Has anyone else lost faith in Bill Armstrong?

[Jamieh]

OEL holds all the cards of where he wants to play next year. IF I was him, I would get the hell out of Dodge.

OEL seems like a guy who likes to stay in the background and fly under the radar. There is no way I get excited about a trade that puts me under the microscope if the team or myself play poorly. In AZ barely anyone knows who he is.

 

[hbk]

Zito didn't need a year to evaluate that Matheson was shit and had to go.

There is/was a huge opportunity cost to not acting last summer for no real benefit this year. They could have traded OEL and Kuemper and been no worse off. The organization would be at least 6 top 90 assets richer right now, with even more flexibility moving forward.

If OEL refuses to waive anywhere, this team is in trouble.

Helps when u have a 1C in Barkov. Lots of holes in our top 6. To fill takes long-term planning.

 

[rt]

We had an offer from both, we don't know what it was and neither does Morgan. Regardless we can't go back now. we will get some cap dumps back now even if OEL waves again which he won't. OEL is still on a .5 point pace and his partner is sometimes scratched Bush. Give him a decent partner and a different coach, that is our only hope now. Its always easy to say would have should have could have, the time to sell is when the aging asset is producing, Pitt was smart when they got rid of Phil as an example.

Now that Chych is a 1D, OEL only has to be a second pairing D (less pressure), even though OEL is still better in the D zone than Chych as is Goose. Chych/OEL is a fine 1LD/2LD, we need both a 1RHD/2RHD once Goose is gone. Demers/Bush/Hjam are all third pairing D now.

You think Morgan lied about the return? That risk taker that he is. Yer nutz.

 

[rt]

I never said I agree with the things I said from a management stand point but they are things to take into consideration. Not many GMs make one of their first moves trading the captain that who is considered the face of the franchise for a low value trade.

Not sure how you can disagree with the trade deadline. This team has limited quality prospects as it is and likely had none injected into the system last year. They arent competing for a cup and have way too many players hitting the market where they will be lost for nothing.. getting value back instead of losing that value for nothing is only logical. That's why Jeff Gorton has done a great job. Even now that NYR are competing he's still loading draft picks where he gets the chance to and he already has a large amount of quality prospects he can use at any time.

Firing Tocchet costs money because now you have to pay for another coach to take his job.. it may not be alot more but it is more. And typically a HC gets to choose his assistants so you may have to replace more than just Tocchet but that depends more on who takes over.

You don’t have to pay another coach. Varady or BA himself could’ve done it. It’s not like BA was busy at the TDL anyway.

 

[rt]

At the deadline we were still right in the thick of the playoff race. Even if you back into a spot, you still make the playoffs. So I understand keeping the group together rather than selling Demers for a 2024 7th rounder. And if you move guys for picks, who is filling out the roster? Tucson is already short with our call-ups and guys in the taxi.

Even more so, the likelihood is almost all of our pending UFAs have zero value, save for Goligoski, who has only really come on after the deadline. Besides, he has good chemistry with our most important player and we may just be more interested in re-signing him.

I just can't imagine there is an NHL team war room out there thinking stuff like, "You know what this team really needs? A broken down Antti Raanta. And a rapidly regressing Jason Demers."

Overall, I am seeing a big disconnect between "These players suck, get rid of them" and "Why is nobody trading for these players??".

Totally agree with this. But I gotta say, your confidence in there being a market for OEL strikes me as similar to the disconnect you mentioned in your closing.

 

[Mosby]

OEL granted a move to only two teams last year and both were interested.

He has been better this year than last and his contract is now also one year shorter.

 

[rt]

OEL granted a move to only two teams last year and both were interested.

He has been better this year than last and his contract is now also one year shorter.

The one year came off the wrong end of the contract, my man. It’s one less of the good years and the same amount of bad ones.

 

[Mosby]

Ehh, I'm not too concerned about that. If OEL was a UFA this summer, I think he could easily get 6 years.

 

[Jamieh]

Ehh, I'm not too concerned about that. If OEL was a UFA this summer, I think he could easily get 6 years.

At $8.25 million? I highly doubt that.

 

[Mosby]

In a non-covid world? It's probably close. This board is talking about giving 42 over 6 to RNH even though in 2 years that is going to be one ugly deal.

 

[Jamieh]

In a non-covid world? It's probably close. This board is talking about giving 42 over 6 to RNH even though in 2 years that is going to be one ugly deal.

But it isn't a non covid world.

 

[SniperHF]

He has been better this year than last and his contract is now also one year shorter.

Maybe on paper, my eye test has me pretty close to done with him.

 

[Grimes]

Maybe on paper, my eye test has me pretty close to done with him.

Thankfully on paper he has looked better. The past two weeks of games have been bad. The first two months of games were encouraging.

I really hope if we miss the playoffs again and Boston goes on a big run, or Florida with his buddy Yandle or Edmonton with his buddies Tippett and Smith maybe he will reconsider which teams he would be traded to. I'm also hoping a GM is really infatuated with him still.

When he went into the boards last night and was slow to get up, it dawned on me that maybe he isn't fully recovered from his injury from the start of the season. Maybe he rushed back to help the team. Of this is the case I hope BA can sell a GM on it.

 

[Mosby]

I'd move OEL more so for a leadership/room/slow starts shakeup, not because of what he is doing on the ice.

Deleting a good chunk of the core is needed, and that may include OEL. Thankfully a lot of the faces will just go away this summer without us having to anything (Tocchet, Demers, Hammer, Raanta, etc). Those 3 players alone are like $13 million. Insane.

 

[PuckLife]

My BS radar on BA has been up since his introduction when he said Xavier Gutierrez is "by far the most fascinating human being I have ever met in my life." Get to Know the GM: Bill Armstrong

Too early to write him off, but come on!

 

[cobra427]

You think Morgan lied about the return? That risk taker that he is. Yer nutz.

I think he speculated, when has he ever had accurate info on trades going down anyway? OEL is a .5 player this year with crappy D partners on a bad offensive team. He is still good on D, better than anyone else we have in his own zone and with zone exits. With Chych as the 1D, we are fine with OEl on second pair. Get rid of RT, and get him a decent RHD to play with, he will be better.

As for his contract, yes he is over paid by maybe 1-2 mill. The salary structure of the NHL over pays UFA year players, look at OEL/Goose/Hjam/Demers/Raanta, all over paid vets on the down hill slope. We have to accept that any vets in their UFA years are going to be over paid versus their production, we offset that with Garland/Chych type contracts.

I think a good strategy might be to trade players a year or two before they become UFAs. Look at Chych as an example, if he keeps going the way he is, we would have to pay him $10 mill for 8 years to keep him at UFA time. We could get a kings ransom for him, picks, young players, etc.. I am not saying we should trade him, just thinking about strategy: sell players on the rise before UFA time, because at UFA you have to over pay versus future performance.

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

I think it is quite premature to assess his performance.

BA won the job based on a 5 year plan. This is his 8th month in the role.

If he, annoyingly, looks a bit too gentle and protective of his team's performance at times, it probably is just that this is a year for him to assess what there is in that club, mostly what there is not, whilst running out RT's contract and let the whole Covid play out.

I will be very surprised if the summer does not bring major changes; I expect that he will lay the foundations of his plan.

 

[tucknroll]

You don’t have to pay another coach. Varady or BA himself could’ve done it. It’s not like BA was busy at the TDL anyway.

I would be happy to see Tocchet let go, I hated the fact we interviewed Keefe and we ended up with Tocchet right from day 1, I wanted him fired after his first 10 games... And more importantly I wanted him fired last season when the team was making a run because I thought it was a wasted run with him coaching... I just don't think it's a pressing matter this season anymore, letting him run out the last 3 months of his 4 year contract isn't going to do anymore harm. I do agree that Varady could have taken over or any of the Ass. Coaches possibly to finish the season. I have no clue what position BA is in with ownership though or what he has planned for coaching in the off season. If he is planning on making Varady HC anyways then maybe he didn't want to give him the leverage to ask for a bigger contract.. I really have no clue. But hiring any other coach than an assistant would cost more money.

 

[rt]

I think he speculated, when has he ever had accurate info on trades going down anyway?

Nonsense. He named names. Craig doesn't do that.

 

[rt]

I'd move OEL more so for a leadership/room/slow starts shakeup, not because of what he is doing on the ice.

Same. I think we're only arguing because you're is like 80/20 and mine is like 60/40 but we do agree, overall. I'm just more pessimistic and therefore more desperate.

 

[Mosby]

I think the key takeaway is Armstrong really just entered the season looking to evaluate and not shake things up. This is year one of his five year plan, and ups and downs were inevitable, especially this year. The season isn’t done so the evaluation isn’t done. After the deadline for example he talked about evaluating how the team responds to pressure situations. We are seeing that now. Let’s get through the last 8 or whatever games here and then act on those evaluations.

 

[Jakey53]

My BS radar on BA has been up since his introduction when he said Xavier Gutierrez is "by far the most fascinating human being I have ever met in my life." Get to Know the GM: Bill Armstrong

Too early to write him off, but come on!

Have you meet Gutierrez?

 

[PuckLife]

Have you meet Gutierrez?

Nope - but he doesn’t look too fascinating from my perspective.

 

[Mosby]

Army isn’t the first guy to kiss his boss’s ass. Managing up just makes too much sense these days.

Let’s just get through these last few games. We knew coming in that this season was going to be a rollercoaster. No point in screaming to get off when it’s 90% done.

 

[XX]

OEL granted a move to only two teams last year and both were interested.

He has been better this year than last and his contract is now also one year shorter.

He hasn't been better this year. In fact, his decline as an actual defender has continued. You can't be so easily impressed by PP points. OEL has 4 more points than Jordan Gross 5v5. Gross played seven games. He has the worst on ice save rate of any regular by 2%. He doesn't block shots. This is a continuation of an already bad decline.

Exactly zero teams will watch the tape and think he's worth his cap hit or money owed. With the NMC, it's likely there's only a few teams even if he waives, further reducing leverage.

We better hope it's an open secret that OEL is dogging it this year and wants a fresh start somewhere, or with a new coach. The alternative is not pretty.