Player Discussion Henrik Lundqvist: Part II

[True Blue]

Honestly, if it was about winning games NOW, then Quinn shouldnt be coach. Quinn has wasted a Hart season out of Artemi, and clicked a year off Zibenejads prime.

Which coach was going to take the 1) youngest team in the league with 2) this roster and turn it into a playoff contender?

 

[Fataldogg]

Which coach was going to take the 1) youngest team in the league with 2) this roster and turn it into a playoff contender?

The team has been on the bubble for most of the year, despite having some of the worst defensive metrics in the NHL.

And when they trade Kreider, they're officially "giving up" on the season, for the third straight year.

That's why I dont buy the "they want to win games now" statement. And yes, 100%, with a better coach I think they could be closer to a playoff spot or have a wild card spot.

 

[True Blue]

The team has been on the bubble for most of the year, despite having some of the worst defensive metrics in the NHL.

And yet again, so easy to simply ignore what has been going on for a few months. Tell me, is it very, very easy to put blinder on and ignore reality?

And when they trade Kreider, they're officially "giving up" on the season, for the third straight year.

2.25 years. And what did you believe rebuilding teams do?

That's why I dont buy the "they want to win games now" statement. And yes, 100%, with a better coach I think they could be closer to a playoff spot or have a wild card spot

Ok, I will bite. Please go ahead and list out the coaches that would have had this team in a playoff spot. Oh wait, that much closer in a playoff spot. And by all means tell me why.

 

[haohmaru]

2.25 years. And what did you believe rebuilding teams do?

Third season - starting with the Stepan trade and the 2017-18 deadline.

2017-18
2018-19
2019-20

Three years of selling.

And, I think we should trade Kreider, so I'm not of the opinion that that's a bad thing.

 

[True Blue]

Third season - starting with the Stepan trade and the 2017-18 deadline.

2017-18
2018-19
2019-20

Three years of selling.

And, I think we should trade Kreider, so I'm not of the opinion that that's a bad thing.

They did not start 2017 in rebuilding mode. That season started and was majority played by "another kick in the can" mentality. So yes, they became sellers but that was after the majority of the season had went by.

 

[haohmaru]

They did not start 2017 in rebuilding mode. That season started and was majority played by "another kick in the can" mentality. So yes, they became sellers but that was after the majority of the season had went by.

You can have that opinion, if you'd like, but trading their #1 center for a pick and a prospect was the beginning of the retool/rebuild or whatever you want to call at a position they were already thin on.

Even if you don't hold that opinion, trading major pieces at the trade deadline three years in a row is exactly that - 3 years of folding the cards and putting in another ante in October - which is exactly what the poster said that you're refuting. It's been three hockey years, seasons, of cashing in at the deadline and playing for next year and, if they move Kreider, it will continue to be that.

 

[True Blue]

You can have that opinion, if you'd like, but trading their #1 center for a pick and a prospect was the beginning of the retool/rebuild or whatever you want to call at a position they were already thin on.

Even if you don't hold that opinion, trading major pieces at the trade deadline three years in a row is exactly that - 3 years of folding the cards and putting in another ante in October - which is exactly what the poster said that you're refuting. It's been three hockey years, seasons, of cashing in at the deadline and playing for next year and, if they move Kreider, it will continue to be that.

From the deadline trough the end of this year has been 2.25 years. 3 trading deadlines. 2 rebuilding training camps. Just a matter how you see things

 

[haohmaru]

From the deadline trough the end of this year has been 2.25 years. 3 trading deadlines. 2 rebuilding training camps. Just a matter how you see things

How can three deadlines count as two years? That's absurd. They've been selling for three seasons, three consecutive trade deadlines, three consecutive years. To call that 2.25 "years" is just deceptive. He specifically said they're giving up for the third straight year and, if they're trading Kreider, he's not wrong.

He wasn't making an argument about when the rebuild started, what Gorton said when, or whether the summer of 2017 was the "start" or the letter was the "start" or whatever. All he was talking about is folding the tent at the trade deadline.

 

[Fataldogg]

And yet again, so easy to simply ignore what has been going on for a few months. Tell me, is it very, very easy to put blinder on and ignore reality?

2.25 years. And what did you believe rebuilding teams do?

Ok, I will bite. Please go ahead and list out the coaches that would have had this team in a playoff spot. Oh wait, that much closer in a playoff spot. And by all means tell me why.

I'm honestly shocked we have Quinn advocates on here. I could accept statements like "he has improved" but let's agree to disagree on his performance as a coach as we will never see eye to eye on this.

I can point out the countless defensive metrics that the Rangers were 29th-31st in for the majority of the season to criticize his role as coach, and if he was able to shore up the defense even within the first three months of the season, they could be in a playoff spot, but that would take time and you could easily look it up yourself. He didnt do a good job here in my opinion. I respect your opinion, everyone is entitled to have one, but it's just a case where we disagree.

Dont let Panarin and Zibenejad trick you into thinking Quinn is the best option for this team moving forward.

No one would be defending Quinn if Gorton didnt sign Panarin in the off season. The Rangers would be bottom-5 in the NHL and be contending for another lottery pick.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

He was asked to waive his NMC, and refused.

Where’s your source on this?

I don’t even remember them having a trade in place and him not waiving his NMC.

I remember it being reported that they asked him what he wanted to do. Whether he would like them to pursue a move or not. He did not.

That’s not refusing the waive your NMC.

 

[aemoreira1981]

What are the odds that the Rangers buy out the final year of Henrik's contract in the offseason? Remember that Tony DeAngelo will need a new contract and is potentially an offer-sheet candidate, as a right defenseman who could hit 60 points this year.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Where’s your source on this?

I don’t even remember them having a trade in place and him not waiving his NMC.

I remember it being reported that they asked him what he wanted to do. Whether he would like them to pursue a move or not. He did not.

That’s not refusing the waive your NMC.

It was about a year ago. It was reported in, I think, the NY Post

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

It was about a year ago. It was reported in, I think, the NY Post

It was definitely mentioned that Gorton approached Hank to ask what he wanted to do when the rebuild first went out after the letter. Not with a trade in place but to ask if he wanted out.

That's not refusing to waive his NMC. There's a difference.

 

[True Blue]

How can three deadlines count as two years? That's absurd. They've been selling for three seasons, three consecutive trade deadlines, three consecutive years. To call that 2.25 "years" is just deceptive. He specifically said they're giving up for the third straight year and, if they're trading Kreider, he's not wrong.

He wasn't making an argument about when the rebuild started, what Gorton said when, or whether the summer of 2017 was the "start" or the letter was the "start" or whatever. All he was talking about is folding the tent at the trade deadline.

They did not start out 3 years ago as sellers. They went into that year intending to be true playoff contenders. You know that perfectly well. In the second half of the year, reality set in and "the letter" went out. Ergo, it has been TDLs of being sellers, but not 3 years at the beginning of which you knew that you were not going to be competitive. That has been two years and two training camps. They didn't start 2017 with the idea of giving up. That is the only point. Silly semantics

 

[True Blue]

I'm honestly shocked we have Quinn advocates on here. I could accept statements like "he has improved" but let's agree to disagree on his performance as a coach as we will never see eye to eye on this.c
I am shocked you have not made an appearance in the Quinn thread. I suggest you visit and view the polling numbers.

Here is some more distaste for you. At worst, Quinn has THIS team either performing to expectations or exceeding them.

I can point out the countless defensive metrics that the Rangers were 29th-31st in for the majority of the season to criticize his role as coach, and if he was able to shore up the defense even within the first three months of the season, they could be in a playoff spot, but that would take time and you could easily look it up yourself. He didnt do a good job here in my opinion. I respect your opinion, everyone is entitled to have one, but it's just a case where we disagree.

Honestly, I respect your view and let's agree to disagree. I do however suggest that you read both the old and new Quinn threads to see the viewpoints. And we can pick up the discussion there if you wish. That is the proper place for it.

No one would be defending Quinn if Gorton didnt sign Panarin in the off season. The Rangers would be bottom-5 in the NHL and be contending for another lottery pick.No one would be defending Quinn if Gorton didnt sign Panarin in the off season. The Rangers would be bottom-5 in the NHL and be contending for another lottery pick.

Again, please visit the Quinn thread. Many people's expectations were that with BOTH Panarin & Trouba, this was a lottery team.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Hank hoping Georgiev is traded so at least he has the gameplan of sitting while dressed on the bench next season.

Otherwise, he doesn't have a plan.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

How is he going to prove he's better than either of them when he gets to play 4 games a month? Lundqvist has always been a workhorse goalie. The more he plays, the better he plays.

I think it's weird Lundqvist refuses to remove his NMC, but apparently he's fine with earning $8.5m not playing hockey. It's extremely obvious NYR has thrown Lundqvist out at this point, but not contract wise, because they can't.

That this is how Lundqvist's career ends in New York was very expected. The classic star veteran treatment.

Well, we can this offseason. He's an easy buy-out. The buy-out terms are very advantageous for us. Not buying him out would be insane.

Would basically be malpractice to not buy him out.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Well, we can this offseason. He's an easy buy-out. The buy-out terms are very advantageous for us. Not buying him out would be insane.

Would basically be malpractice to not buy him out.

Well, probably, if he can't be traded. You can't have a player paid @ $8.5m not playing. The only thing that is more ridiculous than anything in that situation would be, Lundqvist is bought out while Marc Staal remains on the team. I mean holy smokes.

If Lundqvist doesn't waive his NMC, he's crazy. Or, is fine with quitting hockey at this point if he has lost his drive.

Why does he have to be so goddamn loyal? This is just sad. He still has some quality hockey left in him and NYR has made it abundandtly clear they want to go with the next generation of goalies.

The most surprising part is both Shestyerkin and Georgiev are such solid goaltenders, it's not the norm that both pan out to be as good as they are right now. I think neither NYR nor Lundqvist expected this either.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Well, probably, if he can't be traded. You can't have a player paid @ $8.5m not playing. The only thing that is more ridiculous than anything in that situation would be, Lundqvist is bought out while Marc Staal remains on the team. I mean holy smokes.

If Lundqvist doesn't waive his NMC, he's crazy. Or, is fine with quitting hockey at this point if he has lost his drive.

Why does he have to be so goddamn loyal? This is just sad.

Both are done after this year and both should be bought out. We'd save quit a bit by buying both out.

Neither should be on the team next year. Period. This rebuilding team shouldn't be in the business of allowing players to dictate retirement when the buy-out option is infinitely better with next year's cap issues.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Both are done after this year and both should be bought out. We'd save quit a bit by buying both out.

Neither should be on the team next year. Period. This rebuilding team shouldn't be in the business of allowing players to dictate retirement when the buy-out option is infinitely better with next year's cap issues.

Sure, but Staal is cooked. Lundqvist can still be a strong netminder on a good team. I really hope NYR can trade Lundqvist at 50% salary retention. Ideally Colorado.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Sure, but Staal is cooked. Lundqvist can still be a strong netminder on a good team. I really hope NYR can trade Lundqvist at 50% salary retention. Ideally Colorado.

Send Hank smoke signals. I want the cap space.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Send Hank smoke signals. I want the cap space.

That's just utterly cruel. You want to leave Hank to rot for the rest of the season, essentially killing his career, just because the team will stretch out the cap hit, which would be more money than the actual trade? For everything Lundqvist has done for this team, you would rather shoot him in the back of the head and leave him in a ditch?

If a trade opportunity arises with 50% salary retainment, you would rather kill the deal and get a buyout, than actually giving Lundqvist a chance to win the cup this spring?

Not that I'm surprised this kind of psycho business mindset exists in New York, it's just unimaginable to me to have this approach. "Thank you for 1.5 decades of HHOF goaltending, now go away to rot." Which would probably make Lundqvist left out of the HHOF for a very long time, if ever.

I do agree Lundqvist and NYR should part though. I have no idea why he stayed, if I were him, I would've left ASAP. I would've taken a pay cut and played on an actually good team.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

That's just utterly cruel. You want to leave Hank to rot for the rest of the season, essentially killing his career, just because the team will stretch out the cap hit, which would be more money than the actual trade? For everything Lundqvist has done for this team, you would rather shoot him in the back of the head and leave him in a ditch?

If a trade opportunity arises with 50% salary retainment, you would rather kill the deal and get a buyout, than actually giving Lundqvist a chance to win the cup this spring?

Not that I'm surprised this kind of psycho business mindset exists in New York, it's just unimaginable to me to have this approach.

Re-read and try again. Literally no clue where you got . . . any of this from. Could theoretically be a language barrier, I guess.

If not, this is the strangest post I've ever seen on HFNYR.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I think there's way to much speculation on what Gorton asked Hank and what his response was. I think the reality is, they got caught by surprise. Didn't think Georgiev and especially Shesterkin would explode onto the scene like they have. Wouldn't shock me if Shesterkin threatened to go back to Russia if he didn't get called up (which I think was in his contract). No one wants to be dealing with this three goalie situation but they're nuts if they don't play Shesterkin like a true #1 the rest of the way. He's hot. Team is hot. 6 points out with two of the teams ahead of them in a tailspin.

Sucks for Hank, he was the man for a long time here. Guy dragged bad teams deep into the playoffs and then stood on his head once they got there. I hope they give him the greatest send off in Ranger's history because he deserves it. But I don't think having him and Igor here is a tenable situation.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Re-read and try again. Literally no clue where you got . . . any of this from. Could theoretically be a language barrier, I guess.

If not, this is the strangest post I've ever seen on HFNYR.

Oh? That's not what you meant? Ok, I apologize. Yes, it's a language barrier thing. Well, let's just assume you had a fictional role then.

It was a misunderstanding. I thought you meant buyout much rather than a 50% salary trade.