Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[Mortimer Snerd]

The piece I think your missing is that it's hard for him to really work on boxing players out, breaking up cycles etc when he doesn't spend much time in his end so there is less chance for repetition on learning these skills. His strengths allow him to retrieve and move the puck out of his end quickly so he doesn't often have situations where the other team has a lot of zone time.

He also isn't playing super aggressive in the ozone. He's picking his spots and being fairly conservative when the situation calls for it so that he's not putting the team in a situation where there is an odd man break against.

There seems to be a bit of a disconnect in the discussion. There are more ways than one to play well defensively. Not every Dman needs to be cut from the same cloth and play the same way. Boxing out in front of the net, winning board battles, etc are not the only elements of good defense.

There also seems to be some disagreement with your description of his defensive play. Not whether or not that would constitute successful defense, but whether or not he is actually doing that much of it. Have you watched the interview with coach Dubois?

Can't comment on those things myself since I haven't watched the Moose at all.

 

[LowLefty]

The piece I think your missing is that it's hard for him to really work on boxing players out, breaking up cycles etc when he doesn't spend much time in his end so there is less chance for repetition on learning these skills. His strengths allow him to retrieve and move the puck out of his end quickly so he doesn't often have situations where the other team has a lot of zone time.

He also isn't playing super aggressive in the ozone. He's picking his spots and being fairly conservative when the situation calls for it so that he's not putting the team in a situation where there is an odd man break against.

Listening the the Moose coach comments, it sounds like he has been doing better in the defensive areas of the game - in other words, there are opportunities for him to improve on the Moose.

 

[LowLefty]

There seems to be a bit of a disconnect in the discussion. There are more ways than one to play well defensively. Not every Dman needs to be cut from the same cloth and play the same way. Boxing out in front of the net, winning board battles, etc are not the only elements of good defense.

There also seems to be some disagreement with your description of his defensive play. Not whether or not that would constitute successful defense, but whether or not he is actually doing that much of it. Have you watched the interview with coach Dubois?

Can't comment on those things myself since I haven't watched the Moose at all.

That's what I'm pushing off -

 

[LowLefty]

Reminds me of my mother telling me I couldn't go in the water until I learned how to swim.....

He's in the water - just not the deep end

 

[DRW204]

The piece I think your missing is that it's hard for him to really work on boxing players out, breaking up cycles etc when he doesn't spend much time in his end so there is less chance for repetition on learning these skills. His strengths allow him to retrieve and move the puck out of his end quickly so he doesn't often have situations where the other team has a lot of zone time.

He also isn't playing super aggressive in the ozone. He's picking his spots and being fairly conservative when the situation calls for it so that he's not putting the team in a situation where there is an odd man break against.

if maurice wants every player to be perfect before entering his line up, he should be taking a long hard look at a lot of his personnel or line combos. heinola might have defense as a weakness, which would probably be similar weakness to a lot of players or combos maurice has iced since 2019. however, how many players have the potential upside with his actual puck skills/offense/puck moving? if only heinola was 6'1+ from North America

 

[Adam da bomb]

if maurice wants every player to be perfect before entering his line up, he should be taking a long hard look at a lot of his personnel or line combos. heinola might have defense as a weakness, which would probably be similar weakness to a lot of players or combos maurice has iced since 2019. however, how many players have the potential upside with his actual puck skills/offense/puck moving? if only heinola was 6'1+ from North America

Size may make a difference, the fact that Maurice plays favorites and has a type of player he trusts is well noted, but, accusing Maurice of being xenophobic, or not liking players because they are not from North America is unfair.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Size may make a difference, the fact that Maurice plays favorites and has a type of player he trusts is well noted, but, accusing Maurice of being xenophobic, or not liking players because they are not from North America is unfair.

It’s an interesting thought though - not many of our non North American prospects really get a shot now that I think of it

Laine and Ehlers have/had a much shorter leash than Connor etc -
Now Svech seems to be buried - I don’t think it’s xenophobia but Maurice def prefers the North American style

 

[Adam da bomb]

It’s an interesting thought though - not many of our non North American prospects really get a shot now that I think of it

Laine and Ehlers have/had a much shorter leash than Connor etc -
Now Svech seems to be buried - I don’t think it’s xenophobia but Maurice def prefers the North American style

Isn't the North American style just a north south game? Laine versus Connor, I think it's like Tanev versus Dano. Maurice prefers players who look like they are trying out there. Laine was so cerebral that even if he was giving 100% a lot of the time you didn't see the effort as much as Connor who skates really fast and may lose the puck but you clearly see the effort. Like an Ovie style without as much skill.
I can see Gus getting a chance on a maurice team because I think he plays North South. Not a North American versus European thing. Perfetti is not getting special preference right now because he is a good Canadian. He is struggling to make the line up because he, like Laine is a more cerebral player. It also could be a development thing but I don't think he is getting special treatment.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Don't really want to wade into the nationality argument, but I do feel like there are some misconceptions floating around about Heinola's game. Moose watchers will recognize these traits of his game as it has evolved since his first season:

- He is very far from a Niku-type defender as caricatured here -- Ville skates and plays hard and is engaged and involved in all 3 zones

- Like Perfetti, when he's on the ice the play really does flow through him, in both directions -- his underlying metrics are excellent, and he is rarely chasing the back in any zone. When pundits note that "the puck seems to follow him around," their eye-test is in sync with the stats

- He is not a floater or bystander in his own zone, nor does he shy away from physical contact -- in fact, there's a definite edge to his game, more like Pionk o JMo than, say, Schmidt

- His top-line speed is good, but like Perfetti he also has excellent 4-way mobility and edgework which combined with his elite processing of the game mean he is usually the first man to a puck and isn't easy to push off it -- he isn't going to suddenly become a big-bodied strongman who "clears the net" -- but how many of our current big-bodied D are doing that effectively anyway?

- His first pass is likely the best in the AHL at the moment -- quick, accurate, decisive and he picks the best option almost always. I would argue that other than DeMelo he would already be the best or among the best of our current D at this important transition skill

- His ability to open up seams and spaces on the PP is also elite -- he and Perfetti carve PKs apart with their movement, puck control and possession, vision and passing, and this extends to the PK, where his ability to retrieve and exit is an important part of a top-end PK

- The kid can shoot. Like, really shoot, picking corners and setting up rebounds, Again, he's already a more dangerous shooting option than at least 4 out of our present D corps

- He is smart. Perfetti smart. He is a very quick learner, is adapt on either side and -- incredible! -- seems not to need months or even weeks to learn to play well beside a new partner. It will not take Ville a season to be effective in the NHL, or 3 years to master PoMo's intricate systems

- He's unlikely to fling himself in front of puck at a Bealieu level -- but so what? A good PK isn't constantly blocking shots because it's already disrupted the lanes and closed off options (see recent clinic put on by the Hurricanes). In every other aspect of the modern d-man's game he is superior to a Beaulieu-type player, IMO

In short, while Ville may not get worse in another season in the AHL, he's unlikely to get better. Go back and watch any of the clips/ recaps posted by IllegalCurve or others who watch the Moose regularly. Heinola's strengths are already at or beyond an NHL entry level. His weaknesses (size, style, coping with NHL speed and skill) are not going to improved by playing against players he's already better than and is regularly dominating, just as my tennis game isn't improved by playing a colleague who I am beating in straight sets instead of a colleague who I have to work and learn to compete against

The fact that Maurice doesn't trust him (if he doesn't) in the Maurice Systems is less about Heinola and more about Maurice and his systems, and I'm not sure what changes that. But I don't think it's accurate or fair to view Heinola as a player with major deficiencies in his D game that will somehow be cured by an extended stay in the A, anymore than Stanley's foot speed was, or Connor's backchecking. And to lump him in with Niku and Petan is waaayyyy off the mark, although there are some overlaps in terms of dev blindspots there possible

Anyhoo, my uninformed analysis.

 

[DRW204]

He squandered Gustafsons chance to play in front of his family who made the trip to new York only to play him once they were done the NY trip in 2019. Forward to this year, guy was basically gloating like a proud Papa when perefetti played. Ehlers couldn't play in the AHL so it was jrs or nhl, wonder how long Maurice would have buried Ehlers in the AHL if he hasn't put up 0.5ppg as a rookie.

It’s an interesting thought though - not many of our non North American prospects really get a shot now that I think of it

Laine and Ehlers have/had a much shorter leash than Connor etc -
Now Svech seems to be buried - I don’t think it’s xenophobia but Maurice def prefers the North American style

 

[Adam da bomb]

Don't really want to wade into the nationality argument, but I do feel like there are some misconceptions floating around about Heinola's game. Moose watchers will recognize these traits of his game as it has evolved since his first season:

- He is very far from a Niku-type defender as caricatured here -- Ville skates and plays hard and is engaged and involved in all 3 zones

- Like Perfetti, when he's on the ice the play really does flow through him, in both directions -- his underlying metrics are excellent, and he is rarely chasing the back in any zone. When pundits note that "the puck seems to follow him around," their eye-test is in sync with the stats

- He is not a floater or bystander in his own zone, nor does he shy away from physical contact -- in fact, there's a definite edge to his game, more like Pionk o JMo than, say, Schmidt

- His top-line speed is good, but like Perfetti he also has excellent 4-way mobility and edgework which combined with his elite processing of the game mean he is usually the first man to a puck and isn't easy to push off it -- he isn't going to suddenly become a big-bodied strongman who "clears the net" -- but how many of our current big-bodied D are doing that effectively anyway?

- His first pass is likely the best in the AHL at the moment -- quick, accurate, decisive and he picks the best option almost always. I would argue that other than DeMelo he would already be the best or among the best of our current D at this important transition skill

- His ability to open up seams and spaces on the PP is also elite -- he and Perfetti carve PKs apart with their movement, puck control and possession, vision and passing, and this extends to the PK, where his ability to retrieve and exit is an important part of a top-end PK

- The kid can shoot. Like, really shoot, picking corners and setting up rebounds, Again, he's already a more dangerous shooting option than at least 4 out of our present D corps

- He is smart. Perfetti smart. He is a very quick learner, is adapt on either side and -- incredible! -- seems not to need months or even weeks to learn to play well beside a new partner. It will not take Ville a season to be effective in the NHL, or 3 years to master PoMo's intricate systems

- He's unlikely to fling himself in front of puck at a Bealieu level -- but so what? A good PK isn't constantly blocking shots because it's already disrupted the lanes and closed off options (see recent clinic put on by the Hurricanes). In every other aspect of the modern d-man's game he is superior to a Beaulieu-type player, IMO

In short, while Ville may not get worse in another season in the AHL, he's unlikely to get better. Go back and watch any of the clips/ recaps posted by IllegalCurve or others who watch the Moose regularly. Heinola's strengths are already at or beyond an NHL entry level. His weaknesses (size, style, coping with NHL speed and skill) are not going to improved by playing against players he's already better than and is regularly dominating, just as my tennis game isn't improved by playing a colleague who I am beating in straight sets instead of a colleague who I have to work and learn to compete against

The fact that Maurice doesn't trust him (if he doesn't) in the Maurice Systems is less about Heinola and more about Maurice and his systems, and I'm not sure what changes that. But I don't think it's accurate or fair to view Heinola as a player with major deficiencies in his D game that will somehow be cured by an extended stay in the A, anymore than Stanley's foot speed was, or Connor's backchecking. And to lump him in with Niku and Petan is waaayyyy off the mark, although there are some overlaps in terms of dev blindspots there possible

Anyhoo, my uninformed analysis.

Great analysis. I think there was no blind spots to Niku he just wasn’t very good. I also find it interesting that you suggest demelo’s first pass is anything special. I think Schmidt, Pionk, morissey and possibly Stanley all have a better first pass than demelo.

 

[Adam da bomb]

He squandered Gustafsons chance to play in front of his family who made the trip to new York only to play him once they were done the NY trip in 2019. Forward to this year, guy was basically gloating like a proud Papa when perefetti played. Ehlers couldn't play in the AHL so it was jrs or nhl, wonder how long Maurice would have buried Ehlers in the AHL if he hasn't put up 0.5ppg as a rookie.

A proud father that sent Perfetti down as soon as he could. Gustaffson’s chance to play in front of his family? These guys are all millionaires or soon to be millionaires he can pay for his family to come see him at anytime in the future.

 

[FonRiesen]

Don't really want to wade into the nationality argument, but I do feel like there are some misconceptions floating around about Heinola's game. Moose watchers will recognize these traits of his game as it has evolved since his first season:

- He is very far from a Niku-type defender as caricatured here -- Ville skates and plays hard and is engaged and involved in all 3 zones

- Like Perfetti, when he's on the ice the play really does flow through him, in both directions -- his underlying metrics are excellent, and he is rarely chasing the back in any zone. When pundits note that "the puck seems to follow him around," their eye-test is in sync with the stats

- He is not a floater or bystander in his own zone, nor does he shy away from physical contact -- in fact, there's a definite edge to his game, more like Pionk o JMo than, say, Schmidt

- His top-line speed is good, but like Perfetti he also has excellent 4-way mobility and edgework which combined with his elite processing of the game mean he is usually the first man to a puck and isn't easy to push off it -- he isn't going to suddenly become a big-bodied strongman who "clears the net" -- but how many of our current big-bodied D are doing that effectively anyway?

- His first pass is likely the best in the AHL at the moment -- quick, accurate, decisive and he picks the best option almost always. I would argue that other than DeMelo he would already be the best or among the best of our current D at this important transition skill

- His ability to open up seams and spaces on the PP is also elite -- he and Perfetti carve PKs apart with their movement, puck control and possession, vision and passing, and this extends to the PK, where his ability to retrieve and exit is an important part of a top-end PK

- The kid can shoot. Like, really shoot, picking corners and setting up rebounds, Again, he's already a more dangerous shooting option than at least 4 out of our present D corps

- He is smart. Perfetti smart. He is a very quick learner, is adapt on either side and -- incredible! -- seems not to need months or even weeks to learn to play well beside a new partner. It will not take Ville a season to be effective in the NHL, or 3 years to master PoMo's intricate systems

- He's unlikely to fling himself in front of puck at a Bealieu level -- but so what? A good PK isn't constantly blocking shots because it's already disrupted the lanes and closed off options (see recent clinic put on by the Hurricanes). In every other aspect of the modern d-man's game he is superior to a Beaulieu-type player, IMO

In short, while Ville may not get worse in another season in the AHL, he's unlikely to get better. Go back and watch any of the clips/ recaps posted by IllegalCurve or others who watch the Moose regularly. Heinola's strengths are already at or beyond an NHL entry level. His weaknesses (size, style, coping with NHL speed and skill) are not going to improved by playing against players he's already better than and is regularly dominating, just as my tennis game isn't improved by playing a colleague who I am beating in straight sets instead of a colleague who I have to work and learn to compete against

The fact that Maurice doesn't trust him (if he doesn't) in the Maurice Systems is less about Heinola and more about Maurice and his systems, and I'm not sure what changes that. But I don't think it's accurate or fair to view Heinola as a player with major deficiencies in his D game that will somehow be cured by an extended stay in the A, anymore than Stanley's foot speed was, or Connor's backchecking. And to lump him in with Niku and Petan is waaayyyy off the mark, although there are some overlaps in terms of dev blindspots there possible

Anyhoo, my uninformed analysis.

Beauty post! Z
Re: the bolded - to my eye test, clearing bodies is relatively ineffective in today's NHL. It's all about body positioning and tying up the O's stick. You avoid crosschecking penalties and who cares if you send a body flying AFTER a deflection or rebound pickup... I've seen many goals scored where the defender played the body and left the stick/puck unattended.

 

[LowLefty]

Don't really want to wade into the nationality argument, but I do feel like there are some misconceptions floating around about Heinola's game. Moose watchers will recognize these traits of his game as it has evolved since his first season:

- He is very far from a Niku-type defender as caricatured here -- Ville skates and plays hard and is engaged and involved in all 3 zones

- Like Perfetti, when he's on the ice the play really does flow through him, in both directions -- his underlying metrics are excellent, and he is rarely chasing the back in any zone. When pundits note that "the puck seems to follow him around," their eye-test is in sync with the stats

- He is not a floater or bystander in his own zone, nor does he shy away from physical contact -- in fact, there's a definite edge to his game, more like Pionk o JMo than, say, Schmidt

- His top-line speed is good, but like Perfetti he also has excellent 4-way mobility and edgework which combined with his elite processing of the game mean he is usually the first man to a puck and isn't easy to push off it -- he isn't going to suddenly become a big-bodied strongman who "clears the net" -- but how many of our current big-bodied D are doing that effectively anyway?

- His first pass is likely the best in the AHL at the moment -- quick, accurate, decisive and he picks the best option almost always. I would argue that other than DeMelo he would already be the best or among the best of our current D at this important transition skill

- His ability to open up seams and spaces on the PP is also elite -- he and Perfetti carve PKs apart with their movement, puck control and possession, vision and passing, and this extends to the PK, where his ability to retrieve and exit is an important part of a top-end PK

- The kid can shoot. Like, really shoot, picking corners and setting up rebounds, Again, he's already a more dangerous shooting option than at least 4 out of our present D corps

- He is smart. Perfetti smart. He is a very quick learner, is adapt on either side and -- incredible! -- seems not to need months or even weeks to learn to play well beside a new partner. It will not take Ville a season to be effective in the NHL, or 3 years to master PoMo's intricate systems

- He's unlikely to fling himself in front of puck at a Bealieu level -- but so what? A good PK isn't constantly blocking shots because it's already disrupted the lanes and closed off options (see recent clinic put on by the Hurricanes). In every other aspect of the modern d-man's game he is superior to a Beaulieu-type player, IMO

In short, while Ville may not get worse in another season in the AHL, he's unlikely to get better. Go back and watch any of the clips/ recaps posted by IllegalCurve or others who watch the Moose regularly. Heinola's strengths are already at or beyond an NHL entry level. His weaknesses (size, style, coping with NHL speed and skill) are not going to improved by playing against players he's already better than and is regularly dominating, just as my tennis game isn't improved by playing a colleague who I am beating in straight sets instead of a colleague who I have to work and learn to compete against

The fact that Maurice doesn't trust him (if he doesn't) in the Maurice Systems is less about Heinola and more about Maurice and his systems, and I'm not sure what changes that. But I don't think it's accurate or fair to view Heinola as a player with major deficiencies in his D game that will somehow be cured by an extended stay in the A, anymore than Stanley's foot speed was, or Connor's backchecking. And to lump him in with Niku and Petan is waaayyyy off the mark, although there are some overlaps in terms of dev blindspots there possible

Anyhoo, my uninformed analysis.

If all this is true, he's probably better than anyone in our top 4
Listening to his coach, it sounds like he is working on some of the areas that probably needed some work - perfect.
I assume the coach is referring to recent games when he states that he has seen an improvement (D side) and called it out with the player.
Hopefully he is somewhere close to being as good as described - look forward to seeing.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Great analysis. I think there was no blind spots to Niku he just wasn’t very good. I also find it interesting that you suggest demelo’s first pass is anything special. I think Schmidt, Pionk, morissey and possibly Stanley all have a better first pass than demelo.

DD isn’t flashy but he almost never misses with that first pass, which may help explain why he’s so efficient by the numbers. But you’re absolutely right to point out that I shoukd have clarified that I was thinking about D there because we have some very good luck movers now — but DeMelo is remarkably good at nailing the short, simple passing option that clears the zone and rarely gives it away.

But certainly Schmidt etc have superior vision to spring the O for some spectacular plays. I don’t think the team needs to see that from Heinola at this point though; just as it didn’t from Stan. He’s going to have to play it safe before he spreads his wings.

 

[Adam da bomb]

DD isn’t flashy but he almost never misses with that first pass, which may help explain why he’s so efficient by the numbers. But you’re absolutely right to point out that I shoukd have clarified that I was thinking about D there because we have some very good luck movers now — but DeMelo is remarkably good at nailing the short, simple passing option that clears the zone and rarely gives it away.

But certainly Schmidt etc have superior vision to spring the O for some spectacular plays. I don’t think the team needs to see that from Heinola at this point though; just as it didn’t from Stan. He’s going to have to play it safe before he spreads his wings.

Anyway I loved the analysis and really appreciate it as I don’t have the time or interest to follow players on the moose but love to hear how our prospects are doing.

 

[DRW204]

A proud father that sent Perfetti down as soon as he could. Gustaffson’s chance to play in front of his family? These guys are all millionaires or soon to be millionaires he can pay for his family to come see him at anytime in the future.

you only get 1 NHL debut. if it was as insignificant as you claim then why he make such a big deal & all the hooplah out of perfetti's or nearly every other young nhlers debut. look who played ahead of him, Simon Borque hmmm. secondly, it was already made up in camp perfetti was never going to be in the nhl but they give him the chance to debut and have his family in town on opening night.

 

[BoneDocUK]

If all this is true, he's probably better than anyone in our top 4
Listening to his coach, it sounds like he is working on some of the areas that probably needed some work - perfect.
I assume the coach is referring to recent games when he states that he has seen an improvement (D side) and called it out with the player.
Hopefully he is somewhere close to being as good as described - look forward to seeing.

Nope, you're right to be skeptical and I would never argue that -- all these observations are in the context of his AHL play. I would def expect him to experience some struggles in keeping players with speed and size to the outside, in finding time and space to make those quick passes without being closed down by NHL-level forechecking where he won't get the respect he seems to in th A, and in using his positioning to interrupt plays more quickly because of that delta in skill and speed he'll face in the NHL -- I think what we saw last year with Stanley as he made his adjustments is likely a pretty good template for Heinola, except that it will be less about footspeed and getting beat inside and more about getting used to those differences in pace and skill and also to spending more time in his own zone having to fight to retrieve and distribute pucks.

These are all real and difficult challenges and it's possible he'll never make those adjustments, but he's going to have deal with them at some point if he's going to contribute to the Jets and not the Moose. He'll struggle, he'll make mistakes, and hopefully he'll learn from them and develop into the impact top 4 defender most pundits expect him to be and the Jets need him to be if they plan to be perennial contenders as they've indicated.

I don't see him getting that chance this year unless there are significant injuries. But I don't see how you can keep a player like him down for much longer in the A when what he needs to learn are things he will only learn in the NHL. I think Ehlers was in that boat, and Cole is soon -- and Gus has been there for a while back but we'll see him soon now I expect.

I realize that I may be wildly overestimating Ville's present capabilities and future upside and impact. But I was talking to a colleague the other day who repped Team Canada at the WJC years ago and played for several NHL teams, and he was saying that of all the prospects he's watched for the teams he pays attention to he found Heinola among the most itriguing, because he plays so far ahead of the game. (he also thinks Perfetti is gonna be the Jets' Dougie Gilmore, so fingers crossed). I do really think there's something special there.

 

[Adam da bomb]

you only get 1 NHL debut. if it was as insignificant as you claim then why he make such a big deal & all the hooplah out of perfetti's or nearly every other young nhlers debut. look who played ahead of him, Simon Borque hmmm. secondly, it was already made up in camp perfetti was never going to be in the nhl but they give him the chance to debut and have his family in town on opening night.

You nailed it. It’s xenophobia. Gus and perfetti have the exact same draft pedigree and there is no pressure to play the guy who is our highest draft pick in 5 years. Fans weren’t salivating for it.
End of the day Mo will always play the vet when given the choice. I don't agree with that choice, I think Gus should have played, I just don't think it's a bigger pattern of hatred towards a group of players because of where they are from.

 

[LowLefty]

Nope, you're right to be skeptical and I would never argue that -- all these observations are in the context of his AHL play. I would def expect him to experience some struggles in keeping players with speed and size to the outside, in finding time and space to make those quick passes without being closed down by NHL-level forechecking where he won't get the respect he seems to in th A, and in using his positioning to interrupt plays more quickly because of that delta in skill and speed he'll face in the NHL -- I think what we saw last year with Stanley as he made his adjustments is likely a pretty good template for Heinola, except that it will be less about footspeed and getting beat inside and more about getting used to those differences in pace and skill and also to spending more time in his own zone having to fight to retrieve and distribute pucks.

These are all real and difficult challenges and it's possible he'll never make those adjustments, but he's going to have deal with them at some point if he's going to contribute to the Jets and not the Moose. He'll struggle, he'll make mistakes, and hopefully he'll learn from them and develop into the impact top 4 defender most pundits expect him to be and the Jets need him to be if they plan to be perennial contenders as they've indicated.

I don't see him getting that chance this year unless there are significant injuries. But I don't see how you can keep a player like him down for much longer in the A when what he needs to learn are things he will only learn in the NHL. I think Ehlers was in that boat, and Cole is soon -- and Gus has been there for a while back but we'll see him soon now I expect.

I realize that I may be wildly overestimating Ville's present capabilities and future upside and impact. But I was talking to a colleague the other day who repped Team Canada at the WJC years ago and played for several NHL teams, and he was saying that of all the prospects he's watched for the teams he pays attention to he found Heinola among the most itriguing, because he plays so far ahead of the game. (he also thinks Perfetti is gonna be the Jets' Dougie Gilmore, so fingers crossed). I do really think there's something special there.

Great response - couldn't agree more

 

[KingBogo]

He squandered Gustafsons chance to play in front of his family who made the trip to new York only to play him once they were done the NY trip in 2019. Forward to this year, guy was basically gloating like a proud Papa when perefetti played. Ehlers couldn't play in the AHL so it was jrs or nhl, wonder how long Maurice would have buried Ehlers in the AHL if he hasn't put up 0.5ppg as a rookie.

I think you are confusing the order of things. The first step is the coach puts you in the lineup and then you phone your parents and they come watch your first game. If your parents go on a trip hoping you will play you don't automatically get put into the lineup because they are in town.

 

[snowkiddin]

He isn't doing anything wrong he just is playing to his strengths which I think is how you'd want every player to play.

Do you want him to stop doing the things he's good at so that he spends more time in his end and works on areas that he needs some work on.

The org essentially already tried this with Laine and it didn’t work out great, so I would hope not.

 

[Adam da bomb]

The org essentially already tried this with Laine and it didn’t work out great, so I would hope not.

I wouldn't put all of Laine's development on the team, but, agree with your point, let players play to their strengths.

 

[surixon]

The org essentially already tried this with Laine and it didn’t work out great, so I would hope not.

I don't know that I agree on Laine. They still played him to his strengths on the pp. They seemingly wanted him to add different layers to his game 5 on 5 as his finesse first game wasn't translating as well as hopped.

They didn't stop him from opening up to take a shot when he played.

I see trying to get players to add layers on top of what they are good at is what coaches and development personnel should be doing. It's what the best players in the world do to stay at the top.

 

[surixon]

Nope, you're right to be skeptical and I would never argue that -- all these observations are in the context of his AHL play. I would def expect him to experience some struggles in keeping players with speed and size to the outside, in finding time and space to make those quick passes without being closed down by NHL-level forechecking where he won't get the respect he seems to in th A, and in using his positioning to interrupt plays more quickly because of that delta in skill and speed he'll face in the NHL -- I think what we saw last year with Stanley as he made his adjustments is likely a pretty good template for Heinola, except that it will be less about footspeed and getting beat inside and more about getting used to those differences in pace and skill and also to spending more time in his own zone having to fight to retrieve and distribute pucks.

These are all real and difficult challenges and it's possible he'll never make those adjustments, but he's going to have deal with them at some point if he's going to contribute to the Jets and not the Moose. He'll struggle, he'll make mistakes, and hopefully he'll learn from them and develop into the impact top 4 defender most pundits expect him to be and the Jets need him to be if they plan to be perennial contenders as they've indicated.

I don't see him getting that chance this year unless there are significant injuries. But I don't see how you can keep a player like him down for much longer in the A when what he needs to learn are things he will only learn in the NHL. I think Ehlers was in that boat, and Cole is soon -- and Gus has been there for a while back but we'll see him soon now I expect.

I realize that I may be wildly overestimating Ville's present capabilities and future upside and impact. But I was talking to a colleague the other day who repped Team Canada at the WJC years ago and played for several NHL teams, and he was saying that of all the prospects he's watched for the teams he pays attention to he found Heinola among the most itriguing, because he plays so far ahead of the game. (he also thinks Perfetti is gonna be the Jets' Dougie Gilmore, so fingers crossed). I do really think there's something special there.

I'm not as bullish on his upside as you are but I still see no reason why he doesn't turn into a modern ice tilting top 4 dmen like Samuel Girard on the Avalanche