OEL is having his worst season to date objectively speaking. There aren't a lot of teams who are going to offer a 1st+2nd+more for a sub replacement player owed 50 million over the next six years.
Has anyone else lost faith in Bill Armstrong?
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OEL is having his worst season to date objectively speaking. There aren't a lot of teams who are going to offer a 1st+2nd+more for a sub replacement player owed 50 million over the next six years.
Jormungandr
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For me, the offseason is the time to judge, not before.
You have to remember, this is Armstrong's first season seeing this team up close. I wasn't happy that he sat out the TDL, but I still think that there is a legitimate case to be made that he wanted to see if this core would sink or swim on their own, to judge whether he had enough pieces to build on in the offseason or if he would need to break up the team completely.
I'm also willing to believe that nobody offered us anything at the deadline that would be a real asset going forward, because we're the Coyotes.
So no, I'm not on the lynch mob right now. But if Tocchet (and, preferably, Housley) isn't gone post-haste after the end of the season, and if BA doesn't start doing some serious facelifting on this team - starting with either a trade of or an ultimatum to OEL - then I'll start researching pitchforks.
You have to remember, this is Armstrong's first season seeing this team up close. I wasn't happy that he sat out the TDL, but I still think that there is a legitimate case to be made that he wanted to see if this core would sink or swim on their own, to judge whether he had enough pieces to build on in the offseason or if he would need to break up the team completely.
I'm also willing to believe that nobody offered us anything at the deadline that would be a real asset going forward, because we're the Coyotes.
So no, I'm not on the lynch mob right now. But if Tocchet (and, preferably, Housley) isn't gone post-haste after the end of the season, and if BA doesn't start doing some serious facelifting on this team - starting with either a trade of or an ultimatum to OEL - then I'll start researching pitchforks.
rt
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rt
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It's funny, I completely disagree with your 1st four points. I really don't have issues with the lack of movement at the deadline. Firing Tocchet cost no additional money and should never have been a consideration. Worrying about the perception of "losing" a deal that absolutely had to get done represents horrifically misplaced priorities.
rt
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I'm pretty certain there was an offer from Boston that got pulled at some point. The chatter ahead of OEL's deadline was that it was now "down to" the Canucks. The national guys also said Vancouver made a last minute addition to close the deal (likely the 2nd) but it wasn't good enough because BA wanted one of Podkolzin, Hoglander, or Demko. Names like that had me all gaga at the time. But I'm just a fan. In hindsight it was a horrible mistake not to just take what we could get. It's looking to me like OEL will have one of the five worst contracts in the NHL as soon as the end of next season. He doesn't look like he even wants to play hockey anymore. They should start working on an LTIR scam now so he can just stay home.
BA is new to the Yotes, not the NHL. He knew exactly who we had as players. Other teams also know our players.
Name Nameless
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Yes, I think he is desperate to keep his job, so it's not likely he is going to repeat that offer. By now he should know he dogded one.
And that's why I say I'll give BA a pass on this one: this is the kind of thing you catch on to sooner when it happens with a player you have followed closely. The other GMs didn't catch it either, which is why Boston allegedly still had some interest, even if they were lowballing (or everyone thought they were lowballing). And this is why Vancouver were offering a positive price.
I really hope OEL is playing with some injury now. But I'm starting to suspect he is cooked.
Agreed. Two of the loudest posters in this forum are obsessing over OEL and the incessant posting every game he plays is just nonstop negativity. He literally can do nothing to please them.
It makes no sense either. The Coyotes are not an attractive proposition to high class free agents and never have been. We're not going to magic a top 2 defenseman out of thin air by freeing up the cap space. Only once have we ever been able to crow about a FA defenseman and that was Goligoski 5 years ago (slightly embarassing now how desperate we were). We have Chychrun and precious little depth. Chychrun isnt exactly known for staying healthy and less than a year ago choked big time in the playoff bubble. Our best chance of getting another elite level defenseman is OEL himself and getting him back to a level we know he can play at. He's 29 not 39 and plays a style that is conducive to a long career. He's clearly checked out and we need a coach and teammates that inspire him. You can see him being deadly on a team like Boston. We have little choice, our next best chance after rehabbing OEL is waiting 3-4 years for Soderstrom to reach his peak.
rt
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I do not. He MIGHT consider Loui Eriksson for OEL if he’s desperate enough. And we should take that deal and run.
rt
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Mosby
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Breathe.
Eriksson was on waivers earlier this season. At his worst, OEL is an overpaid top-pairing guy.
If Vancouver came back with the same package I'd give it more consideration this time around. Not because of OEL's play but rather because we know where the first rounder is. It's looking like a top 10ish. In the summer, that could have been a 20th or so pick after what Van did in last year's playoffs. Even in a shit draft, a top-10 pick is useful, either to draft with or flip for another piece.
rt
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Eriksson would easily be the worst player on our team. I would absolutely deal OEL for him in an instant. He has one year at 4m left.
Honestly, we might be able to work a deal where he retires after we pay his 1m SB and he leaves 3m on the table. Or so a mutual termination or whatever. He can go back to Sweden and sign a deal for at least half that and be made nearly whole. Frolunda is his hometown team and one of the richest in the SEL. I’m sure they’d give him 1.5m.
Saves us 9.5 million in real dollars next year.
rt
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No, he didn't know exactly - and wouldn't, until he got the position he's in now.
You can know about players as a scout, or as an executive for another team, but you don't know them until they become your players.
tucknroll
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I never said I agree with the things I said from a management stand point but they are things to take into consideration. Not many GMs make one of their first moves trading the captain that who is considered the face of the franchise for a low value trade.
Not sure how you can disagree with the trade deadline. This team has limited quality prospects as it is and likely had none injected into the system last year. They arent competing for a cup and have way too many players hitting the market where they will be lost for nothing.. getting value back instead of losing that value for nothing is only logical. That's why Jeff Gorton has done a great job. Even now that NYR are competing he's still loading draft picks where he gets the chance to and he already has a large amount of quality prospects he can use at any time.
Firing Tocchet costs money because now you have to pay for another coach to take his job.. it may not be alot more but it is more. And typically a HC gets to choose his assistants so you may have to replace more than just Tocchet but that depends more on who takes over.
Mosby
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At the deadline we were still right in the thick of the playoff race. Even if you back into a spot, you still make the playoffs. So I understand keeping the group together rather than selling Demers for a 2024 7th rounder. And if you move guys for picks, who is filling out the roster? Tucson is already short with our call-ups and guys in the taxi.
Even more so, the likelihood is almost all of our pending UFAs have zero value, save for Goligoski, who has only really come on after the deadline. Besides, he has good chemistry with our most important player and we may just be more interested in re-signing him.
I just can't imagine there is an NHL team war room out there thinking stuff like, "You know what this team really needs? A broken down Antti Raanta. And a rapidly regressing Jason Demers."
Overall, I am seeing a big disconnect between "These players suck, get rid of them" and "Why is nobody trading for these players??".
Even more so, the likelihood is almost all of our pending UFAs have zero value, save for Goligoski, who has only really come on after the deadline. Besides, he has good chemistry with our most important player and we may just be more interested in re-signing him.
I just can't imagine there is an NHL team war room out there thinking stuff like, "You know what this team really needs? A broken down Antti Raanta. And a rapidly regressing Jason Demers."
Overall, I am seeing a big disconnect between "These players suck, get rid of them" and "Why is nobody trading for these players??".
We had an offer from both, we don't know what it was and neither does Morgan. Regardless we can't go back now. we will get some cap dumps back now even if OEL waves again which he won't. OEL is still on a .5 point pace and his partner is sometimes scratched Bush. Give him a decent partner and a different coach, that is our only hope now. Its always easy to say would have should have could have, the time to sell is when the aging asset is producing, Pitt was smart when they got rid of Phil as an example.
Now that Chych is a 1D, OEL only has to be a second pairing D (less pressure), even though OEL is still better in the D zone than Chych as is Goose. Chych/OEL is a fine 1LD/2LD, we need both a 1RHD/2RHD once Goose is gone. Demers/Bush/Hjam are all third pairing D now.
I still don't really know what to make of Armstrong in general. I know what his rep is, but his imprint doesn't seem to be on the team either. Unless of course he agrees with where the team is at and its trajectory (such as that's possible with all the penalties anyway) in which case we'll certainly know that in another 6 months.
MIGs Dog
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We could know in 12 days how he feels about the coaching staff.
Maybe, but I feel like a normal team woulda fired Tocc already. Either us not firing him is a function of BA liking him enough or a function of us not being a normal team.
GhostofYotesFan47
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That's not entirely true, we don't know whats been said behind closed doors. BA could have told RT that his extension will be based on team performance and he has until game 56 (if no playoffs) to show that. I'd imagine BA is fully aware of RT's reputation around the league and wants to handle things in a way that he believes will be right by everyone involved.
