Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?

[Brookbank]

I think HF talent evaluation is quietly underrated. The question is... is it generational?

The same entities that deemed Crosby and McDavid generational, deemed Bedard generational. Hence why he piled up endorsements before he played a game

 

[Brookbank]

So your argument for him being at Crosby and McDavid's level is that other people said so 2 years ago?

Not very compelling. His body of work in the NHL simply doesn't compare 87 and 97 at the same age.


I said he projects to be better than Patrick Kane, how is that anti-Bedard? In the past I said he had 120+ point potential. How is that anti-Bedard?

Umm no. My argument is that the same people who said McDavid was generational before he was even drafted , said the same about Bedard. And they were right about McDavid.

The same people who said Crosby was generational before he was drafted, said the same about Bedard. And they were right about Crosby.

Were you around in 2004 or 2014 ? I was.

A Patrick Kane with a more elite shot is generational.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I said he projects to be better than Patrick Kane, how is that anti-Bedard? In the past I said he had 120+ point potential. How is that anti-Bedard?

My man you have about a hundred posts getting into semantic debates that you don’t think he’s generational. At best it’s passive aggressive.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Umm no. My argument is that the same people who said McDavid was generational before he was even drafted , said the same about Bedard. And they were right about McDavid.

The same people who said Crosby was generational before he was drafted, said the same about Bedard. And they were right about Crosby.

So like I said, you are basing it on what some people said 2 years ago.

My man you have about a hundred posts getting into semantic debates that you don’t think he’s generational. At best it’s passive aggressive.

The overwhelming majority of which are just me defending myself from the onslaught of posters who disagree with me saying he's not a McDavid / Crosby level talent.

This is a hockey message board - when people challenge my opinions, I will engage with them to explain my position. That doesn't mean I am ant-Bedard. If anything, I was one of his earliest supporters. Go back to his early prospect threads if you don't believe me.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The overwhelming majority of which are just me defending myself from the onslaught of posters who disagree with me saying he's not a McDavid / Crosby level talent.

This is a hockey message board - when people challenge my opinions, I will engage with them to explain my position. That doesn't mean I am ant-Bedard. If anything, I was one of his earliest supporters. Go back to his early prospect threads if you don't believe me.

You also pop into Michkov threads and stuff to randomly chime in that Bedard is not generational.

RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

First they put Michkov at the same tier as Bedard. After they try to find excuses: bad linemates, lack of creativity in the defense. Yeah, I’m rooting for opinion that this Flyers roster is one of the worst in team history. But it’s still far better than last season Blackhawks. And there was no...

forums.hfboards.com

RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

I don’t know if this is a good timing prising Bedards abilities after the game he had yesterday against the Sabres. It’s not like he is setting the league on fire. And imo Bedard has the better linemates to play with. At least no Tippett…

forums.hfboards.com

RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

No, I just watch closer than you do and think for myself instead of conforming to consensus like a sheep If I may think as a free individual instead of being a sheep, consider this breakaway attempt by Michkov. This is a regular occurrence for him, this is just the most recent example I can...

forums.hfboards.com

RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

Talking about +/- So far it's super frustrating with the Flyers and feels like Sochi all over again. I was really hoping Zamula could figure it out but he’s actually so horrendous and so bad at making decisions it’s crazy lol, incredibly low IQ player. Still people used to rant a lot...

forums.hfboards.com

Just own it. Bedard's lack of generational-ness is a topic that interests you greatly.

 

[MuckOG]

Once again, we are caught up in everyone having different definitions. Personally, I don't consider pre-career hype as criteria to determine if a player is considered a "generational" player (sue me). Maybe there's a conflict between "generational talent" vs "generational player". IMO, to become a "generational player" you need to prove it in the NHL BEFORE I will assign that tag to them.

Yes, Bedard came in with all the hype. But how he plays in the NHL (not Juniors) will determine how history looks at him, IMO.

So, until proven otherwise, I will look at Bedard as being a very good player, possibly an elite player....Could he become generational? Sure, but I don't look at him as one, at least not yet.

I think after this season we should be able to get a better handle on that.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

He has zero goals in the past 24 hours. No short handed goals, wouldn’t even make team Russia, has yet to play goalie, absolute trash on a Rubik’s cube- there’s more the kid can’t do than can do.

 

[crowfish]

Anything less than a top-5 Art Ross finish this year and the generational tag is pretty much gone.

Gretzky year 2 = won MVP, Art Ross (He also won MVP in year 1 lol)
Mario year 2 = 2nd MVP, 2nd Art Ross (Wanye Gretzky existed)
Crosby year 2 = won MVP, Art Ross
McDavid year 2 = won MVP, Art Ross

All of those players had a much higher pts/game rookie season relative to the league as well.

 

[cjm502]

Elite at hockey, generational at being a boring human. Connor "The Least Interesting Man in the World" Bedard.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Once again, we are caught up in everyone having different definitions. Personally, I don't consider pre-career hype as criteria to determine if a player is considered a "generational" player (sue me). Maybe there's a conflict between "generational talent" vs "generational player". IMO, to become a "generational player" you need to prove it in the NHL BEFORE I will assign that tag to them.

Yes, Bedard came in with all the hype. But how he plays in the NHL (not Juniors) will determine how history looks at him, IMO.

So, until proven otherwise, I will look at Bedard as being a very good player, possibly an elite player....Could he become generational? Sure, but I don't look at him as one, at least not yet.

I think after this season we should be able to get a better handle on that.

Can't disagree with this as a Hawks fan. His junior hype and WJC record breaking stats are great and all but that doesn't help my team win a Cup. He's got to show a lot more in the NHL, which I think he's completely capable of it just may take some time like a Jack Hughes or Nathan MacKinnon. Keep in mind he hasn't even played a full 82 games in his career yet.

 

[Brookbank]

Anything less than a top-5 Art Ross finish this year and the generational tag is pretty much gone.

Gretzky year 2 = won MVP, Art Ross (He also won MVP in year 1 lol)
Mario year 2 = 2nd MVP, 2nd Art Ross (Wanye Gretzky existed)
Crosby year 2 = won MVP, Art Ross
McDavid year 2 = won MVP, Art Ross

All of those players had a much higher pts/game rookie season relative to the league as well.

Some of these players were older in year 2 than Bedard is.

 

[Brookbank]

Elite at hockey, generational at being a boring human. Connor "The Least Interesting Man in the World" Bedard.

So not a lot of difference here either between McDavid or Crosby then.

Should he punch up a taxi driver over 50 cents to spice things up a little ?

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Generational goal scorer, and no previous top 10 all-time caliber goal scorer had anywhere close to the two-way game he has. Really in a way he's a very unique player that hasn't come along before, a two-way center who can score 60-70 goals?

He's only a two-way player because of the lobbying of Toronto media. We've seen how soft he actually is on the ice. A lifetime of blown coverage and soft plays.

He's a great regular season scorer, and the NHL has seen a lot of those.

 

[57special]

Eh... he's good, but no Faber.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Some people have loose definitions of generational. Will be a great player, won’t be generational.
I’m a big hawks fan.

 

[cjm502]

So not a lot of difference here either between McDavid or Crosby then.

Should he punch up a taxi driver over 50 cents to spice things up a little ?

yes

 

[57special]

IMO

Rocket
Howe
Hull
Orr
Gretz
Lemieux
Lidstrom?
Crosby
Ovi
McDavid

Guys like Morenz, Shore, Beliveau, Harvey, Lafleur, Espo, Bourque, Dionne, Jagr, Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Yzerman, Sakic, Messier, Coffey, Mackinnon, among many others, have strong cases, but fall just below the line, for me. All the guys above dominated the league for a time, and were acknowleged as the best. Ovi is the one guy you can argue, but he scored so often, for so long, that I think he belongs.

Bedard is still super young, so it's too early to say anything definitive about him(Lafleur was underwhelming in his first three years), but I don't see generational. If he can be mentioned in the same breath as the group in the paragraph, or in the Kane/Mahovlich/Perreault/Mikita tier, it would be a great accomplishment.

 

[Golden_Jet]

IMO

Rocket
Howe
Hull
Orr
Gretz
Lemieux
Lidstrom?
Crosby
Ovi
McDavid

Guys like Morenz, Shore, Beliveau, Harvey, Lafleur, Espo, Bourque, Dionne, Jagr, Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Yzerman, Sakic, Messier, Coffey, Mackinnon, among many others, have strong cases, but fall just below the line, for me. All the guys above dominated the league for a time, and were acknowleged as the best. Ovi is the one guy you can argue, but he scored so often, for so long, that I think he belongs.

Bedard is still super young, so it's too early to say anything definitive about him(Lafleur was underwhelming in his first three years), but I don't see generational. If he can be mentioned in the same breath as the group in the paragraph, or in the Kane/Mahovlich/Perreault/Mikita tier, it would be a great accomplishment.

Good list

 

[NyQuil]

Generational goal scorer, and no previous top 10 all-time caliber goal scorer had anywhere close to the two-way game he has. Really in a way he's a very unique player that hasn't come along before, a two-way center who can score 60-70 goals?

Until he does something in the post-season he’s shaping up to be Marcel Dionne.

Is he generational?

 

[Voight]

IMO

Rocket
Howe
Hull
Orr
Gretz
Lemieux
Lidstrom?
Crosby
Ovi
McDavid

Guys like Morenz, Shore, Beliveau, Harvey, Lafleur, Espo, Bourque, Dionne, Jagr, Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Yzerman, Sakic, Messier, Coffey, Mackinnon, among many others, have strong cases, but fall just below the line, for me. All the guys above dominated the league for a time, and were acknowleged as the best. Ovi is the one guy you can argue, but he scored so often, for so long, that I think he belongs.

Bedard is still super young, so it's too early to say anything definitive about him(Lafleur was underwhelming in his first three years), but I don't see generational. If he can be mentioned in the same breath as the group in the paragraph, or in the Kane/Mahovlich/Perreault/Mikita tier, it would be a great accomplishment.

Rocket, Hull nor Lidstrom were generational. Great, all time players but short of generational.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Rocket, Hull nor Lidstrom were generational. Great, all time players but short of generational.

Hull wasn’t? He’s always been talked about as THE player of his era from what I’ve heard. He’s got what would be an absurd amount of Rocket trophies.

If generational only means Gretzky, Lemieux, McDavid, Orr, Crosby, and Ovechkin then it’s a stupid term and I can’t believe this site spends so much time debating it.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

IMO

Rocket
Howe
Hull
Orr
Gretz
Lemieux
Lidstrom?
Crosby
Ovi
McDavid

Guys like Morenz, Shore, Beliveau, Harvey, Lafleur, Espo, Bourque, Dionne, Jagr, Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Yzerman, Sakic, Messier, Coffey, Mackinnon, among many others, have strong cases, but fall just below the line, for me. All the guys above dominated the league for a time, and were acknowleged as the best. Ovi is the one guy you can argue, but he scored so often, for so long, that I think he belongs.

Bedard is still super young, so it's too early to say anything definitive about him(Lafleur was underwhelming in his first three years), but I don't see generational. If he can be mentioned in the same breath as the group in the paragraph, or in the Kane/Mahovlich/Perreault/Mikita tier, it would be a great accomplishment.

Orr
Gretzky
Lemieux

You can make a case for a couple other guys but if your list is much bigger than that then you don't understand what generational means.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Rocket, Hull nor Lidstrom were generational. Great, all time players but short of generational.

I likely have Rocket and Bobby Hull in, as they are all ranked in the top 10 all time, not like some that are putting guys ranked top 50 in.

 

[57special]

Rocket, Hull nor Lidstrom were generational. Great, all time players but short of generational.

Disagree on the first two, as someone who is old enough to be around for Hull, and know how Richard was regarded in his day. There was always a massive controversy as to whether Howe or Richard was better. Lidstrom I am less sure about ...

 

[the valiant effort]

I will preface by saying Lidstrom was without a doubt one of the most impressive players I ever watched. The biggest argument in favour of Lidstrom's "generational" status would be the absurd number of Norrises, and, IMO, the PWHA got carried away with awarding a few of them.

That people put so much stock in a trophy awarded by professional hockey writers is another conversation altogether...