Prospect Info: Hartford Wolf Pack/Bloomington Bison Thread: Part XV

[The Crypto Guy]

Robertson should absolutely be moved in the offseason. Maybe we can get a 3rd for him. He has no NHL future.

 

[Mandar]

Robertson should absolutely be moved in the offseason. Maybe we can get a 3rd for him. He has no NHL future.

not according to @bernmeister

 

[cwede]

Robertson should absolutely be moved in the offseason. Maybe we can get a 3rd for him. He has no NHL future.

not according to bernmeister

or many other of us
rush to judgement on 23-year-olds, who'd been seen as promising,
has never made sense to me
each prospect has their own development arc

 

[Ranger Ric]

Hartford loses 4-1. Their season is over.

They took the assist away from Roobroeck.

In the parts of the game I saw Roobroeck looked fine but the initial assist award clearly was wrong. Roobroeck makes a nice pass to Hallowell for a good shot that is stopped and goes behind the net. The Bears defenseman gets to the puck and throws it up the boards where Hallowell stops it and throws it to Chmelar who is all alone in front. Chmelar shows good strength and hands to gather the puck and put it in.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

or many other of us
rush to judgement on 23-year-olds, who'd been seen as promising,
has never made sense to me
each prospect has their own development arc

He's barely developed at all in 3 years in the AHL.

Not all players are going to the NHL, he was a 3rd round pick that people started to fawn over and overrate because of a big covid season in the WHL.

 

[cwede]

series of Keegan Jarvis @TheKeeganJarvis tweets of
extensive post-game (post-season) comments from Wolf Pack’s Acting Head Coach Steve Smith

Smith: Losing is never fun. I think the one thing you do as an athlete or a coach is learn how this feels, how terrible a feeling it is, and how deep set it is. This isn’t superficial wounds, this is right to your heart.

Smith: I’m disappointed in the results from tonight. We had a group that worked really hard, and I still believed going into tonight’s game that we could beat the Hershey Bears.

Smith: Right now, I’m looking forward to going home and seeing my kids and grandkids and just digesting the season. The offseason is another world as well. As an assistant coach, I’m working on my handicap. I don’t think I’m gonna be doing that as a head coach.

Smith: You’re truly involved in the outcome of the game every single night, and you live and die by it. There were many nights where I didn’t sleep at all thinking about things I could’ve done differently. I truly enjoyed the process on a daily basis.

Smith: I haven’t thought about the future very much, to tell you the truth. I truly did enjoy every day coming here. There was a lot thrown at me quickly, but I’ve been around this game my entire life.

Smith (con’t): Getting to know the guys, systems, daily routines of a head coach was tough probably for the first three weeks. It didn’t take too long to get a handle on what was going on. What I did find is every day, you’re learning something

Smith (con’t): You’re learning something about players, travel schedules, practice schedules, things you don’t think about as an assistant coach.

Smith: We have a locker room full of great people. Guys that looked out for each other all season long [and] grew together. We had some adversity at times that we handled…pretty well. They learned a lot about themselves

Smith (con’t): We had some veterans in the room that helped those young guys to grow. They were positive with them and they kept a really close-knit culture the entire season. There’s a lot of things in that locker room guys should be proud of.

Smith: A lot of guys grew this year. There’s a lot of young guys that did a lot of really good things and had great first years as rookies in a very difficult league. They learned a lot about pro hockey.

 

[GAGLine]

He's barely developed at all in 3 years in the AHL.

Not all players are going to the NHL, he was a 3rd round pick that people started to fawn over and overrate because of a big covid season in the WHL.

Robertson was a 2nd round pick, unfortunately, one in a long line of failed 2nd round picks. Hopefully we have turned the corner with Cuylle and Sykora. Prior to Cuylle in 2020, we have to go back to Stepan in 2008 to find a 2nd round pick who made an impact.

 

[McRanger92]

series of Keegan Jarvis @TheKeeganJarvis tweets of
extensive post-game (post-season) comments from Wolf Pack’s Acting Head Coach Steve Smith

Smith: Losing is never fun. I think the one thing you do as an athlete or a coach is learn how this feels, how terrible a feeling it is, and how deep set it is. This isn’t superficial wounds, this is right to your heart.

Smith: I’m disappointed in the results from tonight. We had a group that worked really hard, and I still believed going into tonight’s game that we could beat the Hershey Bears.

Smith: Right now, I’m looking forward to going home and seeing my kids and grandkids and just digesting the season. The offseason is another world as well. As an assistant coach, I’m working on my handicap. I don’t think I’m gonna be doing that as a head coach.

Smith: You’re truly involved in the outcome of the game every single night, and you live and die by it. There were many nights where I didn’t sleep at all thinking about things I could’ve done differently. I truly enjoyed the process on a daily basis.

Smith: I haven’t thought about the future very much, to tell you the truth. I truly did enjoy every day coming here. There was a lot thrown at me quickly, but I’ve been around this game my entire life.

Smith (con’t): Getting to know the guys, systems, daily routines of a head coach was tough probably for the first three weeks. It didn’t take too long to get a handle on what was going on. What I did find is every day, you’re learning something

Smith (con’t): You’re learning something about players, travel schedules, practice schedules, things you don’t think about as an assistant coach.

Smith: We have a locker room full of great people. Guys that looked out for each other all season long [and] grew together. We had some adversity at times that we handled…pretty well. They learned a lot about themselves

Smith (con’t): We had some veterans in the room that helped those young guys to grow. They were positive with them and they kept a really close-knit culture the entire season. There’s a lot of things in that locker room guys should be proud of.

Smith: A lot of guys grew this year. There’s a lot of young guys that did a lot of really good things and had great first years as rookies in a very difficult league. They learned a lot about pro hockey.

Talks like a guy I want around our youth. 20 years of NHL playing experience. IDK if he had the interim tag but considering he was without a bunch of guys who were penciled into the top of HFD's lineup AND he took over mid-season, he deserves to stay.

 

[bernmeister]

not according to @bernmeister

thank you for the kind mention

Robertson should have been properly developed
obv he was not
whether or not that can be salvaged remains to be seen
but at this pt I would add him + lower pick for a higher pick

 

[Ranger Ric]

Robertson was a 2nd round pick, unfortunately, one in a long line of failed 2nd round picks. Hopefully we have turned the corner with Cuylle and Sykora. Prior to Cuylle in 2020, we have to go back to Stepan in 2008 to find a 2nd round pick who made an impact.

I don't think the issue is second round picks. These picks are projections that may or may not come to fruition. I don't think we would talk about the Rangers being good at 3rd round picks because the team drafted Duclair and Buchnevich or 4th round picks because the team drafted Shesterkin and Graves. It's not completely random but there's a great deal of randomness and projecting involved. You want to see a couple of picks (2-3) a year develop into NHL players and once the players are picked it doesn't matter the round the player was picked. In 2019 the Rangers missed on Robertson but Jones and Edstrom look like pretty good later round picks. That seems to me to be a pretty good draft year for the Rangers.

I can understand picking Robertson when the Rangers did. He's a big kid who's a decent skater. So there were some building blocks. But the offense wasn't great and the hockey sense is not NHL caliber. 2nd round picks are going to have warts. The Rangers took a chance that the offense and hockey sense would develop. Maybe different coaching would have made a difference but I'm skeptical.

My point in raising the Bears commentator comments on Robertson is that if he's seeing problems, it's not a secret around the league and Robertson probably doesn't have much value at this time.

 

[CTTribe73]

I don't think the issue is second round picks. These picks are projections that may or may not come to fruition. I don't think we would talk about the Rangers being good at 3rd round picks because the team drafted Duclair and Buchnevich or 4th round picks because the team drafted Shesterkin and Graves. It's not completely random but there's a great deal of randomness and projecting involved. You want to see a couple of picks (2-3) a year develop into NHL players and once the players are picked it doesn't matter the round the player was picked. In 2019 the Rangers missed on Robertson but Jones and Edstrom look like pretty good later round picks. That seems to me to be a pretty good draft year for the Rangers.

I can understand picking Robertson when the Rangers did. He's a big kid who's a decent skater. So there were some building blocks. But the offense wasn't great and the hockey sense is not NHL caliber. 2nd round picks are going to have warts. The Rangers took a chance that the offense and hockey sense would develop. Maybe different coaching would have made a difference but I'm skeptical.

My point in raising the Bears commentator comments on Robertson is that if he's seeing problems, it's not a secret around the league and Robertson probably doesn't have much value at this time.

Yeah, I think this is correct. Probably neither Robertson nor Henrikson have much if any value remaining, they've been in the A too long and have an accumulated body of work and absence of regular season call ups that indicate they've reached their ceiling. Not all picks are going to hit and that's why it's important to accumulate lottery tickets.

Depending on how the FLA series goes I think there's a chance we could see a lot of Othmann and Berard at MSG next season.

 

[jay from jersey]

Chmelar with the goal from Hollowell and Roobroeck.

He’s going to be a NYR 3rd liner in the near future. Take it to the bank.

hands/size/skating/skill/good hockey sense
Just needs some polish.
He’s got a lot of things going for him already, and I’m happy he bounced back well on his return from a tough injury to get a pro contract

 

[UnSandvich]

Robertson was talked about as a fringe 1st rounder in his draft year, but ended up falling. Sometimes swinging on a faller doesn't work out. Other times it does

 

[Fitzy]

Robertson was talked about as a fringe 1st rounder in his draft year, but ended up falling. Sometimes swinging on a faller doesn't work out. Other times it does

Correct. It was a good selection. He just didn't take the next step.

 

[UnSandvich]

Correct. It was a good selection. He just didn't take the next step.

Similarly, sometimes you pick a riser like a K'Andre Miller or Filip Chytil. Other times its a Kravtsov

 

[kovazub94]

Similarly, sometimes you pick a riser like a K'Andre Miller or Filip Chytil. Other times its a Kravtsov

Did you have to go there

 

[Ranger Ric]

Hartfords Blsck aces:

RANGERS RECALL 13 FROM WOLF PACK | Hartford Wolf Pack

www.hartfordwolfpack.com

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Hartfords Blsck aces:

RANGERS RECALL 13 FROM WOLF PACK | Hartford Wolf Pack

www.hartfordwolfpack.com

I don't watch Hartford games apart from the occasional highlights posted on these boards. Are any of those 13 players capable of being an effective plug in if needed?

 

[nyr2k2]

I don't watch Hartford games apart from the occasional highlights posted on these boards. Are any of those 13 players capable of being an effective plug in if needed?

Anton Blidh has played like 80+ games over many seasons in the NHL. He's a tough, sandpaper, pest-type. He could jump in on the fourth line for a game or two in an emergency.

Alex Belzile has some talent and did ok in half a season for Montreal last year, but it might be somewhat telling that he never got a look during the season.

Tyler Pitlick, we know what he is. "Plug" is definitely the right term for him.

Berard would be an interesting wild card but I doubt they'd ask a guy to make his NHL debut in the ECF or Finals.

On defense, Mackey is more like a #8 but probably would be okay in a sheltered role for a game. They'd probably give Harpur a chance but I don't think he's healthy. Scanlin and particularly Mancini show promise but both are probably too green to ever be considered, unless we lost like 3 guys in one game.

 

[Ranger Ric]

Anton Blidh has played like 80+ games over many seasons in the NHL. He's a tough, sandpaper, pest-type. He could jump in on the fourth line for a game or two in an emergency.

Alex Belzile has some talent and did ok in half a season for Montreal last year, but it might be somewhat telling that he never got a look during the season.

Tyler Pitlick, we know what he is. "Plug" is definitely the right term for him.

Berard would be an interesting wild card but I doubt they'd ask a guy to make his NHL debut in the ECF or Finals.

On defense, Mackey is more like a #8 but probably would be okay in a sheltered role for a game. They'd probably give Harpur a chance but I don't think he's healthy. Scanlin and particularly Mancini show promise but both are probably too green to ever be considered, unless we lost like 3 guys in one game.

I think it is unlikely that any of them get to play. The Rangers already have a 3rd string goalie, Domingue, 2 backup defensemen, Jones and Ruhwedal, and based on last night 3 extra forwards, Edstrom, Brodzinski and Kakko.

What was most interesting to me was not who the Rangers brought up but who the team didn't -- specifically Riley Nash and Mac Hallowell. Nash was one of the most if not most important player on the team when he was healthy. He was an injury scratch the last couple of games and I think the Rangers have shut him down for the year. Hallowell was by far Hartford's best offensive defenseman and while I don't think he is an NHL player not bringing him up sends a negative message to a guy who can be UFA on July 1.

Harpur had started practicing maybe a week ago and the Rangers must think he is well enough to play in an emergency. Mancini is interesting because he played under an ATO and his NHL contract does not begin until next year. This must be a message that the team liked what they saw of him and want to expose him to an NHL playoff environment.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think it is unlikely that any of them get to play. The Rangers already have a 3rd string goalie, Domingue, 2 backup defensemen, Jones and Ruhwedal, and based on last night 3 extra forwards, Edstrom, Brodzinski and Kakko.

What was most interesting to me was not who the Rangers brought up but who the team didn't -- specifically Riley Nash and Mac Hallowell. Nash was one of the most if not most important player on the team when he was healthy. He was an injury scratch the last couple of games and I think the Rangers have shut him down for the year. Hallowell was by far Hartford's best offensive defenseman and while I don't think he is an NHL player not bringing him up sends a negative message to a guy who can be UFA on July 1.

Harpur had started practicing maybe a week ago and the Rangers must think he is well enough to play in an emergency. Mancini is interesting because he played under an ATO and his NHL contract does not begin until next year. This must be a message that the team liked what they saw of him and want to expose him to an NHL playoff environment.

I agree it's highly unlikely any of them play. I was just speaking to the broader question of who might be able to play, if needed in an emergency. As you said, Edstrom and Domingue were the true recalls in case of emergency, and Jones and Ruhwedel were already there. Any of these other guys, it would take a really bad situation for them to get a look.

On Hollowell, that was a surprise. Who knows though, he could be one of those guys who was playing through something and either just needs to rest or have a procedure even. Or maybe they want to move on from him.

 

[cwede]

I think it is unlikely that any of them get to play.

What was most interesting to me was not who the Rangers brought up but who the team didn't -- specifically Riley Nash and Mac Hallowell.

I agree it's highly unlikely any of them play. I was just speaking to the broader question of who might be able to play, if needed in an emergency. ... Any of these other guys, it would take a really bad situation for them to get a look.
On Hollowell, that was a surprise.

My hunch re Hollowell, and Petan, is that it's because they are pending UFAs
Of the Black Aces recalled today, only Pitlick is pending UFA,
and he played 34 for NY, spent >1/2 season with big club
Nash, I assume, must be too hurt to be available any time soon

 

[eco's bones]

Both Henriksson and Robertson are second rounders. They've both developed to the point where they are decent AHL players. It's not nothing and may be enough for now to get the Rangers to offer them both a one year two way deal. We've done this before for instance with Gettinger.

On Bern's point that Robertson wasn't properly developed. What does properly even mean? He came in with Schneider. The Rangers weren't giving to the one something that they didn't give to the other. Some players will only develop so much and there's also how much a player wants it-- how far he's willing to go which is mostly on him. You can only motivate someone so much---they have to have an inner drive. Rempe is a good case in point. Defense is not an easy position to play well and not everyone particularly coming out of the CHL leagues finds the jump to the AHL an easy one.

As far as moving Matthew Robertson I doubt we'd get as much as a 3rd for him. 4th would be great---but it might not even be that much. Right now he hasn't proven nearly enough and the Pack have had some success with young d-men in the last few years---Schneider, Jones, Raddysh and Emberson so his not succeeding as much as those players is a disappointment.

 

[nyr2k2]

Both Henriksson and Robertson are second rounders. They've both developed to the point where they are decent AHL players. It's not nothing and may be enough for now to get the Rangers to offer them both a one year two way deal. We've done this before for instance with Gettinger.

On Bern's point that Robertson wasn't properly developed. What does properly even mean? He came in with Schneider. The Rangers weren't giving to the one something that they didn't give to the other. Some players will only develop so much and there's also how much a player wants it-- how far he's willing to go which is mostly on him. You can only motivate someone so much---they have to have an inner drive. Rempe is a good case in point. Defense is not an easy position to play well and not everyone particularly coming out of the CHL leagues finds the jump to the AHL an easy one.

As far as moving Matthew Robertson I doubt we'd get as much as a 3rd for him. 4th would be great---but it might not even be that much. Right now he hasn't proven nearly enough and the Pack have had some success with young d-men in the last few years---Schneider, Jones, Raddysh and Emberson so his not succeeding as much as those players is a disappointment.

Well said. I've always been an advocate for Robertson until this season, really. He was down there with Schneider, with Jones. Scanlin and Emberson went from somewhat unheralded UDFAs to a guy who is a decent prospect (Scanlin) and a guy who was claimed on waivers and would have played the whole year in the NHL if not for an injury (Emberson). If the Rangers have a player development issue it's not with defensemen.

Sometimes guys just reach the end of their developmental capacity. Literally there are guys who peak at 17 in junior hockey and never get any better at any level. It happens. Robertson was wildly inconsistent as a pro and instead of becoming a good two-way defenseman like I thought he'd become, he's become a guy who is just not notably good at anything in particular. It is what it is. He was a good gamble that, at least for now, appears to have busted.

 

[cwede]

Well said. I've always been an advocate for Robertson until this season, really. He was down there with Schneider, with Jones. Scanlin and Emberson went from somewhat unheralded UDFAs to a guy who is a decent prospect (Scanlin) and a guy who was claimed on waivers and would have played the whole year in the NHL if not for an injury (Emberson). If the Rangers have a player development issue it's not with defensemen.

Sometimes guys just reach the end of their developmental capacity. Literally there are guys who peak at 17 in junior hockey and never get any better at any level. It happens. Robertson was wildly inconsistent as a pro and instead of becoming a good two-way defenseman like I thought he'd become, he's become a guy who is just not notably good at anything in particular. It is what it is. He was a good gamble that, at least for now, appears to have busted.

agree only to a point

first, brief clarification re Emberson,
he was a 3rd round pick of Yotes,
many folks here dismissed him as a throw-in, maybe because Nemeth was such nothing for NYR
But part of the NYR front office, that made that deal, was Mike Grier
(btw i think it's wrong that guys who burn a season after college have that season count for waivers; for burning a year regarding extending, no biggie)
I honestly don't think any other GM woulda claimed Emberson

but re development, i just think many folks are too unrealistically impatient (or I am too optimistic and patient)
yes, more than ever, SOME very young guys accelerate to pro quality very quickly
but for others, it is a process and a journey
look at Luis Gil, now cruising as an ace starter for NYY, but 8 or 9 years after being drafted (but still mid 20's)

my expectations is NYR definitely QO, and keep Robertson and Henriksson (but maybe not Trivigno, but i would)