Player Discussion Henrik Lundqvist: Part II

[eco's bones]

Agree with all of this until you get to the part about hanging on to Georgiev. There appears to be a market and he is at a high value point. Move him and sign a vet to a 2-year, ~$1MM AAV deal, then expose that vet to the Kraken. Meanwhile, let Wall and Huska percolate in the minors.

If we move Alex the goalie we replace him with is going to have to be a good one. Ideally you'd want that goalie to play 30 games or so and be a +5 in wins. If he's even that's not really good and if he's underwater that's a disaster and we're probably not going to the playoffs. Some people I know are worried that Alex's salary is going up--the goalie we replace him with might make as much or maybe even a little more.

Then it's what we get back in a deal by moving Alex. I'd be inclined more to plug a hole with a young NHL'er than a 2nd round pick. Alex might bring back a later 2nd rounder and a young hole plugger though. That would be acceptable. And by hole plugger I don't mean someone like Julien Gauthier who I'm not convinced is going to be anything special. Gauthier can score goals at the AHL level and he has size and can skate but he's really going to have to prove himself in our top nine to make it with us--he's not good enough away from the puck to be put in a checking role.

 

[eco's bones]

Which is more important--a goodbye tour or making the playoffs next year? because one might get in the way of the other. Tailoring his season around getting starts at MSG?--I don't see it. WTF--you don't tailor your season around your backup goalie. Besides a good part of next year if not all of it is going to be played out of a bubble (most likely in Canada) and players are going to be away from family, friends, other outside interests however long that goes on. As well Henrik tarnishes his reputation if he's seen as the guy that hangs on and is a main reason why the team fails to make the playoffs next year.

 

[haohmaru]

I'm not even advocating a "goodbye tour" - I just think you get more for the club by moving Georgiev instead of buying out Lundqvist and signing Georgiev and no dead cap the following season where the cap will be dangerously stagnant, apparently, for years. We're not winning next year anyway and we're not going to miss the playoffs because Lundqvist is the backup. If there's a decent offer for AG, I take it and run.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Endorsing what? The numbers are what the numbers are. Of course, the context is being distorted to suit your narrative as you're conveniently forgetting that the Rangers played their best game of the series in the 3rd game. It really doesn't matter. You're not going to win a whole lot of playoff series scoring 4 goals in three games.

And you're actually comparing Eli's 4th quarter stats to playoff games? Okay. Not sure what that has to do with ANYTHING at all, but okay.

And, just to be clear, he might not go anywhere and his career just might be over. He's not getting traded with the cap the way it is and his cap hit being what it is. The only way he stays in the NHL, IMHO, is as the Rangers back up. Not sure that's in the Rangers plans.

Hank giving up two softies to put the young Rangers down 0-1 is not a narrative. Eli is the analogy as both he and Hank were/are done with only a contract keeping him up.

When a veteran starts preaching how they needed to work on their mental game the writing is on the wall. He knows he isn’t making the saves. He can’t figure out why he can’t make saves he used to make. He believes it’s mental, maybe physical too. It’s not, it’s called age. A soft goal and the miserable body language is terrible for a young team. Not to mention his horrendous puck handling. Hank is a liability which is no different than Eli Manning was to the Giants.


You preach, “the numbers are what they are”. Ok, let’s look at them

- Shes 2.51 goals against with a .932 save percentage 10 wins 2 losses
- Geor 3.04 goals against average with a .910 save percentage 17 wins 14 losses
- Hank 3.10 goals against average with a .905 save percentage10 wins 12 losses

Playoff
- Shes 3.10 goals against average with a .900 save percentage 0-1
- Hank 3.52 goals against average with a .901 save percentage 0-2

Hank’s Goals Against Average is the worst, he can’t handle the puck and the Rangers don’t win as often with him in net.

Want to look back the previous year when the Rangers played some defense?

- Hank 2.74 goals against average with a .910 save percentage 31 wins and 20 losses
- Ranta 2.26 goals against average with a .922 save percentage 16 wins and 8 losses

No narrative necessary. Hank’s stats are worse than the other goalies, he can’t play the puck and doesn’t win as often.

He’s done

 

[Kovalev27]

I actually think Hank would prefer 20-25 more starts with the Rangers (mostly at the Garden in front of fans), than to fight for (and potentially lose) the starting job in another city he has no emotional attachment to. Is he going to lift his kids out of school for a year or live in a hotel away from them? He saw how it ended for Brodeur. No fanfare or closure. I could easily see him coming back for a goodbye tour.

except that is not an option. The team does not want him back next year. That’s where things are at. That’s why he has to make a choice. You will not see him in a Rangers Jersey again.

 

[CaptTennille]

Matt Dumba most likely wins (as he should IMO) but a nice nod nonetheless.

 

[Kovalev27]

I find it intriguing that we haven’t seen a message from Hank since the season ended. Something he usually does.

going to be very interesting here as the SHL preseason. Has begun. NHL season won’t start till Dec/Jan Hank will be 39 in March. Wait? Or go play? The longer he sits the harder it will be to get back.

 

[haohmaru]

Hank giving up two softies to put the young Rangers down 0-1 is not a narrative. Eli is the analogy as both he and Hank were/are done with only a contract keeping him up.

It's a narrative when you don't provide context. 3 spot starts in the final two months of the season. Then, 5 months without game. Then, named the backup. Then, the surprise starter because the other guy got injured playing in front of team that probably has the least playoff experience of any team in the league. Were the goals "soft"? No. Were they stoppable? Yes. Would he like to have them back? Yes. We'll agree to disagree on the term "softies". And, remember, we're arguing whether or not Lundqvist would be a capable BACK UP, not a starter. I understand your opinion and disagree with it.

When a veteran starts preaching how they needed to work on their mental game the writing is on the wall. He knows he isn’t making the saves. He can’t figure out why he can’t make saves he used to make. He believes it’s mental, maybe physical too. It’s not, it’s called age. A soft goal and the miserable body language is terrible for a young team. Not to mention his horrendous puck handling. Hank is a liability which is no different than Eli Manning was to the Giants.

Was he wrong? The Rangers were outplayed every period in the series with the probably exception of period 2 game 3 (where he wasn't the starter). It's called they sucked.

You preach, “the numbers are what they are”. Ok, let’s look at them

Playoff
- Shes 3.10 goals against average with a .900 save percentage 0-1
- Hank 3.52 goals against average with a .901 save percentage 0-2

These numbers are so similar that it's comical that one guy is "done" and the other is the starter for the next 10 years.

Shesterkin has played 13 NHL games and given up 3 or more goals in half of them. Let's take a step back before anointing him the next guy to win 450 NHL games for the Rangers.

Georgiev's stats are similar to Lundqvist's. It's part of the reason he wasn't even on the bench in the playoffs.

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to disagree with it. Henrik would be a perfectly fine #2 next year on the Rangers.

 

[NYSPORTS]

It's a narrative when you don't provide context. 3 spot starts in the final two months of the season. Then, 5 months without game. Then, named the backup. Then, the surprise starter because the other guy got injured playing in front of team that probably has the least playoff experience of any team in the league. Were the goals "soft"? No. Were they stoppable? Yes. Would he like to have them back? Yes. We'll agree to disagree on the term "softies". And, remember, we're arguing whether or not Lundqvist would be a capable BACK UP, not a starter. I understand your opinion and disagree with it.



Was he wrong? The Rangers were outplayed every period in the series with the probably exception of period 2 game 3 (where he wasn't the starter). It's called they sucked.




These numbers are so similar that it's comical that one guy is "done" and the other is the starter for the next 10 years.

Shesterkin has played 13 NHL games and given up 3 or more goals in half of them. Let's take a step back before anointing him the next guy to win 450 NHL games for the Rangers.

Georgiev's stats are similar to Lundqvist's. It's part of the reason he wasn't even on the bench in the playoffs.

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to disagree with it. Henrik would be a perfectly fine #2 next year on the Rangers.

How convenient, ignore the regular season to support a narrative. A narrative which now puts lipstick on soft goals by labeling them a stoppable. Com’on lol

Like Eli, Hank is done. Only a few wearing their hearts on their sleeve don’t see it.

Let’s hope for a short offseason to figure it out.

 

[Leetch3]

I find it intriguing that we haven’t seen a message from Hank since the season ended. Something he usually does.

going to be very interesting here as the SHL preseason. Has begun. NHL season won’t start till Dec/Jan Hank will be 39 in March. Wait? Or go play? The longer he sits the harder it will be to get back.

its been like a week. I hope you aren't offended that he wanted to see his daughters after being in the bubble before he tweeted to you thanks for supporting us this season lol

 

[haohmaru]

How convenient, ignore the regular season to support a narrative. A narrative which now puts lipstick on soft goals by labeling them a stoppable. Com’on lol

Like Eli, Hank is done. Only a few wearing their hearts on their sleeve don’t see it.

Let’s hope for a short offseason to figure it out.

So... soft goals are unstoppable? You don't even know what BS is coming out of your own mouth lol.

The regular season was an aberration - I've never seen a three goalie starting rotation in my lifetime and clearly starting 3 games in 2 months isn't exactly in Lunqvist's wheelhouse. You can place as much of an emphasis as you want on that but I don't see it the way you do. The team was CLEARLY playing differently and better defensively after the New Year - I'm certain Lundqvist's #'s would've benefitted from that but probably not to the extent that he'd match Shesterkin's numbers.

He's certainly good enough to be a backup.

Anyway, this has been beat to death and we're clearly not going to agree so I'll move along.

 

[Kovalev27]

its been like a week. I hope you aren't offended that he wanted to see his daughters after being in the bubble before he tweeted to you thanks for supporting us this season lol

actually you know me and you know that I am offended.

 

[eco's bones]

Henrik started last season as our No. 1. In the first half he got most of the starts. The Rangers were 37-28-5 last year and were on the outside looking in when the season was called. Henrik was 10-12-3. So the Rangers were +9 on games and still on the outside and Henrik at that point a -2 had been beaten out first by Alex as our starter and next by Igor. Igor and Alex had net positive win-loss records. Between the two of them they were 27-16-2. Winning matters.

He's certainly good enough to be a backup reads to me that he's good enough not to embarrass himself when he plays (at least most nights) but not good enough to win more games than he loses. The guy is 39--maybe he realizes---maybe he doesn't but he's on a real decline. This shit happens sooner or later to every player--it happened to Messier and it happened to Leetch. People don't like to give up on their heroes--it's like they want to believe that they've always got another rabbit they can pull out of the hat. Lundqvist has run out of rabbits. It's up to the Rangers to put their best possible team on the ice---not to have farewell tours for aging heroes. Losing records by backup goalies these days are the kiss of death for playoff hopes. If you're figuring on a 95 point season just to squeak in that means your team is going to have to be a +13 on wins. Backup goalies who are minus make it so much harder for the starter to get the team to where it needs to go.

 

[Chytilmania]

What happens if he retires during the season? I want him to suit up one more time in front of a crowd, he deserves it.

 

[lemonybergamot]

I find it intriguing that we haven’t seen a message from Hank since the season ended. Something he usually does.

going to be very interesting here as the SHL preseason. Has begun. NHL season won’t start till Dec/Jan Hank will be 39 in March. Wait? Or go play? The longer he sits the harder it will be to get back.

Perhaps the next message from him will be a retirement goodbye......

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

What happens if he retires during the season? I want him to suit up one more time in front of a crowd, he deserves it.

Being sentimental in sports is a bad move. The right thing to do is allocate that cap space and have the best team. His one more moment will be when #30 goes to the rafters after covid.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Something I've been wondering...

Does Hank even WANT to play next season?

On the one hand, leaving 8.5M on the table is insane even if you are already wealthy.

On the other hand, does he want to be in a hotel room in a bubble city somewhere only seeing his family during the bye week, All Star break and Christmas so he can backup Igor on a team that has only the slightest chance of making some noise in the playoffs?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Something I've been wondering...

Does Hank even WANT to play next season?

On the one hand, leaving 8.5M on the table is insane even if you are already wealthy.

On the other hand, does he want to be in a hotel room in a bubble city somewhere only seeing his family during the bye week, All Star break and Christmas so he can backup Igor on a team that has only the slightest chance of making some noise in the playoffs?

I doubt that they do the bubble thing again. It's one thing to do it for a few months, its a whole different ball game when you're talking about doing it for an entire season.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Something I've been wondering...

Does Hank even WANT to play next season?

On the one hand, leaving 8.5M on the table is insane even if you are already wealthy.

On the other hand, does he want to be in a hotel room in a bubble city somewhere only seeing his family during the bye week, All Star break and Christmas so he can backup Igor on a team that has only the slightest chance of making some noise in the playoffs?

Are we really going to see bubble cities next year? I can't imagine it working logistically in the regular season, just too many games. You'd get 15 games on Saturdays during a regular season.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Are we really going to see bubble cities next year? I can't imagine it working logistically in the regular season, just too many games. You'd get 15 games on Saturdays during a regular season.

I honestly don't know. But it seems that outside of a few states in the northeast (only 2 of which have professional hockey teams), the rest of the US is not in good shape regarding the pandemic.

Teams in states that have made little progress (measured by # of cases, testing and hospital capacity)

Anaheim
LA
San Jose
Minnesota
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
Carolina
Dallas
Colorado
Arizona

That's 1/3 of the entire league

Of those teams, those in states that haven't seen a sustained 2 week drop in cases are:

Anaheim
LA
San Jose
Minnesota
Carolina
Colorado

Still 1/5th of the entire league

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I honestly don't know. But it seems that outside of a few states in the northeast (only 2 of which have professional hockey teams), the rest of the US is not in good shape regarding the pandemic.

Teams in states that have made little progress (measured by # of cases, testing and hospital capacity)

Anaheim
LA
San Jose
Minnesota
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
Carolina
Dallas
Colorado
Arizona

That's 1/3 of the entire league

Of those teams, those in states that haven't seen a sustained 2 week drop in cases are:

Anaheim
LA
San Jose
Minnesota
Carolina
Colorado

Still 1/5th of the entire league

Maybe if we have more bubble cities?

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Maybe if we have more bubble cities?

IF they go that route, I would think they'd have to have at least 6-8 bubble cities.

 

[Profet]

IF they go that route, I would think they'd have to have at least 6-8 bubble cities.

Or just pick 2 bubble cities with multiple arenas.

Staples Center/Honda Center

and

Prudential Center/MSG/Nassau Colosseum/Barclays

Depending on the broadcasting setup, AHL arenas may also be feasible.

 

[bleedblue94]

Players aren't going to want to be in bubbles for 11 of 12 months. These are human beings with families. Better enjoy the hockey now bc the league will be praying for a vaccine to be coming out around the time 20 21 season starts.

 

[Desdichado93]

Players aren't going to want to be in bubbles for 11 of 12 months. These are human beings with families. Better enjoy the hockey now bc the league will be praying for a vaccine to be coming out around the time 20 21 season starts.

A vaccine is probably still 5-6 months away so I don't think it will be a available for season start.