Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[voyageur]

I encourage everyone to look at the avs roster last year and tell me where all these big body players are... they were same size or smaller than the jets.

The difference in that series was the forecheck and that their top line was hungrier than ours.

The difference was the way the Avs skated through the Jets forwards to me. Monahan and Toffoli could not skate with that defense. Iafallo and Gustafsson couldn't skate with that defense. Nino was injured and couldn't skate with that defense. Lowry had trouble skating with that defense. Scheifele struggled to skate against that defense.

But the Jets this year aren't the Jets last year. They are a better skating team, without Monahan, Toffoli, Dillon and Schmidt. Dillon had a good playoff, paired with Pionk. Pionk struggled at the end of it, especially game 5 and on the PK. The same one Monahan was out on. One thing that is evidently different is the way Arniel wants pucks in deep, and to apply pressure on opposing defenses.

But then you have to ask can De Melo play top pairing successfully in a playoff series? He and Morrissey have only had one good playoff series, and that's the Edmonton one in 2021. They do get worn down physically by the stronger net drives that you see in the playoffs.

But I love these boards. Heinola should be better than Pionk, because of? I'm guessing it's the new car smell.

 

[Jets 31]

The difference was the way the Avs skated through the Jets forwards to me. Monahan and Toffoli could not skate with that defense. Iafallo and Gustafsson couldn't skate with that defense. Nino was injured and couldn't skate with that defense. Lowry had trouble skating with that defense. Scheifele struggled to skate against that defense.

But the Jets this year aren't the Jets last year. They are a better skating team, without Monahan, Toffoli, Dillon and Schmidt. Dillon had a good playoff, paired with Pionk. Pionk struggled at the end of it, especially game 5 and on the PK. The same one Monahan was out on. One thing that is evidently different is the way Arniel wants pucks in deep, and to apply pressure on opposing defenses.

But then you have to ask can De Melo play top pairing successfully in a playoff series? He and Morrissey have only had one good playoff series, and that's the Edmonton one in 2021. They do get worn down physically by the stronger net drives that you see in the playoffs.

But I love these boards. Heinola should be better than Pionk, because of? I'm guessing it's the new car smell.

I honestly would just like Heinola to be a upgrade on Stanley ,for now anyway.

 

[BoneDocUK]

I honestly would just like Heinola to be a upgrade on Stanley ,for now anyway.

Agree. That would be a great start, with Salmo, who brings some size and bite along with his exceptional mobility, waiting in the wings.

 

[10Ducky10]

The Avs beat us because our golatending was sub-par and we couldn't score.

Our goals scored in the 4 losses were 2 2 1 3...we couldn't score enough. Not going to win many games scoring 2 goals.

I wouldn't be worried at all if we had to play them in the playoffs again. You've got to beat good teams to win the cup. What would it do for their confidence if they met the Avs in the first round and knocked them out?
The way we are playing right now, bring 'em on...

 

[10Ducky10]

As far as Heinola goes, I see him getting into quite a few games but I think they bring him along similarly to Sammy. You get more games when you earn/deserve them.
Maybe 40-45 games this season and a full role, if deserved, next season.

 

[voyageur]

The Avs beat us because our golatending was sub-par and we couldn't score.

Our goals scored in the 4 losses were 2 2 1 3...we couldn't score enough. Not going to win many games scoring 2 goals.

I wouldn't be worried at all if we had to play them in the playoffs again. You've got to beat good teams to win the cup. What would it do for their confidence if they met the Avs in the first round and knocked them out?
The way we are playing right now, bring 'em on...

I'd still be scared of the Avs in the playoffs. With hardly anyone on their roster we saw Mackinnon push the Jets hard in the regular season at home. Start bringing back some of those injured players and that's a tougher team. If they make moves at the deadline could be a real tough team. I'm hoping for Calgary or Edmonton. Or Vancouver because still haven't avenged the 90s Canucks teams that did us dirty.

 

[10Ducky10]

I'd still be scared of the Avs in the playoffs. With hardly anyone on their roster we saw Mackinnon push the Jets hard in the regular season at home. Start bringing back some of those injured players and that's a tougher team. If they make moves at the deadline could be a real tough team. I'm hoping for Calgary or Edmonton. Or Vancouver because still haven't avenged the 90s Canucks teams that did us dirty.

It'd be nice to finish first in the division. The only thing is, we might face the Avs if we finish first.
I say we concentrate on playing right and being healthy when we enter the playoffs. Far more important, in my opinion, than whether we finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd.

 

[DRW204]

The jets were undefeated against the Avs including a 7 zip ass whoop a few days prior to the PO's. The roster was essentially the exact same as that game which had Monahan, Toffoli etc. The team forgot to skate and Hellebuyck was trash that series.

 

[Crocket]

No he isn't - you might like him to be but until he has shown anyone that he can play NHL minutes, he's below both these guys.
I have to laugh at how we as fans think we determine where a player sits on the depth chart - especially one that isn't even playing

That's what Arniel said.

 

[Crocket]

-
This is a pretty accurate read. My best guess is the organization still believes in their draft pick but he hasn’t earned anything yet. Arniel seems very open to giving him a good look which is great. But it won’t be an automatic roster spot.

Stan was the extra last year, he only played because Ville was injured. Heinola is ahead of Stan and Fluery if his recovery is good and he gets up to speed.
That said. He's missed a ton of time. They will give him the opportunity.

 

[KingBogo]

That's what Arniel said.

When did Arniel share his defense depth chart?

 

[ps241]

Yup - a high percentage of Avs goals in that series were just driving their big bodies to the net and then screening, tipping and tapping in rebounds.

The Jets couldn't break their cycle, nor could they give Helle eyes.

Yes, mobile defensemen who can make a quick play to evade or advance the puck can help in that scenario, but big D that can snuff out big forwards in a cycle and clear the front of the net is what we really needed. I think you need a mix of both to be successful.

I look at the problem as just check the “all the above” option.

I very much agree with your post and would like to add a few things.

The problem is that they also killed us by dumping it in and pressuring us because our D weren’t quick enough to get back to transition the puck. They also drove us off the blue line with their speed and forced us to back up and not gap up.

Our forwards were just as much of a problem. Way to slow on the forecheck letting the Avs break out too easy, then not nearly good enough in the neutral zone allowing the Avs to gain too much speed. That is a fatal combination that sets up any D group for failure. Our forwards didn’t slow or disrupt the attack. Our forwards also sucked at getting in the lanes to stifle the point shots. Time and time again the Avs D beat them, they also allowed the high screens creating layers.

Our D had neither the size nor the speed necessary. They were also not supported nearly well enough by the forwards. Where did our structure go? Lastly Helle didn't stand on his head.

It was a humiliating series.

Other than that we had them where we wanted them.

The good news is that was then this is now.

 

[Jet]

I look at the problem as just check the “all the above” option.

I very much agree with your post and would like to add a few things.

The problem is that they also killed us by dumping it in and pressuring us because our D weren’t quick enough to get back to transition the puck. They also drove us off the blue line with their speed and forced us to back up and not gap up.

Our forwards were just as much of a problem. Way to slow on the forecheck letting the Avs break out too easy, then not nearly good enough in the neutral zone allowing the Avs to gain too much speed. That is a fatal combination that sets up any D group for failure. Our forwards didn’t slow or disrupt the attack. Our forwards also sucked at getting in the lanes to stifle the point shots. Time and time again the Avs D beat them, they also allowed the high screens creating layers.

Our D had neither the size nor the speed necessary. They were also not supported nearly well enough by the forwards. Where did our structure go? Lastly Helle didn't stand on his head.

It was a humiliating series.

Other than that we had them where we wanted them.

The good news is that was then this is now.

All great points. I don't think the D felt confident enough to have a tight gap at the blue line, so they were giving it up quite easily, trying to cheat to retrieve dumps. They didn't get the back pressure support of the forwards.

That gave the avs a myriad of attack options.

I think it was a failure of practically every player on the team.

 

[TS Quint]

I encourage everyone to look at the avs roster last year and tell me where all these big body players are... they were same size or smaller than the jets.

The difference in that series was the forecheck and that their top line was hungrier than ours.

Nuke and Rantenen scored 40% of their goals.

Where did Lehkenen go against the Stars bigger defenders? He was on his ass, not scoring on rebounds.

 

[Crocket]

The Avs beat us because our golatending was sub-par and we couldn't score.

Our goals scored in the 4 losses were 2 2 1 3...we couldn't score enough. Not going to win many games scoring 2 goals.

I wouldn't be worried at all if we had to play them in the playoffs again. You've got to beat good teams to win the cup. What would it do for their confidence if they met the Avs in the first round and knocked them out?
The way we are playing right now, bring 'em on...

Also penalties. We lost 2 leads in the 3rd with undisciplined penalties by Stanley mostly. The Avs pp killed us

When did Arniel share his defense depth chart?

He said he is aiming for him to play against the Wild. As far as depth. Heinola made the opening roster last year, Stan didn't. But this is a different season. They obviously would want an upgrade over Stan and are hopeful Ville can. Time will tell

 

[ps241]

All great points. I don't think the D felt confident enough to have a tight gap at the blue line, so they were giving it up quite easily, trying to cheat to retrieve dumps. They didn't get the back pressure support of the forwards.

That gave the avs a myriad of attack options.

I think it was a failure of practically every player on the team.

I was at the first game that we won and I was surprised by how overwhelmed our team looked from the puck drop. Thank god their goalie totally sieved that night. Avs were flying and we got away from our game of stifling team defense early and started trying to play their game. Maybe it was because the Avs forced it by coming out like a house on fire and never letting up.

I'm not really sure what to take from that entire thing. People were looking for scapegoat's but I don't think it was a few individuals it really was that we got away from our game, got outcoached, and their players collectively badly outplayed our players.

Our team looked shell shocked.

Once they studied it and learned from it I think Arny would be wise to burn the video.

 

[LowLefty]

Also penalties. We lost 2 leads in the 3rd with undisciplined penalties by Stanley mostly. The Avs pp killed us


He said he is aiming for him to play against the Wild. As far as depth. Heinola made the opening roster last year, Stan didn't. But this is a different season. They obviously would want an upgrade over Stan and are hopeful Ville can. Time will tell

Making the roster means you are part of the 22/23 players on the roster - it doesn't mean you play every game. They carried two Dmen in the PB LY (as part of the roster) and rotated them through out the yr. Stan was on the roster and likely would have been regardless of Ville's status -
Ville might replace Stan one day but that is yet to be proven - Ville still needs to show Arniel that he can play effective reg season minutes.
And just because he is scheduled to play against Minnie doesn't mean he has replaced anyone.

 

[Jets 31]

Making the roster means you are part of the 22/23 players on the roster - it doesn't mean you play every game. They carried two Dmen in the PB LY (as part of the roster) and rotated them through out the yr. Stan was on the roster and likely would have been regardless of Ville's status -
Ville might replace Stan one day but that is yet to be proven - Ville still needs to show Arniel that he can play effective reg season minutes.
And just because he is scheduled to play against Minnie doesn't mean he has replaced anyone.

I agree, Heinola hasn't proved anything yet but this defense with Stanley as a regular isn't good enough , at least to me anyway. Stanley has had alot of opportunity to make this defense as a regular and i just don't think he is good enough. He gets beat wide alot because he's not a good enough skater and if the puck gets in close to him he seems to have a tough time handling the puck. He has the size that would be great but he's not a good enough skater. That's what made Buff so good, great skater with size, man i miss Buff .

 

[Adam da bomb]

All great points. I don't think the D felt confident enough to have a tight gap at the blue line, so they were giving it up quite easily, trying to cheat to retrieve dumps. They didn't get the back pressure support of the forwards.

That gave the avs a myriad of attack options.

I think it was a failure of practically every player on the team.

Yep hard to count the jets who were actually good in that series. Lowry, Morrissey and Connor probably only ones.

Also penalties. We lost 2 leads in the 3rd with undisciplined penalties by Stanley mostly. The Avs pp killed us


He said he is aiming for him to play against the Wild. As far as depth. Heinola made the opening roster last year, Stan didn't. But this is a different season. They obviously would want an upgrade over Stan and are hopeful Ville can. Time will tell

The fans want a upgrade over Stan yet coaches seem to always have pesky different ideas.

 

[Jet]

Yep hard to count the jets who were actually good in that series. Lowry, Morrissey and Connor probably only ones.

The fans want a upgrade over Stan yet coaches seem to always have pesky different ideas.

Yeah it's easy to say it was Stans fault but if Stan was our only problem in that series then we would have won it.

I'd put good money on the notion that having either Miller or Ville in over Stanley wouldn't have made any difference.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Yeah it's easy to say it was Stans fault but if Stan was our only problem in that series then we would have won it.

I'd put good money on the notion that having either Miller or Ville in over Stanley wouldn't have made any difference.

I put Miller and Stan on the same tier. Are best players have to be our best players and a number of them just didn't show up.

 

[TS Quint]

Making the roster means you are part of the 22/23 players on the roster - it doesn't mean you play every game. They carried two Dmen in the PB LY (as part of the roster) and rotated them through out the yr. Stan was on the roster and likely would have been regardless of Ville's status -
Ville might replace Stan one day but that is yet to be proven - Ville still needs to show Arniel that he can play effective reg season minutes.
And just because he is scheduled to play against Minnie doesn't mean he has replaced anyone.

I think some people should temper their expectations because of this point. It’s hard to walk into the middle of a NHL season and keep up. Especially for a guy who never has.

I am in the Ville has A LOT to prove camp. I’m also not expecting much out of the first 20 or so games, so my judgement will be reserved to the end of the season. A good, bad or indifferent game here or there is going to be meaningless for a while.

 

[LowLefty]

I agree, Heinola hasn't proved anything yet but this defense with Stanley as a regular isn't good enough , at least to me anyway. Stanley has had alot of opportunity to make this defense as a regular and i just don't think he is good enough. He gets beat wide alot because he's not a good enough skater and if the puck gets in close to him he seems to have a tough time handling the puck. He has the size that would be great but he's not a good enough skater. That's what made Buff so good, great skater with size, man i miss Buff .

Ville is going to get his chance to prove to everyone he is better than what we have - what are you complaining about?
I don't agree with your assessment of Stan - he doesn't get beat wider any more than the other 3rd pair guys. And wait until Ville gets his shot - they won't have to go wide on him - they'll likely just go through him.

I'm sorry but I'll never understand fans taking shots at players when there is no need for it - Ville is getting his shot so why are we discussing Stan? We'll know soon enough - let it happen.

 

[Jet]

Ville is going to get his chance to prove to everyone he is better than what we have - what are you complaining about?
I don't agree with your assessment of Stan - he doesn't get beat wider any more than the other 3rd pair guys. And wait until Ville gets his shot - they won't have to go wide on him - they'll likely just go through him.

I'm sorry but I'll never understand fans taking shots at players when there is no need for it - Ville is getting his shot so why are we discussing Stan? We'll know soon enough - let it happen.

People love bringing Stanley in to bash him, whether it has anything to do with the op or not. I really didn't care about him either way outside of, you know, cheering for every player on our team, but all the hate around here really has me pulling for him.

 

[Jets 31]

Ville is going to get his chance to prove to everyone he is better than what we have - what are you complaining about?
I don't agree with your assessment of Stan - he doesn't get beat wider any more than the other 3rd pair guys. And wait until Ville gets his shot - they won't have to go wide on him - they'll likely just go through him.

I'm sorry but I'll never understand fans taking shots at players when there is no need for it - Ville is getting his shot so why are we discussing Stan? We'll know soon enough - let it happen.

People love bringing Stanley in to bash him, whether it has anything to do with the op or not. I really didn't care about him either way outside of, you know, cheering for every player on our team, but all the hate around here really has me pulling for him.

Not trying to bash Stanley , just was giving opinion and i brought him up because that's who Heinola is trying to beat out for a spot. Really I'm one of the last people to just bash a Jet but you guys can think that if you want.