Has Germany and Switzerland surpassed Slovakia?

[Eye of Ra]

As we all know, Germany and Swiss are better than ever while Slovakia is worse than ever. Would you guys say that Germany and the swiss have surpassed Slovakia or is Slovakia still nr 7 in the world?

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[Speyer]

Germany and Switzerland have better best on best teams than Slovakia right know. Slovakia on the other hand has much better prospects yet to be drafted than the other two nations and a few good young players that already drafted as well. So after the top six nations I don't really see any significant separation if you are looking beyond the momentary snapshot of the A teams. Overall I think Swizterland has the strongest team right now but has the weakest crops of players born in the 00's. The 7th spot is pretty much up for grabs in the future depending on how each countrys young players will develop but I doubt any nation will separate itsfelf long term though.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Germany and Switzerland have better best on best teams than Slovakia right know. Slovakia on the other hand has much better prospects yet to be drafted than the other two nations and a few good young players that already drafted as well. So after the top six nations I don't really see any significant separation if you are looking beyond the momentary snapshot of the A teams. Overall I think Swizterland has the strongest team right now but has the weakest crops of players born in the 00's. The 7th spot is pretty much up for grabs in the future depending on how each countrys young players will develop but I doubt any nation will separate itsfelf long term though.

if olympics is without nhlers, i would say slovakia is the strongest of the 3.

 

[Elvs]

Right now I'd say Switzerland is clearly the best of the three, on paper, in a best on best tournament.

Germany is arguably slightly ahead of Slovakia, but only because of Draisaitl. Then they of course have much better prospects already drafted as well.

On the other hand, Slovakia easily has the best prospect pools coming up in 2022 and 2023, and so they should close the gap and possibly overtake the #7 rank again moving forward.

 

[Czechboy]

It's a 3 way tie.

Swiss have a great crew but no NHL goalie and several drafts without much to show for it. A Norris level Dman and some gamebreakers for sure!

Germans have a weak base but some exceptional drafts with some tippy top players coming out and a Vezina goalie.

Slovaks are definitely down but still have a lot of very good players and some damn good prospects coming. They have NHL D and Goaltending which is good.

Kahun is now gone from NHL. Chara and Sekera are near the end. It's a shame Swiss don't have an NHL goalie.

 

[Namejs]

As we all know, Germany and Swiss are better than ever while Slovakia is worse than ever. Would you guys say that Germany and the swiss have surpassed Slovakia or is Slovakia still nr 7 in the world?

Switzerland surpassed Slovakia years ago, Germany has done so over the last 5 years as well. I'd say both are still on an upwards trend and are closing in on Czech Rep.

Slovakia is a clear cut #9 and is basically a slightly deeper Latvia/Denmark, but their hockey system has better fundamentals and their unfortunes are in part related to management rather than a lack of talent.

Denmark had a lucky crop of forwards, which is aging and things will return to normal once they retire. Latvia has been improving over the last 5 years, but is about to plateau. But since the other natural rivals in Norway and Belarus are on a downwards trend, their position as #10-#11 is likely to remain unchallenged.

 

[Namejs]

It's a 3 way tie.

Swiss have a great crew but no NHL goalie and several drafts without much to show for it. A Norris level Dman and some gamebreakers for sure!

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Germans have a weak base but some exceptional drafts with some tippy top players coming out and a Vezina goalie.

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Slovaks are definitely down but still have a lot of very good players and some damn good prospects coming. They have NHL D and Goaltending which is good.

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Kahun is now gone from NHL. Chara and Sekera are near the end. It's a shame Swiss don't have an NHL goalie.

Slovakia has 3 full time NHL players and a 36 yo goalie once you remove Chara and Sekera from the equation.

There is no way this is a 3-way-tie, especially considering how bad the Slovakian league has become relative to NL and DEL.

 

[Urbanskog]

I haven't considered Slovakia to be ahead of Switzerland for a good number of years. Germany overtook Slovakia more recently but there's no doubt in my mind that both are presently ahead of Slovakia.

 

[kudla]

Germany obviously has the better league, but on best-on-best, the only difference is Draisaitl.
Slovakia also beats Germany troughout junior categories pretty regularly

 

[Eye of Ra]

Germany and Switzerland can only dream of ever having this...

Marián Gáborík - Pavol Demitra - Marián Hossa
Miroslav Šatan - Jozef Stümpel - Peter Bondra
Richard Zedník - Michal Handzuš - Ladislav Nagy
Marek Svatos - Ľuboš Bartečko - Vladimir Orszagh

Zdeno Chára - Andrej Meszároš
Martin Štrbák - Ľubomír Višňovský
Radoslav Suchý - Jaroslav Obsut

Peter Budaj
Jaroslav Halak

 

[Urbanskog]

Germany and Switzerland can only dream of ever having this...

Marián Gáborík - Pavol Demitra - Marián Hossa
Miroslav Šatan - Jozef Stümpel - Peter Bondra
Richard Zedník - Michal Handzuš - Ladislav Nagy
Marek Svatos - Ľuboš Bartečko - Vladimir Orszagh

Zdeno Chára - Andrej Meszároš
Martin Štrbák - Ľubomír Višňovský
Radoslav Suchý - Jaroslav Obsut

Peter Budaj
Jaroslav Halak

I mean, so can Slovakia.

 

[Antiillafire]

Slovakia has 3 full time NHL players and a 36 yo goalie once you remove Chara and Sekera from the equation.

There is no way this is a 3-way-tie, especially considering how bad the Slovakian league has become relative to NL and DEL.

A Slovak team full of players from the Slovak league just beat a german team full of their best DEL players twice I believe in a pretty controlling fashion just a few months ago. Not as big as you may think.

 

[Eye of Ra]

A Slovak team full of players from the Slovak league just beat a german team full of their best DEL players twice I believe in a pretty controlling fashion just a few months ago. Not as big as you may think.

DEL have lots of good foreign players

 

[Albatros]

Slovakia also lost to Latvia, I guess that makes their league one of the best in Europe.

 

[Czechboy]

Slovakia has 3 full time NHL players and a 36 yo goalie once you remove Chara and Sekera from the equation.

There is no way this is a 3-way-tie, especially considering how bad the Slovakian league has become relative to NL and DEL.

Why are we removing 2 of their players? Sekera will be in the NHL this season and I'd be shocked if Chara wasn't as well. The 36 year old goalie is Halak... good goalie! Better than what the Swiss have. Grubauer is better but he's better than your backup.

We do have a best on best Olympics coming up... maybe we'll see then.

I honestly think of Slovakia Germany had a best of 7 that it'd be to game 7.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Germany and Switzerland have better best on best teams than Slovakia right know. Slovakia on the other hand has much better prospects yet to be drafted than the other two nations and a few good young players that already drafted as well. So after the top six nations I don't really see any significant separation if you are looking beyond the momentary snapshot of the A teams. Overall I think Swizterland has the strongest team right now but has the weakest crops of players born in the 00's. The 7th spot is pretty much up for grabs in the future depending on how each countrys young players will develop but I doubt any nation will separate itsfelf long term though.

Pretty much this.

 

[Antiillafire]

Slovakia also lost to Latvia, I guess that makes their league one of the best in Europe.

I never said that. I said that the Slovak league isn’t some poor quality league where the DEL will crush it in quality. Yes the DEL is better by quite a margin but the gap isn’t behemoth. Didn’t Latvia just lose to Norway and scrape by Italy? So maybe @Namejs is wrong… Norway is right on your tail

 

[Elvs]

Slovakia has 3 full time NHL players and a 36 yo goalie once you remove Chara and Sekera from the equation.

There is no way this is a 3-way-tie, especially considering how bad the Slovakian league has become relative to NL and DEL.

The state of the Slovak league is irrelevant if we're comparing these nations in a best on best tournament. The Slovak league has never been strong, yet they were clearly in the top 7 between 10-20 years ago.

Outside of the NHL, Slovakia have their best players spread out over the KHL, SHL, Liiga, NL, Czech Extraliga and AHL. It's like discrediting Latvia's national team while leaving out all of their KHL players and saying how the Latvian league is weak.

 

[Eye of Ra]

latvian league is weaker than slovakian league.

 

[Namejs]

Why are we removing 2 of their players? Sekera will be in the NHL this season and I'd be shocked if Chara wasn't as well. The 36 year old goalie is Halak... good goalie! Better than what the Swiss have. Grubauer is better but he's better than your backup.

We do have a best on best Olympics coming up... maybe we'll see then.

I honestly think of Slovakia Germany had a best of 7 that it'd be to game 7.

Because we're looking at macro trends and projecting things.

 

[Namejs]

latvian league is weaker than slovakian league.

The Latvian league is probably barely better than the Slovakian 2nd division

Since when are we discussing the Latvian league?

 

[Namejs]

The state of the Slovak league is irrelevant if we're comparing these nations in a best on best tournament. The Slovak league has never been strong, yet they were clearly in the top 7 between 10-20 years ago.

Outside of the NHL, Slovakia have their best players spread out over the KHL, SHL, Liiga, NL, Czech Extraliga and AHL. It's like discrediting Latvia's national team while leaving out all of their KHL players and saying how the Latvian league is weak.

That's the entire point - you just described Latvia.

In no way, shape or form anyone with a sound mind would argue that Latvia is the 7th best team in the world, it isn't. Same as Slovakia.

Half of the Swiss/German teams are based on NHL players/prospects.

 

[Elvs]

Just for fun, I compared the draft results for Germany, Switzerland, Czech Republic and Slovakia in the last ten and five years.

Last ten years:

Nation	Total	1st round	2nd round	3rd round
GER	13	5	1	1
SUI	26	5	3	2
CZE	76	10	8	8
SVK	21	1	2	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Last five years:

Nation	Total	1st round	2nd round	3rd round
GER	10	4	1	1
SUI	11	1	1	0
CZE	43	4	1	7
SVK	11	0	1	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

It shows how far ahead the Czech Republic still is over the others. Sure, you could look at Germany in the last five years and point out how 40% of their draftees are selected in the 1st round. But when you're averaging two draftees per year, you're not gonna be pumping out 1st or 2nd round talent with any consistancy.

And here are the highest ranked prospects for the 2022 draft (as per Draft Prospects Hockey):

Simon Nemec (D) - #4

Juraj Slafkovsky (F) - #5

David Jiricek (D) - #8

Filip Mesar (F) - #22

Julian Lutz (F) - #61

Lian Bischel (D) - #64

I don't think any good 2023 rankings are avialable yet, but Eliteprospects has Dalibor Dvorsky (Slovakia) listed as one of eight "top prospects" right now.

 

[Elvs]

That's the entire point - you just described Latvia.

In no way, shape or form anyone with a sound mind would argue that Latvia is the 7th best team in the world, it isn't. Same as Slovakia.

Half of the Swiss/German teams are based on NHL players/prospects.

Well, first of all you need to distinct what you mean when you're talking about "7th best". Are you talking about currently? Future? Best on best teams? The overall state of respective hockey programs? Because you can't be talking about best on best rosters, and at the same time leave out Sekera/Chara and bring up the domestic league levels.

I'm by no means saying that Slovakia is currently ahead of Germany and Switzerland. But one cannot talk about rosters, leave out Sekera and Chara, point out how only a few others are regular NHL'ers, when Germany has Seider, Holzer and virtally no one else on their defense. There's about ten Slovak defensemen who are better than Germany's third best.

The only thing that clearly puts Germany ahed of Slovakia is Draisaitl. If we are talking about future, then of course Stutzle and Seider are looking like studs. But in a couple of years we could be talking about Nemec, Slafkovsky and Dvorsky in the same manner.

 

[Namejs]

Well, first of all you need to distinct what you mean when you're talking about "7th best". Are you talking about currently? Future? Best on best teams? The overall state of respective hockey programs? Because you can't be talking about best on best rosters, and at the same time leave out Sekera/Chara and bring up the domestic league levels.

I'm by no means saying that Slovakia is currently ahead of Germany and Switzerland. But one cannot leave out Sekera and Chara, and point out how only a few others are regular NHL'ers, when Germany has Seider, Holzer and no one else on their defense. There's about ten Slovak defensemen who are better than Germany's third best.

Well, not to sound condescending, but if I'm writing about the past, the present and the future, it's a bit of a no-brainer. When I'm removing older players, I'm obviously talking about the future. And the future is not the present or the past.

Hope this clears things up.

Oh, and the topic of this discussion is how good each national team is.

The quality of the domestic league provides depth and is indicative of the breadth and depth of your overall talent pool, with certain caveats. This is a suppporting side-argument, which is not really central in this discussion and we could as well ignore it.