Player Discussion: Heinola Thread
- Thread starter Hunter368
- Start date
Honestly no one including the Jets FO knows what Villie is going to do when he gets in. What we do know is that to start last year they thought he was better than Nate Schmidt to start the season that's about it.
At this point Logan Stanley looks like he's shown you what he has, the same can probably be said about Fleury.
Maybe he gets in and while having a different skill set then Stanley or Fluey delivers similar results, maybe he exceeds expectations who knows. For the Jets sake I hope he can be JoMo light that would be great. If not we'll then you're pretty much in the exact same position as you are now maybe that opens the door to bring in a LHD which would cost less than a RHD.
Either way with the start they've had and the points they've banked as soon as they feel he's ready physical he goes in and he probably gets a good 10-15 game look. That gets you to the holiday trade freeze and then they will make an internal evaluation on what they have seen.
At this point Logan Stanley looks like he's shown you what he has, the same can probably be said about Fleury.
Maybe he gets in and while having a different skill set then Stanley or Fluey delivers similar results, maybe he exceeds expectations who knows. For the Jets sake I hope he can be JoMo light that would be great. If not we'll then you're pretty much in the exact same position as you are now maybe that opens the door to bring in a LHD which would cost less than a RHD.
Either way with the start they've had and the points they've banked as soon as they feel he's ready physical he goes in and he probably gets a good 10-15 game look. That gets you to the holiday trade freeze and then they will make an internal evaluation on what they have seen.
Apart of the reason why Nuke ran wild was because he was bigger and stronger than most of the Jets defense. Yes. What did Hellebyuck say one of his problems was? Not seeing the puck because our 6ft 190lbs defensemen couldn’t move anyone and they didn’t win the battle for rebounds.
If you look at how the Stars played the Avs, instead of collapsing back into Hellebuyck because they were so shit scared of the speed of McKinnon and Makar leaving the middle of the high slot wide open for a trailer, they clogged the middle of their defensive zone and let those guys have the outside.
We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose. I saw a team that couldn't keep up to the Avs speed.
jokesondee
I’m not fat. I’m cultivating mass.
I dont know if its impossible to win a cup with an undersized D corps but its sure nice to have some bigger dudes come playoff time that can handle the physicality and dish it out. If im not mistaken the Golden Knights defensive corps are all like 6'2" or taller. That would be sweet.
Last edited:
The Avs won the Cup a few years ago with Makar (6'0", 190), Toews (6'1", 191), Girard (5'10", 170), but also had Manson and Jack Johnson.
I think a nice mix is best.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
- 10,505
- 9,902
Jack Johnson I believe came in when Girard got injured, so that the Avs had 3 smaller faster defensemen (incl. 6'1", 190 Byram) and 3 bigger guys on the back end, 215 plus, with Erik Johnson.
The smaller faster defenses can win as proven by the Hawks but they had some battles with the bigger Kings defense, and when the Jets arrive in Vegas and L.A that's going to be a good litmus test for the team.
Buffdog
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2019
- 8,395
- 20,450
That's because most human beings are closer to that size. There's no causation there
LA didn't exactly have a big defense either. They had a couple big players in Mitchell and Green but Voyonov, Scudri and Doughty aren't big guys.
I mean it's not like that Dallas D that beat the AVS were a bunch of giants
Heiskanen 6-2 197 vs JoMo 6-0 195
Harley 6-4 206 vs Demelo 6-1 194
Lindell 6-3 216 vs Samberg 6-4 216
Tanev 6-2 193 vs Pionk 6-0 190
Sutter 6-1 201 vs Miller 6-1 201
Lundqvist 6-1 190 vs ?????
Dallas has 6 inches and 17 ilbs more in thier top 5 vs the Jets current group. Toss big Stan in there on the bottom pair and it's basically completely even.
Heiskanen 6-2 197 vs JoMo 6-0 195
Harley 6-4 206 vs Demelo 6-1 194
Lindell 6-3 216 vs Samberg 6-4 216
Tanev 6-2 193 vs Pionk 6-0 190
Sutter 6-1 201 vs Miller 6-1 201
Lundqvist 6-1 190 vs ?????
Dallas has 6 inches and 17 ilbs more in thier top 5 vs the Jets current group. Toss big Stan in there on the bottom pair and it's basically completely even.
Duke749
Savannah Ghost Pirates
I mean, an inch or two at most positions can make a big difference. Ideally though you’d like your best Dman to be about 6’2 and can skate. But as long as you have good skaters that’s the most important part in todays league.
Arthur Fonzarelli
"aaaaay"
Heinola didn't beat out Schmidt last season. He beat out Chisholm. Then he got hurt & Chisholm took his spot on the opening day roster.
First off Heinola & Schmidt play different positions. They'd actually been a pairing in training camp & played a few pre season games together.
Schmidt was an excellent bottom pairing defensemen during his time in Winnipeg, the issue was always paying a bottom pairing defensemen 6 million. Florida signed him in a heartbeat after the buy-out & he's presently in the top 6 on the defending Stanley Cup champions.
Further Heinola only "made the team out of camp." There was never clarification where in the line-up he'd play. The day prior to Heinola's injury Ates reported "there's zero chance Ville will start the season in the top six, but he's earned a spot on the opening day roster."
Who knows once the season prgressed what would have happened had Ville not gotten injured. As I've mentioned elsewhere, Moose fans know Ville hasn't been groomed to play his weak side, but after a minor preseason injury to Schmidt necessitated Bones shifting the pairings, Ville found himself in practice & in multiple pre-season games as Dillon's RD.
Despite being in unfamiliar territory, Ville excelled with Dillon & the Heinola hype train was in full effect. It's now well known that Pionk played the entirety of last season with ankle issues, so I'm sure the Dillon/Heinola pairing opened some eyes & had Chevy thinking of a Schmidt buy-out LONG before it actually happened.
With regards to your post, all we know is Ville made the opening day lineup, but the injury prevented whatever hand Chevy was planning on playing from ever occurring. I think we can all agree than a near league minimum Heinola trumped a $6 million Schmidt.
There were lots of questions coming out of last years training camp, but it's conjecture to assume that Schmidt, who played opening day, had himself an excellent camp (& an excellent season) was coming out of that lineup.
Last edited:
raideralex99
Whiteout Is Coming.
Size and strength comes into play clearing the front of the net and winning board battles.
The best pairing imo is having a good skating D-man who can carry the puck out of the zone and his partner is more the defensive tough guy who protects his goalie's space and takes no crap.
The best pairing imo is having a good skating D-man who can carry the puck out of the zone and his partner is more the defensive tough guy who protects his goalie's space and takes no crap.
- Jun 10, 2014
- 58,974
- 31,495
Its also an advantage being smaller and quicker. Smarter is a big asset regardless of size.
Now, if you can be big, strong, fast, quick and smart .........
They don't know what he is going to do in the NHL. 10 games 2 years ago doesn't tell them what he will do now.
They know what he can do in the AHL. He can either bring that to the NHL or he can't. They are going to give him a chance to do that. It is not about showing the fans.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
- 10,505
- 9,902
I was at the opening game against the Hawks, and when Bedard was stickhandling 1 on 4 through the ice I was the only fan yelling hit him, which Pionk did. So I'd say he listens to his coaches, which was a knock on Sami Niku. As a player his style reminds me of Torey Krug, on the Bruins, a lower center of gravity player who has some edge. Don't know what that translates into in the backhalf of a career. Pionk is probably more cerebral offensively, and maybe that's from practicing with Morrissey all these years. He and Samberg are a huge reason for the team's improvement, and you can try to separate the two from each other's success but I think that's one part chemistry.
Heinola still has to find the players on the team he complements with his style of play, but Miller is a more physical defenseman than the Jets have had at RD since the Buff/Trouba years, might be a good fit there. Same thing with Ehlers, and Perfetti, who he has some experience with on the Moose.
Last edited:
DeepFrickinValue
Formally Ruffus
- May 14, 2015
- 5,519
- 4,582
Top team in the league has the luxury to play some rookies. Create your own adversity now as you will need to deal with it when injuries arise.
Crocket
Registered User
- Jul 14, 2013
- 1,160
- 593
Those guys are actually above average size, but there is a range of optimal size for a hockey player.
He's playing against the Wild. He's getting a long look for sure. He is above Stan and Fluery right now on the depth chart.Resume eating popcorn in the press box?
- Jun 10, 2014
- 58,974
- 31,495
Exactly, they know how he should translate his game to the big team. Now it will be up to him to do it.
Howard Chuck
Registered User
I remember a reporter last year saying he was the best dman in camp and it wasn’t even close. Don’t remember who.
The year before, a gm said that Ville was the best prospect in Canada. Don’t remember who.
Now Arniel says he’s a big fan.
He attracts a lot of attention.
Last edited:
- Dec 29, 2016
- 7,736
- 14,119
No he isn't - you might like him to be but until he has shown anyone that he can play NHL minutes, he's below both these guys.
I have to laugh at how we as fans think we determine where a player sits on the depth chart - especially one that isn't even playing
Arthur Fonzarelli
"aaaaay"
Clearing the net, winning board battles all occur when the puck is not in your possession. All the lost board battles & lost net front battles you're referring to often stem from defenders unable to either pass or skate the puck out of their zone.
Sure big is good, but in todays NHL mobile is better. We just watched a 5-0 game when Florida's game plan was exactly what Colorado did to end our season last spring.
The Jets sit atop the NHL. I can't wait to see what this team looks like if Ville reaches his potential!
DeepFrickinValue
Formally Ruffus
- May 14, 2015
- 5,519
- 4,582
Shitty teams can’t play small dmen as they spend too long in their own zone. Good teams are able to use small dmen more effictively.
Seems all the good small dmen are on pretty good teams.
