

Also, I addressed nev. While he and I disagree on many aspects, he's actually able to generally follow a conversation and won't outright ignore a multitude of posts to try and make a point.

 

[kovazub94]

Because while he could physically play if needed during the year, the team was still competitive then. I actually would've been fine with resting him in October as well (or at least not starting him as much). Part of the problem was that our back-up situation was a complete dumpster fire, though.

I don't see how we can compare October and February/March, though. One is early in the year when we still have all our pieces. The other is after we've sold off. The risk/reward scenario exists in October where we can still make the playoffs. Keeping the guy going after we've sold off was moronic.

Now, I'm not sure who gets the blame. Does AV get the blame for this? Did Gorton know the full medicals and allowed AV to keep trotting Hank out? Did Hank underplay the issue? I really have no clue (notice how you don't see me blaming Hank at all, here, since I have zero clue what was going on behind the scenes).

I'd say this about any important player. I don't see the need to play an important player with a large cap hit for the sake of it. I was very glad when they ended Shatty's comeback attempt as well. Just zero reason to risk anything.

I think you (this is not just YOU, but all of us) need to ask a simple question, here. Is Hank an important part of the future?

To me, if the answer is "Yes" (and I'd say it's "Yes" to everyone other than maybe one or two guys on here that are out to lunch), then it's complete malpractice to keep trotting a clearly injured guy out game after game once we sold our rentals off.

And now we are back full circle to integrity point.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Because Gorton`s rebuild plan started 3 years too early consider Henrik is still here and a rebuild with him is kind of difficult since he is one of the best goalies in NHL. And that`s why I was against the whole Ryan Mc. deal with Tampa. J.T Miller had 3 pts + a goal last night, and Ryan Mc. 3 pts as well so it look kind of a robbery when Nam is not performing, and we have yet to see about our future prospect in Libor & Brett.

Based on what? How in the world did the rebuild start early? The team needed to be gutted because our older young guys were aging and our older players needed to be moved. Why the hell would we wait to get some value for players before they walked (Nash, Grabner) or before their contracts needed to be renegotiated to the stratosphere (McD)? That makes absolutely no sense.

If anything, the team needed a rebuild a while ago and we just went normal Rangers with patchwork fixes.

You know. The same point that @Edge and I have talked about in that, in typical Rangers fashion, an actual rebuild is unlikely.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

And now we are back full circle to integrity point.

. . . no. I don't think you know how LTIR works. At all.

 

[Ori]

The deal with Tampa looks really bad @Hunter Gathers - how can you fix that?
The fact is we need to draft a 1D defender talent who need years to develop, because very few teams in this league will move their top prospects in their farm system.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The deal with Tampa looks really bad @Hunter Gathers - how can you fix that?

I was unaware that we already squandered the picks and prospects we got from Tampa. Did they all die or something?

Did we just fail to make the picks? Did we trade the picks/prospects for the corpse of Barret Jackman? How did I miss this?

 

[JimmyG89]

This cannot be that hard to grasp:

Once the team was out of the playoffs, there were about -100 reasons to play Lundqvist. The fact he was injured was actually more than enough to actually not play him at all, let him recover, have a normal summer, and be ready for October 2018.

In October, there is still a chance to rebound, even though we saw what was going on. Yes, he would have come back at roughly 100% at some point, but everyone involved decided to have him continue to play. Same thing happened with Shattenkirk. Only difference is that he shut it down in January and he should have a normal summer.

Now, our current best player (an issue to itself) is a 36 year old goalie, who is going to be rehabbing an injury for the beginning of his offseason.

We could have had this done a month ago, he'd have gotten his treatment, recovered, and be ready for the summer to train. Now, this will get in his way.

 

[Ori]

We will see in the 2018 draft, but the Tampa deal don`t look great at the moment. Libor might have top 4 potential, but I really doubt he is a 1 D talent - hence we need to draft and develop him which take years to fill that huge hole Ryan Mc. created when Gorton moved him.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

This cannot be that hard to grasp:

Once the team was out of the playoffs, there were about -100 reasons to play Lundqvist. The fact he was injured was actually more than enough to actually not play him at all, let him recover, have a normal summer, and be ready for October 2018.

In October, there is still a chance to rebound, even though we saw what was going on. Yes, he would have come back at roughly 100% at some point, but everyone involved decided to have him continue to play. Same thing happened with Shattenkirk. Only difference is that he shut it down in January and he should have a normal summer.

Now, our current best player (an issue to itself) is a 36 year old goalie, who is going to be rehabbing an injury for the beginning of his offseason.

We could have had this done a month ago, he'd have gotten his treatment, recovered, and be ready for the summer to train. Now, this will get in his way.

Thank you. It's mindblowing that kov doesn't get this. Although I will give him the benefit of the doubt, here. He can't be this out to lunch, so I think he's purposefully trying to spin it (all while getting dragged in the process) since he's so desperate for a "gotcha!" moment with me. Numerous attempts, now, and he's slowly learning that's not going to happen.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

We will see in the 2018 draft, but the Tampa deal don`t look great at the moment. Libor might have top 4 potential, but I really doubt he is a 1 D talent - hence we need to draft and develop him which take years to fill that huge hole Ryan Mc. created when Gorton moved him.

Again, did all the picks and prospects die?

You simply cannot judge this trade from our POV for at least a few seasons.

Hell, I hope that Tampa blows through everyone and wins a Cup so we can get the second first round pick. Let Miller go APE on everyone.

 

[kovazub94]

I didn't twist anything. I'm just annoyed that you, invariably, ignore an abundance of posts to suit your weird agenda in trying to "get" me. It hasn't worked out for you yet and I can assure you it won't work out for you going forward.

"Abundance of posts" - yup, you definitely generate the volume. "agenda in trying to "get" you" - now you're just being paranoid. It is really the same general "agenda" as when certain other posters are being called out for their bullshit. You know who I'm referring to.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

"Abundance of posts" - yup, you definitely generate the volume. "agenda in trying to "get" you" - now you're just being paranoid. It is really the same general "agenda" as when certain other posters are being called out for their bull****. You know who I'm referring to.

Actually, I don't. I couldn't glean it from the rambling, poor grammar, and overuse of quotes.

 

[Ori]

It`s my view on it at the moment after last Tampa game 3 pts for Ryan Mc. only in the playoffs, and J.T Miller breaking out with a new team, and has his best playoffs performance in his career last evening.
Anyway we don`t know yet concerning Brett & Libor, and maybe we hit in the 2019 draft with that Tampa pick. But my point is if we need to draft a 1D future talent and someone to replace Ryan Mc. it takes a while to develop him.

 

[JimmyG89]

We will see in the 2018 draft, but the Tampa deal don`t look great at the moment. Libor might have top 4 potential, but I really doubt he is a 1 D talent - hence we need to draft and develop him which take years to fill that huge hole Ryan Mc. created when Gorton moved him.

Can't look at a trade for futures and say it looks bad 3 months after it happened.

Howden has a chance to be a 2nd line center (nothing to scoff at). Hajek has a chance to fill in a 2nd pair, maybe be a #3 type D. A late first, is a late 1st until we take someone. Look at what happened with players like Tolvanen, Chytil, Kostin, etc. Guys will drop in the 1st and we can scoop them.

We hoped that we could get McDonagh eventual replacement with the assets returned in his deal, but at the same time, it was never going to happen.

Hell, we got McDonagh for nothing. He was a lottery pick, but he wasn't even the headlining piece in his deal. Who knows what will happen.

I'll grade out the McDonagh deal in 2-3 years. For now, we got 2 prospects and possibly 2 firsts for him and a player management soured on and didn't want to pay over $5MM for (Miller).

 

[Ori]

Yes I know, I just dislike to see x Rangers playing playoffs - the deal value wise and concerning the future is unknown - so I understand Gorton why he did it, and I`m fine with the Nash & Grabner deals as well.

 

[Edge]

Way too early to tell on any of trades, TB especially.

I think we received close to fair value in the trade. There were some components I would've tweaked, but overall it was a fair return.

Now, whether the trade will actually WORK remains to be seen.

 

[kovazub94]

Actually, I don't. I couldn't glean it from the rambling, poor grammar, and overuse of quotes.

Ah, back to passive aggressive - I guess you missed my obvious references of growing up in another country.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Way too early to tell on any of trades, TB especially.

I think we received close to fair value in the trade. There were some components I would've tweaked, but overall it was a fair return.

Now, whether the trade will actually WORK remains to be seen.

Right, that's my view, too. The return was largely fine. It's now on our scouts and management to make the best of the return.

 

[JimmyG89]

Thank you. It's mindblowing that kov doesn't get this. Although I will give him the benefit of the doubt, here. He can't be this out to lunch, so I think he's purposefully trying to spin it (all while getting dragged in the process) since he's so desperate for a "gotcha!" moment with me. Numerous attempts, now, and he's slowly learning that's not going to happen.

Did I want him to get 30 wins this season, of course, but at the same time, he was hurt and the team was out of it.

The only reason this isn't a bigger deal (playing injured when the team was out of it) is because it's the Rangers.

If the Yankees/Mets were sending out Judge/Cespedes in August, being 10 games out of the wild card and they were injured, people would be asking for someone's head on a platter. Same thing with the Jets/Giants, possibly the Knicks.

As far as someone getting dragged for not being able put this together, I couldn't care less. If you're got a shit opinion or are trying to "catch" someone in a conspiracy for an opinion from a fan of a sports team, on a message board, you've got tons of other issues.

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[haveandare]

lol goofy but also pretty funny

 

[CasusBelli]

Ovechkin and Lundqvist were, until last night, the two players I most wanted to win a Cup. Now that the Great Eight has his ring, we need to find a way for the King to win his ring, even if it isn't with the Rangers; Hank simply deserves it. (I also want to see Karlsson win the Cup, but he still has many years ahead, and he doesn't have to win the Cup in his prime)