Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?

[CallMeShaft]

What are you talking about?

Goals are scored from faceoffs... its not just "a problem" its a major problem, you got scored 2 goals within a few seconds from 2 lost faceoffs by Bedard. You got 1 guy on your team who's causing you to play catch up hockey.

His defensive coverage is terrible, do you not see the giant flaws in his game?

+/- is shit? ok buddy, good one.

Faceoffs are an issue, sure. They are also correctable overtime. Experience helps there.

Plus/minus is a f***ing joke stat that doesn't take into account a number of different factors. I'm not going to list everything wrong with plus/minus here. Because I don't have to. This is a site for hockey enthusiasts; if you don't understand all the flaws with that stat, I really question why you're here.

 

[Bombshell11]

Faceoffs are an issue, sure. They are also correctable overtime. Experience helps there.

Plus/minus is a f***ing joke stat that doesn't take into account a number of different factors. I'm not going to list everything wrong with plus/minus here. Because I don't have to. This is a site for hockey enthusiasts; if you don't understand all the flaws with that stat, I really question why you're here.

There’s no simple stat that is taking multiple factors into consideration thats why you have advanced stats….casual fans would probably have a hard time with this notion, its understandable and there’s no shame to admit it.

Goals, assists, pim, shots, +/- etc are just numbers with no context and the problem most casuals have is to find a context to apply these numbers and extract meaningful information from them.

It would be foolish to toss away valuable data just because we dont understand them. Unless we have an agenda and are not working towards obtaining objective conclusions.

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

There’s no simple stat that is taking multiple factors into consideration thats why you have advanced stats….casual fans would probably have a hard time with this notion, its understandable and there’s no shame to admit it.

Goals, assists, pim, shots, +/- etc are just numbers with no context and the problem most casuals have is to find a context to apply these numbers and extract meaningful information from them.

It would be foolish to toss away valuable data just because we dont understand them. Unless we have an agenda and are not working towards obtaining objective conclusions.

A players +/- is as relevant as a goalies SV %.

 

[Bombshell11]

A players +/- is as relevant as a goalies SV %.

No Goalie stat is relevant if you're looking at it this way. Sv% is more relevant to the goalie than GAA. A goalie can't dictate how many shots he's going to face per game but he has an impact on how many go in. To say sv% is shit is equally dumb as saying +/- is shit. Every player on the ice has an impact on the efficiency of team when they're on the ice.

Just like Donato's points this year, no one is thinking that he's that player, we all know its due to the Hawks situation that he's getting to play more important minutes. To his merit he's been capitalizing on his opportunity so we can't also entirely discredit his work.

You can't just nit pick one stat and establish a solid conclusion of a player. You have to use comparables.

People who try to minimize a stat are just as clueless as the people who judge a player solely on his offensive production.

 

[authentic]

Matthews was playing with Marner and Nylander. Not just him but everyone on the list had far better teammates.

If he's Kane with an elite shot then he'll be a better player than Kane. Which he is.

Matthews didn’t even play with Marner his 1st season, was 2nd in the NHL in goals playing 17 minutes a night on the 2nd powerplay unit, also with a much better defensive game.

 

[stahl]

 

[authentic]

Matthews didn’t even play with Marner his 1st season, was 2nd in the NHL in goals playing 17 minutes a night on the 2nd powerplay unit, also with a much better defensive game.

Haha what the heck is so funny about this post there Clyde

View attachment 954357

Exactly. Now do Bedard this season or last, and he’s nowhere close to Matthews.

 

[ClydeLee]

Haha what the heck is so funny about this post there Clyde



Exactly. Now do Bedard this season or last, and he’s nowhere close to Matthews.

Exactly? You outright lied, thats what's funny. You said Matthews was on the 2nd pp unit, how does he have the most ice time of all forwards, 4 secs a game behind Gardnier on the 2nd unit?

And maybe he was on PP2... like 15-20 games and it stuck with you so you think of it that way. I remember some usa junior fans complaining Debrincat was being ruined because he was on PP2 and getting so little ice time his rookie year, and he had terrible teammates, and some people held onto those points for years. Debrincats most common linemate was Toews. But that's not what people remember. It's just a narrative that gets stuck and doesn't reflect reality.

I would rather have Bedard playing less. The problem with where their rebuild is at, there's no other talent on the team and guys like Hall/Teuvo haven't been good enough. Any thinking that more ice time is a better thing, bar no circumstances or execration is a laughable thought process.

 

[BlueAzN]

Bedard is fine. He’ll live up to the 1OA. The only question is if he’s a championship franchise player like NatMack, Connor McDonald, or Auston Matty

 

[authentic]

Exactly? You outright lied, thats what's funny. You said Matthews was on the 2nd pp unit, how does he have the most ice time of all forwards, 4 secs a game behind Gardnier on the 2nd unit?

And maybe he was on PP2... like 15-20 games and it stuck with you so you think of it that way. I remember some usa junior fans complaining Debrincat was being ruined because he was on PP2 and getting so little ice time his rookie year, and he had terrible teammates, and some people held onto those points for years. Debrincats most common linemate was Toews. But that's not what people remember. It's just a narrative that gets stuck and doesn't reflect reality.

I would rather have Bedard playing less. The problem with where their rebuild is at, there's no other talent on the team and guys like Hall/Teuvo haven't been good enough. Any thinking that more ice time is a better thing, bar no circumstances or execration is a laughable thought process.

Just over 17 minutes and 2:28 on the powerplay are not typical first line minutes my boy. He played less than Bedard and was a lot better. Marner, Boazak and JVR were the 1st unit most of that season, and Matthews didn’t even play with Marner at ES regularly until Keefe became coach.

 

[shello]

Guy needs to work on his faceoffs, that much is clear and they will come with experience. I haven't watched a lot of him so I can't speak to his greater defensive game, but his lack of faceoff skills is apartment. He'll live up to 1OA expectations though

 

[ClydeLee]

Just over 17 minutes and 2:28 on the powerplay are not typical first line minutes my boy. He played less than Bedard and was a lot better. Marner, Boazak and JVR were the 1st unit most of that season, and Matthews didn’t even play with Marner at ES regularly until Keefe became coach.

He played the most of all forwards on his team and the most of all forwards on the PP...

This thread has a couple posters with this base thought level assumption that more icetime=better for player and more results should happen with more icetime... More icetime can be a detriment. It typically is a bad sign of the depth on the team helping a star player out. If you are on the worst team in the league, it does not help you. I would say play him less, but for coaches, they still are trying to win and he does help them the most.

When you look at stars of teams who win and go on deep playoff runs, a lot of times you'll see the years they had success, star forwards playing less, playing under 19 minutes sometimes vs over 20 on worse years. You want to limit how much your star plays. It isn't a positive thing if they are playing too much. Like Matthews/Marner, didn't they play the lowest or 2nd lowest time since Keefe took over 2 years ago, when they won a round? McDavid played his least amount since his 2nd year in the league last year. Toews/Kane typically played less under or just at 20mins their cup winning seasons and more other years. Mainly, Matthews playing less then wasn't some negative, in fact, the team should go back to that more.

 

[PaulD]

Way too much hype coming out of junior.
Media love to hear themselves talk......and predict.

 

[Chinaski89]

An elite offensive weapon. But he’s atrocious defensively and on the dot. Still really difficult to project who he is in 5-10 years, largely because Hawks forwards are so bad

Celebrini is already a far better and complete player

 

[MNRube]

Celebrini is already a far better and complete player

I agree he’s a more complete player. Don’t think we have seen enough to say definitively who is better.

 

[wetcoast]

Very unimpressive player every time Dallas plays him, I know he isn't bad but most games against Dallas he doesn't look special.

Funny that a small physically not mature player with crappy linemates doesn't do well against a heavy mature team like the Stars.

I looked up his production against Dallas and it was actually better than expected with a 7-4-2-6 line.

Sure he has a -10 but like I said some of that is a team function.

 

[wetcoast]

Just over 17 minutes and 2:28 on the powerplay are not typical first line minutes my boy. He played less than Bedard and was a lot better. Marner, Boazak and JVR were the 1st unit most of that season, and Matthews didn’t even play with Marner at ES regularly until Keefe became coach.

News alert, AM was more physically mature when he was drafted than Bedard.

This thread is about Bedard.

Way too much hype coming out of junior.
Media love to hear themselves talk......and predict.

The hype was warranted and he is excelling compared to his draft class in a crappy situation, Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Just over 17 minutes and 2:28 on the powerplay are not typical first line minutes my boy. He played less than Bedard and was a lot better. Marner, Boazak and JVR were the 1st unit most of that season, and Matthews didn’t even play with Marner at ES regularly until Keefe became coach.

How exactly does he have the 2nd most PP ice time by 5 seconds if he was on PP2?

 

[Nemesis Prime]

connor midard

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Bedard is fine. He’ll live up to the 1OA. The only question is if he’s a championship franchise player like NatMack, Connor McDonald, or Auston Matty

LoL at including Austin Matty in that list

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Funny that a small physically not mature player with crappy linemates doesn't do well against a heavy mature team like the Stars.

I looked up his production against Dallas and it was actually better than expected with a 7-4-2-6 line.

Sure he has a -10 but like I said some of that is a team function.

Not sure Dallas is heavy, nor mature. Dallas is bottom half of the league for height, weight, and age. But yeah the -10 is probably what is killing the perception rather than the stat line which is better than I expected.

 

[wetcoast]

Not sure Dallas is heavy, nor mature. Dallas is bottom half of the league for height, weight, and age. But yeah the -10 is probably what is killing the perception rather than the stat line which is better than I expected.

Most of those games were last year and I'll rephrase that Dallas is a peak team and much more advanced than the Black Hawks and they were heavy last year and are still a heavy team down the center and on Defense.

Looked it up he had 3 games last year and 4 this year.

 

[Bombshell11]

I agree he’s a more complete player. Don’t think we have seen enough to say definitively who is better.

Right now... Celebrini is ahead by a large gap. If you asked behind the mic any coach in the NHL who they would rather have between these 2 to help them win now, im sure all of them would say Celebrini. You can remove Celebrini's defensive game, he's still better than Bedard.

 

[Bombshell11]

That's fair but all except a few centers in the last 20, 30 years would have the same problem in their D+2 year with the wingers Bedard has been playing with.

He is doing fine all things considered.


Man are you that daft or what?

Or maybe you didn't watch last season on how well the Black Hawks did when they lost their "anchor."

So you're saying Bedard is elevating his team by losing all of his faceoffs and be a liability defensively?

Why are you resorting to personal attacks? whats up with this toxicity? you can't can't come up with arguments?

 

[ViD]

+/- is not an accurate stat to describe a player but -62 in 1.5 seasons is impressive

Ovie was -17 in his first two seasons, Sid was +9. Both were on pretty bad teams first couple of seasons