Hearing for Torres on Stoll hit (Thurs 9am PT, NYC; w/DW); out for rest of WCSF

[NWShark*]

Bend at the waist to get lower. Hit through, not up. The argument goes to style of hitting and is best exemplified in football by comparing Jack Tatum and Ronnie Lott, both heavy hitters. Tatum was a headshot artist.

Another post where you display a lack of knowledge. Lott easily had just as many head shots as Tatum. Tatum though had one unfortunate incident and was a raider so of course he must be a dirty head shot artist. What a load of crap.

 

[NWShark*]

This is the crux of the issue...the history of the player throwing the hit shouldn't matter in determining if it's a hit worthy of a suspension or not. It either is or it isn't, period. A player's history should only play a role in the length of a suspension, not if he gets one or not.

A voice of reason.

 

[OrrNumber4]

What depresses me is how quickly hits to the head have become the equivalent of spearing or kneeing someone.

This isn't an auto collision. Players have to keep their head up. If they don't want to play under those circumstances, fine.

I never had a problem with Torres's hit on Michalek, for example. Michalek doesn't keep his head up, Torres recognizes this and punishes him. If Michalek hadn't been watching his pass he'd have easily avoided the hit.

 

[Alwalys]

Just because the shoulder clipped Stoll's shoulder doesn't negate that Torres hit Stoll in the head whether you want to call it with the back of his shoulder or his back, he got Stoll's head on the follow-through. It is textbook blindside from the angle he took. It is the same angle Thornton took on Perron.

Does the textbook really say that the blind side is the direction the player is looking at?

 

[NWShark*]

What depresses me is how quickly hits to the head have become the equivalent of spearing or kneeing someone.

This isn't an auto collision. Players have to keep their head up. If they don't want to play under those circumstances, fine.

I never had a problem with Torres's hit on Michalek, for example. Michalek doesn't keep his head up, Torres recognizes this and punishes him. If Michalek hadn't been watching his pass he'd have easily avoided the hit.

Michaleks head was up, he was looking the other way to follow his pass. If He was looking ahead he would have seen Torres. THat hit was predatory IMO and the principal point of contact was easily definable as the head since Torres didn't even make contact with any other part of Michaleks body. Blatant cheap shot worse that any of the ones he's been suspended for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0KC91Wuz2k

 

[NWShark*]

In all this I find it funny that Shannahan is the decider on these things since he was absolutely one of the dirtiest players in the game when he played....

 

[SJeasy]

I'm sorry but all of your arguments on this subject just sound theoretical to me. I know people hate when I say this but frankly it's true... You have to at least have played a contact sport to be able to make judgments about these situations. You make it sound like people can just adjust their path perfectly by millimeters to attain the perfect attack angle when attempting to hit someone. All this while simultaneously constantly calculating how your target will react and adjust their path to avoid the hit. It's just ridiculous. These guys are going fast and the decision to hit someone is made and how the person being hit factors into the outcome and the repercussions. Regardless of any of that.... In this particular instance there was no reason for a penalty call. The shoulder was targeted and the desired hit was achieved. Any head contact was minimal, incidental and unintentional. Nothing about his path was of the hit was predatory. **** even Fraser said "Stoll was eligible to be hit".

As far as I'm concerned the the league owe Torres and the Sharks an apology for dragging him to NY for this ******** circus.

I have played contact sports and it isn't theoretical. That is not a reasonable objection on your part. I have been around football coaches on both sides, some go with hit up, some with hit through. Yes, it is hard to adjust, but if you read the post without bias you would see how the Canadian hockey world has been willfully ignorant with regard to hits to the head and how they teach players. There needs to be an emphasis on hitting through and an emphasis on the hitter being responsible for point of contact. I do realize that players will make mistakes even with the best of intentions if changes are mad e.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Yes the hearing is based on Torres reputation but lets not pretend for a second that he didn't earn every bit of that reputation. It was a long process that took a lot of work on Torres's part. And lets not pretend to be shocked that Torres isn't getting the benefit of the doubt

 

[NWShark*]

I have played contact sports and it isn't theoretical. That is not a reasonable objection on your part. I have been around football coaches on both sides, some go with hit up, some with hit through. Yes, it is hard to adjust, but if you read the post without bias you would see how the Canadian hockey world has been willfully ignorant with regard to hits to the head and how they teach players. There needs to be an emphasis on hitting through and an emphasis on the hitter being responsible for point of contact. I do realize that players will make mistakes even with the best of intentions if changes are mad e.

I'm sorry , you can say you have but there is no way someone who's played contact sports would say what you did.

By saying people should be suspended as long as the injury you're being insanely unrealistic. That is something a parent who never played says as opposed to to ones who've been in the middle of the chaos.

 

[WantonAbandon]

I have played contact sports and it isn't theoretical. That is not a reasonable objection on your part. I have been around football coaches on both sides, some go with hit up, some with hit through. Yes, it is hard to adjust, but if you read the post without bias you would see how the Canadian hockey world has been willfully ignorant with regard to hits to the head and how they teach players. There needs to be an emphasis on hitting through and an emphasis on the hitter being responsible for point of contact. I do realize that players will make mistakes even with the best of intentions if changes are mad e.

While we are at it how about hockey become a professional sport and end the side show of fighting. You fight its a major and your out of the game period and done

 

[NWShark*]

Yes the hearing is based on Torres reputation but lets not pretend for a second that he didn't earn every bit of that reputation. It was a long process that took a lot of work on Torres's part. And lets not pretend to be shocked that Torres isn't getting the benefit of the doubt

Reputation should NOT matter in determining if the hit was dirty or not. Reputation and suspension history matters ONLY when sentencing. Just like the court system, you prove the guilt then in a separate setting you determine sentencing. They don't go hand in hand.

 

[WantonAbandon]

I'm sorry , you can say you have but there is no way someone who's played contact sports would say what you did.

By saying people should be suspended as long as the injury you're being insanely unrealistic. That is something a parent who never played says as opposed to to ones who've been in the middle of the chaos.

Hockey has serious problems that stem from the culture of the Canadian Junior league that need to be addressed at some point. First step in my opinion would be to end the fighting sideshows

 

[NWShark*]

While we are at it how about hockey become a professional sport and end the side show of fighting. You fight its a major and your out of the game period and done

Oh good grief... Yeah lets turn it into advanced rec league...

The NHL doesn't need people who think like that as fans IMO.

 

[Alwalys]

Yes the hearing is based on Torres reputation but lets not pretend for a second that he didn't earn every bit of that reputation. It was a long process that took a lot of work on Torres's part. And lets not pretend to be shocked that Torres isn't getting the benefit of the doubt

This is beyond benefit of the doubt IMO. It's close to not even being a penalty. I could see a clear penalty that would clearly warrant a look but when it's a look not based on a questionable hit but based on the name .... that is dismaying, if not shocking.

I think most of us felt raffi could lay a dirty one at any point and get the hook, and we'd have had to say, well okay that's the risk. But this is ********.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Michaleks head was up, he was looking the other way to follow his pass. If He was looking ahead he would have seen Torres. THat hit was predatory IMO and the principal point of contact was easily definable as the head since Torres didn't even make contact with any other part of Michaleks body. Blatant cheap shot worse that any of the ones he's been suspended for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0KC91Wuz2k

Bingo.

What do you mean by "predatory"? Aren't all hits predatory in a way?

Firstly, it was a legal hit at the time, so not a cheap shot. Secondly, the play wasn't dead, and Michalek had the puck...he has to know that he is liable to get hit. He wasn't hit from behind or even from the side (and I am ok with hits from the side).

Plus, yeah, Michalek was out for the remainder of that series. But he's back on feet now.

 

[NWShark*]

This is beyond benefit of the doubt IMO. It's close to not even being a penalty. I could see a clear penalty that would clearly warrant a look but when it's a look not based on a questionable hit but based on the name .... that is dismaying, if not shocking.

I think most of us felt raffi could lay a dirty one at any point and get the hook, and we'd have had to say, well okay that's the risk. But this is ********.

Exactly...

 

[WTFetus]

Yes the hearing is based on Torres reputation but lets not pretend for a second that he didn't earn every bit of that reputation. It was a long process that took a lot of work on Torres's part. And lets not pretend to be shocked that Torres isn't getting the benefit of the doubt

And that's a major flaw. Use history to determine how long a suspension should be. Don't use history to determine if it should be reviewed. In my opinion, if a player like Kopitar or Marleau did this hit, it wouldn't even be looked at by the league.

It should be:
1. Watch a hit
2. Label it as illegal
3. Decide on a certain number of games
4. See if that player has any prior history
5. Adjust accordingly

 

[WantonAbandon]

Reputation should matter in determining if the hit was dirty or not. Reputation and suspension history matters when sentencing. Just like the court system, you prove the guilt then in a separate setting you determine sentencing. They don't go hand in hand.

He hit Stoll in the head and Stoll is out for who knows how long. This is a guy who has a history of hitting people in the head. But sure this one time is an accident... excuse Shanaban for not immediately buying it and giving Torres the benefit of the doubt. My teal glasses can't make me feel any empathy for Torres who has no one to blame but himself or Doug Wilson who had to have anticipated the possibility.

 

[WantonAbandon]

And that's a major flaw. Use history to determine how long a suspension should be. Don't use history to determine if it should be reviewed. In my opinion, if a player like Kopitar or Marleau did this hit, it wouldn't even be looked at by the league.

It should be:
1. Watch a hit
2. Label it as illegal
3. Decide on a certain number of games
4. See if that player has any prior history
5. Adjust accordingly

You can't just live in the present that isn't how life works. If St Louis or Datsyuk did this then yeah they probably would be given the benefit of the doubt, but Torres has had too many "accidents" in his career. As a result he has been called in for a hearing.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

This is beyond benefit of the doubt IMO. It's close to not even being a penalty. I could see a clear penalty that would clearly warrant a look but when it's a look not based on a questionable hit but based on the name .... that is dismaying, if not shocking.

I think most of us felt raffi could lay a dirty one at any point and get the hook, and we'd have had to say, well okay that's the risk. But this is ********.

Agreed.

 

[Alwalys]

You can't just live in the present that isn't how life works. If St Louis or Datsyuk did this then yeah they probably would be given the benefit of the doubt, but Torres has had too many "accidents" in his career. As a result he has been called in for a hearing.

It's not like those other hits weren't clearly headshots. This is clearly NOT a headshot.

 

[WTFetus]

You can't just live in the present that isn't how life works.

That's not living in the present. It's not letting your personal biases get in the way.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

He hit Stoll in the head and Stoll is out for who knows how long. This is a guy who has a history of hitting people in the head. But sure this one time is an accident... excuse Shanaban for not immediately buying it and giving Torres the benefit of the doubt. My teal glasses can't make me feel any empathy for Torres who has no one to blame but himself or Doug Wilson who had to have anticipated the possibility.

He didn't target his head though....

 

[Sharksfan83]

Penalty and a fine would be sufficient in this case.

 

[sharklife25]

While we are at it how about hockey become a professional sport and end the side show of fighting. You fight its a major and your out of the game period and done

This is one of the most ridiculous and illogical post I've ever read.

Without fighting people take runs at players like Thornton, Marleau and Couture with no abandon because they don't have to answer for it...

Fighting protects players from cheap shots.....

But yeah, let's take it out of the game....