Has anyone else lost faith in Bill Armstrong?
- Thread starter 0point1
- Start date
Widespread change doesn't happen in 1 or 2 seasons IMHO.
Give him time.
I've seen firsthand how good he is.
My 2 cents...
Give him time.
I've seen firsthand how good he is.
My 2 cents...
Name Nameless
Don't go more than 10 seconds back on challenges
- Apr 12, 2017
- 6,571
- 3,044
Yea, way to early to even start thinking this.
Yeah, he hasn't even been here one season, a shortened one at that where finances are poor across the league making free agency and trading more difficult than ever. You can look at the signings in free agency and see money doled out to free agents was far lower than in most offseason. RFAs were less effected, but they have less open-ended contracts. The team hasn't had a stellar record recently either, so who was he going to attract of note?
I don't know how you look at the deals at the deadline and think there was much to be done. It was a further continuation of the offseason. Only a few teams who look much more legitimate were adding and the pieces Armstrong had to move were clearly not at the level of those moved. There weren't even "hockey trades" being done because of the added uncertainty in adding contracts that don't end after this season. There are many who said to expect more moves come the offseason because the whole league is still gun-shy about opening up the purses until they get some clarity on the league's economics for next season.
Lastly, he hasn't even gotten to run a draft yet, his calling card, because he had to sit out the first one, and he's more hamstrung than any new GM likely has been coming into his first one this offseason. What do you legitimately expect from him? Would sitting on an additional 3rd round pick make all your worries go away? I think you're overstating the value he missed out on not moving everything, and likewise similarly with the value to be gained by the younger core in fighting for a playoff spot again and whatever they could do if they make it. Look at it from Chychrun's perspective. I think getting him playing these meaningful games down the stretch and if they were to make it, in the playoffs would be great for him and outweighs the return for trading say, his partner, Goligoski, for say a third rounder. I think helping him to get to work on getting to that next level alone is worth that pick.
So no, I think you're too hasty in judging him when his hands have been tied and it hasn't even been that long. I didn't even address Tocchet, but I see no point in further lamenting it as a given that he'll be extended when there is no legitimate report indicating that's how he leans, and yet half this forum has worked up a lather on their incessance than it'll happen.
I don't know how you look at the deals at the deadline and think there was much to be done. It was a further continuation of the offseason. Only a few teams who look much more legitimate were adding and the pieces Armstrong had to move were clearly not at the level of those moved. There weren't even "hockey trades" being done because of the added uncertainty in adding contracts that don't end after this season. There are many who said to expect more moves come the offseason because the whole league is still gun-shy about opening up the purses until they get some clarity on the league's economics for next season.
Lastly, he hasn't even gotten to run a draft yet, his calling card, because he had to sit out the first one, and he's more hamstrung than any new GM likely has been coming into his first one this offseason. What do you legitimately expect from him? Would sitting on an additional 3rd round pick make all your worries go away? I think you're overstating the value he missed out on not moving everything, and likewise similarly with the value to be gained by the younger core in fighting for a playoff spot again and whatever they could do if they make it. Look at it from Chychrun's perspective. I think getting him playing these meaningful games down the stretch and if they were to make it, in the playoffs would be great for him and outweighs the return for trading say, his partner, Goligoski, for say a third rounder. I think helping him to get to work on getting to that next level alone is worth that pick.
So no, I think you're too hasty in judging him when his hands have been tied and it hasn't even been that long. I didn't even address Tocchet, but I see no point in further lamenting it as a given that he'll be extended when there is no legitimate report indicating that's how he leans, and yet half this forum has worked up a lather on their incessance than it'll happen.
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
All it takes is one good look at what he got saddled with and you can't even begin to pretend he was going to be an overnight miracle worker.
Name Nameless
Don't go more than 10 seconds back on challenges
- Apr 12, 2017
- 6,571
- 3,044
Only thing is he failed to dump OEL when he had the chance. But it's the only thing that's on him.
I'd disagree. There's more than that to criticise.
He's failed to dump Tocchet at several opportune times.
He stuck with this roster at trade deadline and gave us a blurb as to why.
Should've been in on that Sam Bennett trade. He probably didnt want to give up that 2nd from Stepan.
Has left Tucson to flounder by taking their top coach and not replacing him.
Lets hope his signings of Provolnev and Jaskin? work out. We're not going to know until October.. going to be a long time to wait. If he keeps Tocchet, we'll know immediately it's not going to get better.
This was always an evaluation year. The fact that we dealt Stepan for a 2nd was a bloody miracle. The major changes couldn’t start until we had cap space or budget room.
Mosby
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2012
- 24,167
- 19,886
Re: Deadline - you can’t sell what nobody wants to buy.
MIGs Dog
Registered User
- Jan 3, 2012
- 14,691
- 12,732
This thread is at least 2 years premature. BA hasn't even had one draft, and if we get a top performing NHLer out if this year's draft it'll be considered a great selection.
Give the guy time to build his team.
Give the guy time to build his team.
I agree, he came from a great organization, maybe most consistent team in the Blues last 10 years. They figured out how to be consistently good. Give him time.
We don't know for what though? I would still keep in mind that once RT is gone, OEL might be better. For the last time, guys that are over paid, 30 years old, and have NMCs, are next to impossible to trade. Like it or not, we are stuck with OEL.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
1. It’s clear now he should have taken whatever the best offer for OEL was. If I could trade him for a 7th round pick I would.
2. It was obvious to every single person here that Tocchet needed to be fired on March 17th.
These were two big mistakes. As long as he doesn’t re-sign Tocchet and he does manage to somehow find a way to dump OEL, I’ll be fine. No harm done. And hopefully some lessons learned.
If Tocchet and OEL are still Coyotes next season, I’m switching to the Kraken.
2. It was obvious to every single person here that Tocchet needed to be fired on March 17th.
These were two big mistakes. As long as he doesn’t re-sign Tocchet and he does manage to somehow find a way to dump OEL, I’ll be fine. No harm done. And hopefully some lessons learned.
If Tocchet and OEL are still Coyotes next season, I’m switching to the Kraken.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
Horse shit. We had an offer from Boston and an offer from Vancouver. Offers containing actual assets. BA shit the bed. He choked and the moment passed. NOW we are stuck with OEL. But we didn’t have to be. This is 100% on BA.
Morgan said, by the way, he believed the offer was Virtanen, Sutter, a 1st and a 2nd. If I could trade OEL for any ONE of those pieces I would. Even the UFA to be Sutter (who I wouldn’t re-sign).
Last edited:
But he was surrounded by good hockey minds. He is kind of on a island by himself here, but he deserves much more time. Can't wait who he picks as our HC.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
BA would win me back if he were to fire Tocchet and Housley today, name himself interim head coach, and immediately name Chychrun captain and health-bomb OEL for the final seven games of the season.
OEL holds all the cards of where he wants to play next year. IF I was him, I would get the hell out of Dodge.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
Accountability doesn’t take two years. It’s outrageous that Rick Tocchet is still the coach. It signals that this kind of performance continues to be acceptable. BA promised accountability. Tough talk. No walk.
Name Nameless
Don't go more than 10 seconds back on challenges
- Apr 12, 2017
- 6,571
- 3,044
Well, he was new. He didn't know OEL was falling off a cliff. The reason why other teams were interested, is they didn't know, either. As OEL has an NMC, it -sadly- cannot be held against him if he doesn't get another chance, and now the other teams also knows. (edited a bit on wording, nothing major.)
Last edited:
Mosby
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2012
- 24,167
- 19,886
I don’t think we actually had an offer from Boston? Just Vancouver.
I can also see why fire Tocchet when you can just release him at end of season. Why waste the fire bullet now.
I can also see why fire Tocchet when you can just release him at end of season. Why waste the fire bullet now.
Mosby
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2012
- 24,167
- 19,886
Some of the OEL commentary is insane, like giving him away. I have no doubt that Vancouver would offer the exact same deal today for example, because it wasn’t a very good offer to begin with.
I am open to moving OEL but don’t give him away.
I am open to moving OEL but don’t give him away.
Zito didn't need a year to evaluate that Matheson was shit and had to go.
There is/was a huge opportunity cost to not acting last summer for no real benefit this year. They could have traded OEL and Kuemper and been no worse off. The organization would be at least 6 top 90 assets richer right now, with even more flexibility moving forward.
If OEL refuses to waive anywhere, this team is in trouble.
tucknroll
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2015
- 671
- 291
1. The Stepan trade was good.. but not a miracle that he got a second back. Truly believed from his rep around the league he'd be worth a second.
2. Not selling OEL was likely more about not looking like he lost a huge trade so early in his tenure. Would have been a horrible look if OEL turned it around in Vancouver and our return wasnt sufficient.
3. No point wasting money and getting rid of Tocchet in the last few months of his contract when your team doesn't have a ton of money anyways.. just let the contract run out.
4. He butchered the deadline.. he needed to bring in some picks and he failed to do that. I wouldn't care if they were all 7ths.. but I also don't know what the expectations from ownership are.. maybe they weren't on board with players when there is still potential for playoff money
5. Needs to do a better job with the Roadrunners.. never let your development team collapse like this. But he's still in year 1 so I don't hold too much against him for 1 bad year with the AHL team
2. Not selling OEL was likely more about not looking like he lost a huge trade so early in his tenure. Would have been a horrible look if OEL turned it around in Vancouver and our return wasnt sufficient.
3. No point wasting money and getting rid of Tocchet in the last few months of his contract when your team doesn't have a ton of money anyways.. just let the contract run out.
4. He butchered the deadline.. he needed to bring in some picks and he failed to do that. I wouldn't care if they were all 7ths.. but I also don't know what the expectations from ownership are.. maybe they weren't on board with players when there is still potential for playoff money
5. Needs to do a better job with the Roadrunners.. never let your development team collapse like this. But he's still in year 1 so I don't hold too much against him for 1 bad year with the AHL team
