Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
It's a fast game and I don't blame refs for not seeing it all the time.
The league should really ratchet up fines for it though.
The league should really ratchet up fines for it though.
Has Diving Become A Normalized Part of the Game
- Thread starter The Professional
- Start date
- Mar 4, 2004
- 27,895
- 32,294
This isn't about Stutzle but it's ridiculous how there can be a player that fans of even their own team agree dives, it's known around the league, it's known to players, but the NHL doesn't hand out any fines for that player.
Yet they'll fine some random player and you see a replay and it's not even that bad.
Agreed. That's the thing, diving makes the refs job that much harder.
So for people who think officiating in the NHL is awful, diving by the players is part of the problem.
HugeInTheShire
You may not like me but, I'm Huge in the Shire
Diving has always been a part of hockey, it's just more socially acceptable now, if a player back then dove his own teammates would give his shit for it, now they laugh and joke about it.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
The repercussion is that you’ve shown up the refs and they don’t give you any benefit of the doubt anymore.
The number of missed calls with respect to Stutzle, as the name everyone keeps bringing up, is noticeable.
There is a price that is paid eventually, even if not immediate.
Mattilaus
Registered User
I don't think there is more diving, but I do think there is more embellishment. Players aren't faking getting hit with a stick or getting a stick caught up in their skates more often than they used to. However when they do get hit or get a stick in the skates they definitely put on more of a performance. A player hit with a stick now goes flying backwards to make sure the ref sees. A player whose skates get stuck on a stick, jumps through the air to make it known they were tripped. I think this is the result of the game management style of officiating. Too many players have been tripped or high sticked but don't get a call because their team got the last penalty or because they are up by a goal with 5 minutes left in the game. So now the players embellish to try and create an environment where the refs HAVE to make the call because its too obvious to ignore.
Gil Gunderson
Registered User
Avsfan1921
Registered User
- Oct 5, 2019
- 1,132
- 3,263
I don’t think it’s any worse, it’s always been an issue. I don’t know if they do but I wish they’d review every penalty. That way they can hopefully have more accountability for both the refs and the players. If a player is blatantly embellishing, an automatic one game suspension on the first instance would be nice, escalating from there on repeats. Fines just aren’t big enough to be a deterrent imo.
RipsADrive
Registered User
I think the refs do a decent job with diving itself. I've been complaining about divers since I started watching hockey, but I don't feel like it's increasing.
I do agree with Keefe though that it shouldn't benefit the players to look like they're as hurt as possible after getting hit. Laying on the ice and heading down the tunnel only to immediately come back as soon as the major is called is a bad for the game and there is currently way to disincentivize doing it.
I do agree with Keefe though that it shouldn't benefit the players to look like they're as hurt as possible after getting hit. Laying on the ice and heading down the tunnel only to immediately come back as soon as the major is called is a bad for the game and there is currently way to disincentivize doing it.
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PunchImlach is Alive
Registered User
Every sport will always evolve as players look to gain an advantage along the margins of play. If hockey has an issue that is turning people off to the sport or prevents itself from gaining new fans, it's hardly because of diving.
Crow
Registered User
- May 19, 2014
- 3,960
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I don’t think mine does. I certainly can’t name one who dives/embellishes regularly. And I say that as someone who likes the sens more than about 29 other teams.
ClydeLee
Registered User
- Mar 23, 2012
- 11,666
- 6,129
I think people are just complaining and calling things diving more that aren't. Like that game Torts conplained about the opponent diving yet their calls weren't dives... 1 shouldn't of been a penalty but I don't think the player dove or embellished, he lost an edge. And yet Michkov did actually dive that game.
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
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Crow
Registered User
- May 19, 2014
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- 4,579
Well that’s good but another point entirely. Maybe his reputation will change. It took many years for Crosby to be thought of as not a whiny embellisher after what he did when he entered the league.
McDavid often got accused of embellishing.
So refs called nothing on him. Like 200th in penalties drawn while being hooked and held all game. There was a massive media pushback on how he nevet drew calls despite being clearly interfered with and hooked and held.
McDavid just took a page out of Crosby's book and incorperated the dirtiness into his own game.
Half the time he beats a defender wide, he will grab their stick and blow past them. He interferes nonstop and hooks and trips while deking them. Similar to how Peter Forsberg did it.
Strangely, this gets more respect from neutral fans.
The officials refuse to call anything unless someone is flopping around on the ice like a fish, so they incentivize it. Playing "through" abuse is no longer good enough. Fix that, and diving will decrease substantially.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
It will take awhile, I know that, the fans know that, I think even Stutzle knows that.
In his first few seasons, a missed call would result in a lot of staring down the ref as play continued and jawing at them when he’d get off the ice.
I think he’s been better at swallowing his emotions and just getting on with his business.
He’s also gotten a lot stronger, initiates physical play himself, and I think that helps a bit as well.
We had Antoine Vermette for quite a while and he was often accused of being a diver when really he was like Bambi on skates.
He could skate like the wind but would slip and fall a great deal, even in the absence of contact or obstruction.
He just didn’t have very good balance for such a fast skater.
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I remember that Shea Weber video of him delivering lik 7-8 cross-Checks into the back of an opposing player wanting position in the slot.
The only thing said about it, was that Shea Weber was a warrior who guarded that space. Not that he should have received like 8 penalties.
The rules are ambiguous as f***, and apparently cross checking in the slot is 'legal' for Shea Webers.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
That’s the problem with soccer.
They don’t call anything unless you fall down so it incentivizes falling at the slightest contact.
Crow
Registered User
- May 19, 2014
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Yeah the game was pretty ridiculous back then (not that it was very long ago). No one was getting a call either way so you had to battle back and stay on your feet. Weber would have had to be a different player if he played in a league that enforces the rules as they do now. Cross checking was pretty much his #1 weapon.
Ask the Florida panthers
Ha yes, we dove our way to the Cup. I thought it was we “no state taxed” our way to it. I’m struggling with all the different ways people are saying the boys are really f***ing good and they just don’t like it.
Score8
Registered User
- Apr 6, 2017
- 3,967
- 5,559
I think this is a bigger underlying issue: if officials don’t call penalties if players fight through the infraction, players get conditioned to realize they have to go down when a player commits a penalty against them.
If you want to stop embellishment, it has to come with referees calling penalties when players don’t go down. And that will result in complaints about “ticky-tack” soft penalties.
