Has your opinion of Jim Benning changed?

[pucksakes666]

He is similar to brian burke great trades shit at drafting and ok at signing

 

[FreeMcdavid]

You're not assessing Benning at his job duties. You're just posting results based on system that inevitably awards failure through the draft. Benning has the worst record of any GM over the last few years. Why not post those results and facts? Because they aren't convenient for your warped narrative. I've provided logic and reasoning for my assessment, you have done nothing to challenge that.

Benning was voted the worst GM of all time for the Canucks for a reason.

So he gets no credit for building his team via the draft because the system awards failure eventhough the results are The Canucks are in 1st place with a very bright young core?

sorry bruh, cant have a decent conversation with you.

i do respect that you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

He is similar to brian burke great trades **** at drafting and ok at signing

hmmm dont think that describes Benning at all. Poop at drafting? Great Trades?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Yes. “Objectively” I cannot help but laugh. C grade for Canucks draft. Super objective! Really, it’s average for teams to have 3 straight years of Calder contenders. Its definitely not unprecedented!! It’s average for teams to get a first line winger at 23. Average drafting to get a first line centre and potential #1D defenseman in B2B years. The only “failure” is Juolevi. And yet, he can still be a player. He’s 21. Actually currently on his best stretch of hockey.

As per usual, the posters claiming to be objective are anything but. Spare me. There’s some glaring bad moves. Glaring sidegrades. Glaring huge wins.

But man Benning is so bad! He traded a third for Pedan! That just weighs this team down. That’s about the crux of it. Many irrelevant moves brought up endlessly as if it had some tangible impact. Oh no not that 4th to 5th round draft pick downgrade, those picks are just so valuable! Forget our first line centre he drafted, that’s just average for #5 overalls at 21 years of age!!

I view Juolevi and Virtanen as the main failures (Virtanen looks better now, but I still take Nylander/Ehlers easily ahead of him, and this was true at the time of the draft).

As a consistent bottom-feeding team from 2015 - 2019, we really haven't hit on many later round picks. Gaudette is really the only one (I consider Demko an early-ish pick and no one knows what will become of Tryamkin; the rest are just prospects with little professional experience).

Hughes was the consensus pick on where we picked him. He was the right pick, not a good/bad pick. Just because you do something the way you're supposed to after the league rewards your failure, doesn't make it a good move.

Just to clarify - a letter grade of "C" means like 60%. A+ would mean hitting on our high picks and having later round picks contribute more (Winnipeg is a team that has done very well with their high picks).

As for the draft picks part - you're missing the overall point that Benning's asset management and trading/negotiating has been brutally terrible, and this is a huge aspect of rebuilding a team.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

So he gets no credit for building his team via the draft because the system awards failure eventhough the results are The Canucks are in 1st place with a very bright young core?

sorry bruh, cant have a decent conversation with you.

i do respect that you are entitled to your opinion.

I gave him credit where credit is due. See the "good" parts of my report card. I have given him credit for the Boeser/Pettersson draft picks, those were huge. Still doesn't mean we automatically forget all of the crap that he has done to set back the team.

The damage control here is bewildering. Too many Rogers' Arena accounts on here trying to play up the 1st in the division card while they can.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I still think he should be bound and gagged until all the FA signings are done.

 

[Raistlin]

I hated Benning as much as anyone else, I still think he should be fired at the end of the year if we miss the playoffs. But to deny that he hasn't learnt from the past 5 years is ridiculous. You are not anthology writers, it doesnt matter now how much of a loser he was 3 years ago, he got better, you got to give him that, we are where we are right now because he made good moves in his recent transactions. The tank thread has morphed from "trying to build a stanley cup winner" thread to a "fire benning no matter what" thread...

He is no longer the worst GM in the league, he has rose to middle of pack in my opinion.

 

[Strangelove]

You're just posting results based on system that inevitably awards failure through the draft.

So if the Canuck rebuild goes well, it's "the system" that deserves all the credit, not the GM.

*turns to the audience*

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I implore you.

Benning was voted the worst GM of all time for the Canucks for a reason.

Voted the worst GM of all time... on HFCanucks!

On the other Canuck boards he'd likely... right now... be voted Top 3 all-time...

 

[Strangelove]

This is a serious question - are you somehow related or connected to Benning?

This question gets asked regularly at HFCanucks of anyone who says anything good about Benning.

It was asked of me over there and I've been around Canuck boards forever...

Too many Rogers' Arena accounts on here trying to play up the 1st in the division card while they can.

See wot I mean...

 

[FreeMcdavid]

I gave him credit where credit is due. See the "good" parts of my report card. I have given him credit for the Boeser/Pettersson draft picks, those were huge. Still doesn't mean we automatically forget all of the crap that he has done to set back the team.

The damage control here is bewildering. Too many Rogers' Arena accounts on here trying to play up the 1st in the division card while they can.

I guess i will keep conversing with you,

You cant see the difference in Value of being able to get a Pettersson , Boeser, Hughes, Miller VS his bad moves of trading Mccann for Gudbranson or trading away 3rd rnd draft picks?

Do you think all those are equal value?

Back to Back Calder Winners hasnt been done since 1966! We're in the conversation for that!

Getting a Franchise 1C and 1D is litterally not ordinary. Canucks have never ever had a 1D like Hughes or even a 1C with this much potential and promise as EP40 ( no offence to Linden)

 

[FreeMcdavid]

I hated Benning as much as anyone else, I still think he should be fired at the end of the year if we miss the playoffs. But to deny that he has learnt from the past 5 years is ridiculous. You are not anthology writers, it doesnt matter now how much of a loser he was 3 years ago, he got better, you got to give him that, we are where we are right now because he made good moves in his recent transactions. The tank thread has morphed from "trying to build a stanley cup winner" thread to a "fire benning no matter what" thread...

He is no longer the worst GM in the league, he has rose to middle of pack in my opinion.

I appreciate posters like this.

I was on same boat. Anti-Benning when he deserved it. Been blown away with how the he turned it around recently. If im going to crucify him as much as i did he deserves my praise just as much for the turnaround.

 

[dKs89]

I hated Benning as much as anyone else, I still think he should be fired at the end of the year if we miss the playoffs. But to deny that he has learnt from the past 5 years is ridiculous. You are not anthology writers, it doesnt matter now how much of a loser he was 3 years ago, he got better, you got to give him that, we are where we are right now because he made good moves in his recent transactions. The tank thread has morphed from "trying to build a stanley cup winner" thread to a "fire benning no matter what" thread...

He is no longer the worst GM in the league, he has rose to middle of pack in my opinion.

The best bit of it all, so many pro tank thread contributors continually say they are objective and want objective discussions. The same posters who continually attribute recent draft success to the scouts (the guys Benning has hired and kept, hilariously) and as “obvious picks.” The same ones who continuously ignore the current state of this team. Continually say “oh but...Juolevi!!” anytime people speak about a positive transaction.

It’s so tiring. Gets all the blame and none of the credit from all the same usual suspects.

He deserves criticism for some of the moves. Some have been bad. Some have been entirely irrelevant. Yet those bad and irrelevant moves are endlessly brought up. The good he has done hugely outweighs the bad in my opinion. For Christ sakes he’s drafted a first line centre, a defenseman who most unequivocally agree either is already or will be their franchise #1D, a first ling winger. All without a top 3 pick. And somehow that drafting is a C grade. Purely average to 50. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

The best bit of it all, so many pro tank thread contributors continually say they are objective and want objective discussions. The same posters who continually attribute recent draft success to the scouts (the guys Benning has hired and kept, hilariously) and as “obvious picks.” The same ones who continuously ignore the current state of this team. Continually say “oh but...Juolevi!!” anytime people speak about a positive transaction.

It’s so tiring. Gets all the blame and none of the credit from all the same usual suspects.

He deserves criticism for some of the moves. Some have been bad. Some have been entirely irrelevant. Yet those bad and irrelevant moves are endlessly brought up. The good he has done hugely outweighs the bad in my opinion. For Christ sakes he’s drafted a first line centre, a defenseman who most unequivocally agree either is already or will be their franchise #1D, a first ling winger. All without a top 3 pick.

Its a really weird dynamic to see that people have a hard time expressing that their opinions have changed or worse they were wrong... its almost like once you form an opinion, people feel bound to stick by it for eternity in fear of being seen as a flip flopper when in reality, things change all the time. A bad Gm can become good and Good GM can become bad. Nobody is even suggesting that Benning is a top 10 GM in the league but people are hell bent to moves he made 3-5 years ago and to get him fired. Crazzzzy world we live in

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I guess i will keep conversing with you,

You cant see the difference in Value of being able to get a Pettersson , Boeser, Hughes, Miller VS his bad moves of trading Mccann for Gudbranson or trading away 3rd rnd draft picks?

Do you think all those are equal value?

Back to Back Calder Winners hasnt been done since 1966! We're in the conversation for that!

Getting a Franchise 1C and 1D is litterally not ordinary. Canucks have never ever had a 1D like Hughes or even a 1C with this much potential and promise as EP40 ( no offence to Linden)

Thank you for blessing me with your time and indulging in this debate (you know, the one that you created when you made this thread), I am so fortunate to be able to converse with you my lord!

You're trying to pigeonhole a narrow argument that makes Benning look good, which lacks any nuance or context.

All you need to do is look at the assets brought in and the assets sent out - almost every example is poor asset management (see my post above that outlines pretty much every transaction that Benning has made, so I won't re-post it here again).

Pettersson, Boeser, and Hughes were all draft picks that we only received because we were so bad. The alternative to Boeser was Konecny, who I'd be just as happy with tbh, so it's not like that pick was some crazy home run. Hughes was a consensus pick. Pettersson is the only home run pick (who many of our scouts liked, so it's hard to chalk this one up to Benning alone).

Getting franchise players through the draft when you have one of the worst records in the league over a 4 year period is not exactly surprising or impressive. Where are all of our players from the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th/etc. round picks over the last 6 years? Demko and Gaudette. That's it.

 

[M2Beezy]

Who?

Jim Benning is the GM of the Vancouver Canucks

 

[4Twenty]

I just don't get why people are trying to dunk on others because the Canucks have a record that has them in the playoffs after 50 ish games, they were in the playoffs on this date last year too, so was Montreal.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Thank you for blessing me with your time and indulging in this debate (you know, the one that you created when you made this thread), I am so fortunate to be able to converse with you my lord!

You're trying to pigeonhole a narrow argument that makes Benning look good, which lacks any nuance or context.

All you need to do is look at the assets brought in and the assets sent out - almost every example is poor asset management (see my post above that outlines pretty much every transaction that Benning has made, so I won't re-post it here again).

Pettersson, Boeser, and Hughes were all draft picks that we only received because we were so bad. The alternative to Boeser was Konecny, who I'd be just as happy with tbh, so it's not like that pick was some crazy home run. Hughes was a consensus pick. Pettersson is the only home run pick (who many of our scouts liked, so it's hard to chalk this one up to Benning alone).

Getting franchise players through the draft when you have one of the worst records in the league over a 4 year period is not exactly surprising or impressive. Where are all of our players from the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th/etc. round picks over the last 6 years? Demko and Gaudette. That's it.

I changed my mind, im done conversing afterall. My apologies.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I don’t know how much credit to give him for the Miller trade because I’ve always thought you should be able to judge a trade right when it happens. Did he think he was getting a 47-point forward?

It's not at all ridiculous to say he didn't and thought Miller could be more. Maybe even that they knew he would be a better fit with them than he was in New York or Tampa. Even the assumption that it was still an overpay because of Tampa's cap situation ignores a lot of other possibilities.

The problem with this logic is that it assumes fans are good judges and they really aren't. More than anything seems to be some guys just being unable to admit they were wrong initially.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I changed my mind, im done conversing afterall. My apologies.

Konecny is just as valuable as Boeser is right now (he actually has a higher PPG).

Hughes was the consensus pick based on draft rankings (I just averaged them the other day, he was the average 6.8 overall pick according to about ~15 experts).

I gave credit for Pettersson, but there are multiple news reports about how many of our scouts liked him (Delorme and Gradin come to mind).

But I understand why you'd throw in the towel after realizing the facts don't support your narrative

 

[nowhereman]

I'd like to apologize to the main board, on behalf of all Canucks fans, that you've now had to experience a small taste of HFBoards Canucks. It really is THAT bad.

 

[voxel]

He's terrible at signings, decent at trades, and outstanding at drafting. Thats basically it.

He's not good a drafting D. Other than Hughes... basically no NHL regulars.

 

[Love]

An NHL GM has more to do than just being good at drafting and trading. End of the day, you look at the end product. I'm not sold of Vancouver being built to be a contender nor am I convinced they have the right pieces to become one. Their rebuild was too half efforted and it sucks for Canuck fans because they have the right pieces in some places (down the middle, Hughes) but not enough of them (where's their elite winger?) to make noise.

For that reason, no I'm not convinced. I'm convinced he got lucky not good.

The bolded is confusing to me. It’s basically universally accepted in the hockey world that the most important areas to build around and try to strengthen in a rebuild is down the middle and on the blue line. Then you concede that the Canucks look great down the middle with Pettersson and Horvat and that they finally have a stud young defenceman in Hughes.

It’s also confusing that you mention wingers as a weakness. A team doesn’t need an elite winger to win a cup and there’s numerous examples of that. Regardless, JT Miller and Brock Boeser are outstanding wingers weather they’re considered “elite” or not. Tanner Pearson is a second line winger and Jake Virtanen looks like he’s become one now too.

I think if anything the weakness of this team going forward is not wingers but defence. After Hughes there’s a lot of question marks going forward.

 

[Bizzare]

Thank you for blessing me with your time and indulging in this debate (you know, the one that you created when you made this thread), I am so fortunate to be able to converse with you my lord!

You're trying to pigeonhole a narrow argument that makes Benning look good, which lacks any nuance or context.

All you need to do is look at the assets brought in and the assets sent out - almost every example is poor asset management (see my post above that outlines pretty much every transaction that Benning has made, so I won't re-post it here again).

Pettersson, Boeser, and Hughes were all draft picks that we only received because we were so bad. The alternative to Boeser was Konecny, who I'd be just as happy with tbh, so it's not like that pick was some crazy home run. Hughes was a consensus pick. Pettersson is the only home run pick (who many of our scouts liked, so it's hard to chalk this one up to Benning alone).

Getting franchise players through the draft when you have one of the worst records in the league over a 4 year period is not exactly surprising or impressive. Where are all of our players from the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th/etc. round picks over the last 6 years? Demko and Gaudette. That's it.

Do you think Benning is the only one involved in conversations around signing players?

 

[mc1laren]

They just recently signed Beagle, Rouselle, Myers to huge contracts for no reason.

LOL for no reason? Are you watching hockey or Socballfootockey

All three are on reasonable contracts given they were signed in free agency when competing teams drive up prices and you have to pony up to land your guy. I think all three have lived up to the contracts with Roussel surprising everyone with his production last year. You cant underestimate leadership, experience, and other intangibles that these 3 players bring to the team. Without vets you look like Edmonton without McDavid.

 

[NHL1995]

I have a friend who is from Vancouver.

He hates Benning saying he should not have signed Myers and Ferland this year especially considering he has to resign their #1 goalie (Markstrom) and top defensive defensemen (Chris Tanev) at the end of this year.

Also a quick look at Vancouver's cap situation, and it looks pretty grim.

• They still have Petterson and Hughes on entry level deals. When they re-sign in two years, they will have a huge cap hit
• They have Ericksons awful 6 mill deal for 2 more years after this,
• They have Myers at 6mill per year for 4 more years after this (He sucks defensively)
• they have Luongo's 3 mill cap recapture for 2 more years after this one, (Not really Bennings fault but it should at least force him to be more careful in the future)
• they have Baerchi's 2.2 mill deal (He's in the minors and hasn't been traded),
• they have Ferland 3.5 mill deal for 3 more years after this one, (He's barely played this season as he's had concussion problems)
• They have Sutter at 4.3 mill deal (Sutter's been consistently injured so can't really help)

That's 25 million in wasted cap. (22 mill if you take away the Luongo cap recapture).

They only have $30,000 of cap-space as of this post and that's with LTIR. And this is before they re-sign Petterson and Hughes.

What a fricken mess. Benning has no one to blame but himself for this.