Post-Game Talk: heave ho! 8 in a row (At home)

[PuckLuck3043]

He's basically useless outside the top-6, and doesn't deserve to be there. He can't create offense on his own. He had a nice goal today, and scored in the shootout, and that's great, and I hope he keeps scoring, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Vesey is good at one thing, and that's getting into the correct position to get a good attempt off. You can't really teach that. But, that's all he's good at. His two-way game is brutal. If he's not scoring, he's hurting you, and he doesn't score very often.

Across the last two seasons, he's skated 1200 minutes of 5v5 time. Among the 153 forwards who meet that same threshold, he's 6th to last in total points. 15th to last in primary points. 11th to last in p/60. 24th to last in primary points per 60.

If you want to get more advanced, he's:

6th to last in relative shot attempt %
4th to last in relative expected goals %
3rd to last in relative goals %

[all data via Corsica.Hockey]

So. In my opinion, via my eyes and some analysis, it's not totally outrageous to believe that Jimmy Vesey might not be an "NHL Player". I maintain that it is extremely unfortunate that he was not sent to the AHL last year, and that it sucks that he would need waivers to do it this year, because if he didn't, I'd send him to the A now.

Are there better options in the Rangers organization right now? Probably not. Should Vesey continue to be shoehorned into the top-6 every chance AV gets? No way.

He's played well the last 4-5 games since being moved down, scored the tying and winning SO goal today. He scored 16 goals last year and was pretty good in the playoffs. He is definitely an NHL player.

 

[Fitzy]

Skjei was outstanding this game. The only good defender in a shitshow of a game defensively for NYR, logged 27 minutes.

Come playoff time, NYR should feel able to occasionally shift to 5 blueliners in a rotation if McDonagh and Skjei continue to be their top 2 performers, and the bottom end of the lineup (Smith, Holden, Staal) are having particularly weak game.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

3 stars to Grabner, Nash and Hank. Honorable mention to Vesey but his goal never happens if not for Nash.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Those first two goals by Vancouver were "soft goals" according to a friend of mine who is a Ducks fan (and hates Vancouver). He kept asking me why Lundqvist looks so "out of it". This game he wasn't great at the start but he totally made up for it in the 2nd, 3rd and OT

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Those first two goals by Vancouver were "soft goals" according to a friend of mine who is a Ducks fan (and hates Vancouver). He kept asking me why Lundqvist looks so "out of it". This game he wasn't great at the start but he totally made up for it in the 2nd, 3rd and OT

I'd say the 1st goal was arguably soft. It was a shit turnover by Carey but Hank should have been able to square up and save it. 2nd goal was an absolute snipe from Virtanen off a crazy bounce, no chance.

 

[FultonReed]

HEAVE HO!!!

missed the entire game due to work. saw Jimmy's shootout goal though.

*Henry Hill gif*

 

[will1066]

A warm hand for Jimmy V. The kid contributed.

 

[NCRanger]

What the heck happened after the Fast goal?

I had to get my daughter from a birthday party. Listened to it on XM and heard Grabner tie it. Got back to the car and it was 3-3. Got home as OT started.

Never looked like they were winning this one.

 

[Mac n Gs]

For some weird reason, Vancouver seems to be down on a kid like Virtanen. If they’re selling, I’d buy and plug him into the bottom-6. He’ll never get back to where he was before the shoulder surgery, but he’s a really good skater, can hit, and can rifle the puck when he gets some space. He could be a useful modern-era “lunchpail” kinda guy. Vesey-Boo-Virtanen would be a bitch of a 4th line for other teams to handle

 

[NCRanger]

Rangers win! Feces with the winner in the shoot-out.

Is that intentional, or is it auto-correct?

 

[darko]

It's a shame that I have to create the PGT at 2 ****ing AM when I have to work at 8 haha.

You work?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Is that intentional, or is it auto-correct?

Intentional haha. I posted this in the GDT. I have my manager over for drinks and he watched the game with me. He's Australian. When Vesey had the puck, Sam mentioned it and he goes "Did he just say feces?" And I started laughing, explaining his name is Vesey.

Then he said "Well, he's da shit!" and then Vesey scored and he said "See? Told you. He's Da Shit!" which was even funnier when Vesey scored the game winner in the shootout

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You work?

Work tomorrow, flying to Helsinki on Tuesday.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Maybe PB is saying that he shouldn't be in the NHL, but I don't think he is.

You are right.

As I've mentioned many times, I think he's an NHL tweener, so he's more of a 13th forward than anything, doesn't score enough for the top 9, doesn't play good enough defense and not gritty enough to be a fourth liner. That to me equals a 13th forward. I believe he'd be wasting his time in the AHL, as I think he'd end up too good for that league, so 13th forward is the apt description for now. He has time to carve out a top 12 role, but I don't believe he does well in one now. The team also doesn't have 12 NHL top 12 forwards, so thats a different discussion, I did not say he should be in the AHL or anything like that.

@silverfish described my opinion rather well, I'm glad someone else came forward to do it, I know many have the same opinion and have expressed it many times, we all read the forum and see it. The Wagon guy who threw the bait out there knew it and was just looking for a fight. He distorted the opinion of those of us who often criticize Vesey, and tried to completely minimize the amount of people who have that opinion to make it seem like a few crazies, which its not. Its a legit opinion, he's trying to shut down an opinion with nothing other than pure emotion that he likes Vesey. Its a very real point that Vesey doesn't produce much offense or contribute much defensively or in possession.

 

[darko]

Work tomorrow, flying to Helsinki on Tuesday.

I hate you lol.

 

[Kovalev27]

First and third goals were bad. Second goal no chance.

But hank made some huge stops in the third and in OT. He would like to be better in the shootouts but those are his own words. Said he misses the good old days when he was good at them lol

Anyway it was a big win on a day we did not have it so will gladly take the 2 pts

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I hate you lol.

My travels and hockey for the next 4 months:

28/11: Fly to Helsinki
1/12: Alumni game Jokerit-SKA
2/12: Outdoor game Jokerit-SKA
3/12: Fly to Vienna
12/12: Fly to Zurich
12/12: CHL game ZSC Lions-Bili Tygri Liberec
13/12: Fly to Vienna
26/12: Fly to NYC
27/12: Train to Buffalo
28/12: Sweden-Czech Republic (World Juniors)
01/01: Winter Classic NHL game Rangers-Sabres
02/01: Fly to Sarasota
06/01: Fly to Phoenix
06/01: Coyotes-Rangers
07/01: Drive to Vegas
07/01: Golden Knights-Rangers
08/01: Drive to Phoenix
14/01: Fly to Vienna
19/01: Fly to St. Petersburg
20/01: KHL game SKA-Amur Khabarovsk
22/01: Fly to Vienna
02/02: Fly to The Hague for Superbowl weekend
04/02: Fly to Vienna
08/03: Fly to Stockholm
09/03: Drive to Goteborg
10/03: SHL game Frolunda-Brynas
11/03: Fly to Vienna

 

[Siddi]

My travels and hockey for the next 4 months:

28/11: Fly to Helsinki
1/12: Alumni game Jokerit-SKA
2/12: Outdoor game Jokerit-SKA
3/12: Fly to Vienna
12/12: Fly to Zurich
12/12: CHL game ZSC Lions-Bili Tygri Liberec
13/12: Fly to Vienna
26/12: Fly to NYC
27/12: Train to Buffalo
28/12: Sweden-Czech Republic (World Juniors)
01/01: Winter Classic NHL game Rangers-Sabres
02/01: Fly to Sarasota
06/01: Fly to Phoenix
06/01: Coyotes-Rangers
07/01: Drive to Vegas
07/01: Golden Knights-Rangers
08/01: Drive to Phoeniz
14/01: Fly to Vienna
19/01: Fly to St. Petersburg
20/01: KHL game SKA-Amur Khabarovsk
22/01: Fly to Vienna
02/02: Fly to The Hague for Superbowl weekend
04/02: Fly to Vienna
08/03: Fly to Stockholm
09/03: Drive to Goteborg
10/03: SHL game Frolunda-Brynas
11/03: Fly to Vienna

why are you still up LOL

 

[bl02]

He's not a top 6 forward but how does someone who scored 16 goals last season had a good playoffs (yes he did!!!) and will probably score 15-20 goals this year not an nhl player?
You know who is not an nhl player right now? DD and most of the time Carey.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

why are you still up LOL

I need to get some sleep. Have to be at work in 5 hours

 

[2Leetch_94]

Missed the game except for the last couple minutes of the 3rd and OT/SO. That OT was ebola. Going to go fill out my will after witnessing it.

Judging by the posts in the GDT, the OT was similar to the rest of the game. You all are in my prayers.

 

[bl02]

Michael Grabner is gonna score 25-30 goals this season and none on the powerplay and may be in the top 5 in third period goals. All he's worth is a third rounder hahaha.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

You are right.

As I've mentioned many times, I think he's an NHL tweener, so he's more of a 13th forward than anything, doesn't score enough for the top 9, doesn't play good enough defense and not gritty enough to be a fourth liner. That to me equals a 13th forward. I believe he'd be wasting his time in the AHL, as I think he'd end up too good for that league, so 13th forward is the apt description for now. He has time to carve out a top 12 role, but I don't believe he does well in one now. The team also doesn't have 12 NHL top 12 forwards, so thats a different discussion, I did not say he should be in the AHL or anything like that.

@silverfish described my opinion rather well, I'm glad someone else came forward to do it, I know many have the same opinion and have expressed it many times, we all read the forum and see it. The Wagon guy who threw the bait out there knew it and was just looking for a fight. He distorted the opinion of those of us who often criticize Vesey, and tried to completely minimize the amount of people who have that opinion to make it seem like a few crazies, which its not. Its a legit opinion, he's trying to shut down an opinion with nothing other than pure emotion that he likes Vesey. Its a very real point that Vesey doesn't produce much offense or contribute much defensively or in possession.

The guy scored 16 goals last year and had another 5 points in the playoffs including what should have been the game winning goal against Ottawa in crucial game 5 before they blew the lead in the last minute. He is a free asset, bottom 6 player, who will wind up somewhere around 30 points. I don't see the problem here.

 

[Alluckks]

You are right.

As I've mentioned many times, I think he's an NHL tweener, so he's more of a 13th forward than anything, doesn't score enough for the top 9, doesn't play good enough defense and not gritty enough to be a fourth liner. That to me equals a 13th forward. I believe he'd be wasting his time in the AHL, as I think he'd end up too good for that league, so 13th forward is the apt description for now. He has time to carve out a top 12 role, but I don't believe he does well in one now. The team also doesn't have 12 NHL top 12 forwards, so thats a different discussion, I did not say he should be in the AHL or anything like that.

@silverfish described my opinion rather well, I'm glad someone else came forward to do it, I know many have the same opinion and have expressed it many times, we all read the forum and see it. The Wagon guy who threw the bait out there knew it and was just looking for a fight. He distorted the opinion of those of us who often criticize Vesey, and tried to completely minimize the amount of people who have that opinion to make it seem like a few crazies, which its not. Its a legit opinion, he's trying to shut down an opinion with nothing other than pure emotion that he likes Vesey. Its a very real point that Vesey doesn't produce much offense or contribute much defensively or in possession.

9 forwards in top 3 lines, 31 teams, comes out to 279 if you wanna slice it that way.

Vesey had 27 points last year to put him at #217.
He has 8 right now to put him in the #219 to #246 range.

His 5 goals this year put him in the #128 to #165 range, and his 16 goals last year put him in the #138 to #151 range.

Your "doesn't score enough" argument holds little weight, if any at all.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Hank is the reason why this game was even near close...

Can't be more amazing by the stretch hes on right now!