Prospect Info: Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL)/Maine Mariners (ECHL) Thread: Part XII

[The Crypto Guy]

They are. Just had two clunkers against a good Checkers team.

Hartford is helped by a really good goalie tandem in Shestyorkin/Huska, but sometimes you just poop the bed. Otherwise, Hartford has been a good team so far this season.

Happens.

They were a sub .500 team and last in the Atlantic before they beat the Pack back to back.

 

[Ola]

I thought Hartford was a good team?

The AHL game is very different than the NHL game so its hard to make comparisons, but HFD is a solid team that has depth, and that have gotten them a lot of pts this season. Goaltending has been good, but definitely not "godly" if you get what I mean. HFD don't have many breakdowns and they play a tight defensive game, so from the perspective of how much support the goalies are getting, its high.

But if anyone expect HFD to be a team that hits the ice and takes it to the opponents, nah, that hasn't been the case a single game this season. Some times they had a few pucks go in early and the other team mailed it in, but that is about it.

I also think its important to acknowledge, in relation to how our kids perform down there, that there are very very few instances in a normal AHL game were someone really manage to create Grade A scoring chances. Teams make very little plays with the puck so there are very few passing related turnovers. Since the puck isn't moved around its also really easy to defend. Just stay in your position and the opponents will be kept on the outside.

Then occasionally a D tries to stop a clearing attempt on the blueline and the puck bounces past him and someone gets a breakaway. You get the very odd 2 on 1 or something. Most goals comes from a puck bouncing around in the attacking zone and all of a sudden landing on someone's stick for a tap in, or a goalie is beaten from some distance. Hence games become very special team driven.

My point is just, if you believe that stats=ability it will look like some kids are extremely good or extremely bad in these environments. But at this level, production 5 on 5 can be very limited and will only come if you are in an environment that achieves certain things that aren't easy to achieve. We all love Pajuniemi now. But look at just how many of his goals comes from the exact same position on the ice and predominantly on the PP. What if someone else had that role? Doesn't make Pajuniemi a worse player, but it probably takes away 80% of his production, right? Henriksson is struggling to get into a scoring environment in Allsvenskan. Lias in HFD.

But this is the case all over the hockey world. I've seen a lot of Rögle this season with Edström. Dominic Bokk is playing for them, he has like 2-3 pts on the entire season. Lol, I actually like him, I like what I see. The kid is skilled. But skilled just don't = pts, in all environments. Fairly low scoring teams, always struggling to get goals 5 on 5, 1-2 a night if that, and you don't get a goto role on the PP. All of a sudden you have 1 pts in 10 games.

 

[wafflepadsave]

The AHL game is very different than the NHL game so its hard to make comparisons, but HFD is a solid team that has depth, and that have gotten them a lot of pts this season. Goaltending has been good, but definitely not "godly" if you get what I mean. HFD don't have many breakdowns and they play a tight defensive game, so from the perspective of how much support the goalies are getting, its high.

But if anyone expect HFD to be a team that hits the ice and takes it to the opponents, nah, that hasn't been the case a single game this season. Some times they had a few pucks go in early and the other team mailed it in, but that is about it.

I also think its important to acknowledge, in relation to how our kids perform down there, that there are very very few instances in a normal AHL game were someone really manage to create Grade A scoring chances. Teams make very little plays with the puck so there are very few passing related turnovers. Since the puck isn't moved around its also really easy to defend. Just stay in your position and the opponents will be kept on the outside.

Then occasionally a D tries to stop a clearing attempt on the blueline and the puck bounces past him and someone gets a breakaway. You get the very odd 2 on 1 or something. Most goals comes from a puck bouncing around in the attacking zone and all of a sudden landing on someone's stick for a tap in, or a goalie is beaten from some distance. Hence games become very special team driven.

My point is just, if you believe that stats=ability it will look like some kids are extremely good or extremely bad in these environments. But at this level, production 5 on 5 can be very limited and will only come if you are in an environment that achieves certain things that aren't easy to achieve. We all love Pajuniemi now. But look at just how many of his goals comes from the exact same position on the ice and predominantly on the PP. What if someone else had that role? Doesn't make Pajuniemi a worse player, but it probably takes away 80% of his production, right? Henriksson is struggling to get into a scoring environment in Allsvenskan. Lias in HFD.

But this is the case all over the hockey world. I've seen a lot of Rögle this season with Edström. Dominic Bokk is playing for them, he has like 2-3 pts on the entire season. Lol, I actually like him, I like what I see. The kid is skilled. But skilled just don't = pts, in all environments. Fairly low scoring teams, always struggling to get goals 5 on 5, 1-2 a night if that, and you don't get a goto role on the PP. All of a sudden you have 1 pts in 10 games.

Yeah I was wondering if pajun’s offense would translate over here. If I was watching, I would try to identify if the prospect does anything dynamic. A lot of goals scored with nobody on him does little for me. Poor skating ability is a big no no for one.

 

[dshea19]

I was at the Checkers game last night. 7-1... Anyway, I will give a few thoughts on what I saw. Kravtsov: Oozes talent. His passing and decision making were far better than other players for the Wolfpack. There was one pass he made on a breakout where he didn't even look at the intended recipient and hit him on the tape. Totally threw off the forechecker. Took lots of passes in his skates without missing a beat and created some dangerous chances out of nothing. Unfortunately for him, lots of sticks in the way, especially on one shot which might have been a goal. He looked really solid and was skating hard and working hard on the back check. He will be up after the trade deadline. Just needs a little time. I wouldn't worry too much about his stats because of who he is playing with.

On that issue: the rest of the team looked gassed and sloppy. Couldn't make even fair passes. Lots of passes to empty space, or behind players, or directly into a defender. Others weren't paying attention and totally missed some good passes as they had their heads down while circling on the breakout. Rykov was engaged but the team defense was so poor that it was difficult to really evaluate him. Lias did some things well, but also made some bad choices with the puck. He is going to need time. Having better players might help but there are few of them on this team. Not much sustained offense and when there was, no real shooters to take advantage of opportunities they were presented with.

Granted, this was a really bad game and not the best measuring stick for any member of the Wolfpack. However, you can tell Kravy is far better than anyone on his team. His stats may suffer since he may not have the players to convert on his creativity. We will see. DiGiuseppe is the one guy that seems like he has the shot to convert on some of these passes.

Keane is going to need more time. Some good stuff, some hot potato stuff. Shesty gave up three, but only one of those would I put on him. Huska did not have a good night at all. His team didn't help, but there were shots that he should have had.

Summation: Kravy = a little time to percolate and BAM! Lias = I was hoping for more and I was kind of meh. Rykov = not enough to really tell. Keane = more time. Maybe 1 or 2 more years. Shesty = not concerned since the rest of the team was disengaged garbage in front.

 

[nyr2k2]

Dmowski back to Maine.

 

[Tawnos]

I was at the Checkers game last night. 7-1... Anyway, I will give a few thoughts on what I saw. Kravtsov: Oozes talent. His passing and decision making were far better than other players for the Wolfpack. There was one pass he made on a breakout where he didn't even look at the intended recipient and hit him on the tape. Totally threw off the forechecker. Took lots of passes in his skates without missing a beat and created some dangerous chances out of nothing. Unfortunately for him, lots of sticks in the way, especially on one shot which might have been a goal. He looked really solid and was skating hard and working hard on the back check. He will be up after the trade deadline. Just needs a little time. I wouldn't worry too much about his stats because of who he is playing with.

On that issue: the rest of the team looked gassed and sloppy. Couldn't make even fair passes. Lots of passes to empty space, or behind players, or directly into a defender. Others weren't paying attention and totally missed some good passes as they had their heads down while circling on the breakout. Rykov was engaged but the team defense was so poor that it was difficult to really evaluate him. Lias did some things well, but also made some bad choices with the puck. He is going to need time. Having better players might help but there are few of them on this team. Not much sustained offense and when there was, no real shooters to take advantage of opportunities they were presented with.

Granted, this was a really bad game and not the best measuring stick for any member of the Wolfpack. However, you can tell Kravy is far better than anyone on his team. His stats may suffer since he may not have the players to convert on his creativity. We will see. DiGiuseppe is the one guy that seems like he has the shot to convert on some of these passes.

Keane is going to need more time. Some good stuff, some hot potato stuff. Shesty gave up three, but only one of those would I put on him. Huska did not have a good night at all. His team didn't help, but there were shots that he should have had.

Summation: Kravy = a little time to percolate and BAM! Lias = I was hoping for more and I was kind of meh. Rykov = not enough to really tell. Keane = more time. Maybe 1 or 2 more years. Shesty = not concerned since the rest of the team was disengaged garbage in front.

I agree entirely with this assessment.

One thing about Keane... I noticed him trying to force passes a lot last night. Could have been just the night.

Also, to the bolded... you could HEAR they weren't on their game (at least from where I was sitting on the Wolf Pack shoot twice). There's a cracking sound that the puck hitting the stick makes when the timing is off. It's a strange thing to think about, but it makes sense. Last night, I wondered if it was the acoustics of the place, so I tried to listen for it with the Checkers too. Obviously, it's going to happen on occasion, but it was like 8/10 passes the Wolf Pack were receiving were making that sound, while most of the Checkers passes weren't.

 

[JimmyG89]

The team just played 8 games in 13 days. That's a lot of hockey in a short period of time. NHLers are pretty gassed at the end of a 3 in 4 nights. They just did a 4 in 6 and a 5 in 7. Also, Charlotte has had a lot more time off recently. They played two this weekend and these two like Hartford, but no weekday games last week. Also, their travel is not like the NHL players get.

It's not surprising the Kravtsov looks like he is their best player: He's the most rested of them. The next couple of days should do them well. Holiday break will help too. They have 1 game left before Christmas.

 

[Kovalev27]

Yeah I think they’re gassed. They’re a much better team than this. Their structure should protect them from games like these and from what I watched the other night and from what I hear about last night they abandoned it completely. See what they look like with a few days off.

 

[Mandar]

Is Geertson always this bad?

In a horrible overall team effort last night, this guy actually stood out as the most awful of all of them. His game brought back memories I thought I had buried long ago of the legendary Roman Ndur.

 

[Tawnos]

In a horrible overall team effort last night, this guy actually stood out as the most awful of all of them. His game brought back memories I thought I had buried long ago of the legendary Roman Ndur.

Hey, he was great for the Danbury Trashers.

 

[dshea19]

I agree entirely with this assessment.

One thing about Keane... I noticed him trying to force passes a lot last night. Could have been just the night.

Also, to the bolded... you could HEAR they weren't on their game (at least from where I was sitting on the Wolf Pack shoot twice). There's a cracking sound that the puck hitting the stick makes when the timing is off. It's a strange thing to think about, but it makes sense. Last night, I wondered if it was the acoustics of the place, so I tried to listen for it with the Checkers too. Obviously, it's going to happen on occasion, but it was like 8/10 passes the Wolf Pack were receiving were making that sound, while most of the Checkers passes weren't.

I sat in the same section. 130. I brought my family and some of their friends. 10 of us had a row to ourselves. Really good angle to see what is going on. High but close.

 

[Tawnos]

I sat in the same section. 130. I brought my family and some of their friends. 10 of us had a row to ourselves. Really good angle to see what is going on. High but close.

I was lower down in 130.

In fact, if you noticed a guy sitting by himself right next to the tunnel with a dark grey cap, leather jacket and hoodie... that was me.

 

[cwede]

not glad they got clobbered twice,

but maybe it helps temper expectations for this team and these guys
it takes time to become a good team, and it takes time to become an effective consistent pro player
the first 15 games of the year may be the easiest to dominate, as each minor league team's roster and identity come together at varying pace

Pack's early success was a good thing, and those points are 'in the bank,'
but now they are reminded they gotta do it hard and well every night

and maybe the folks who think Shesty is fully ready, to replace Hank or Georgie,
take a breath, and realize this time playing these games and months in AHL are essential
to him becoming the top NHL goalie it is expected he will become

 

[dshea19]

I was lower down in 130.

In fact, if you noticed a guy sitting by himself right next to the tunnel with a dark grey cap, leather jacket and hoodie... that was me.

I should have noticed you since you were probably wearing the same look of disgust I had. I was on row K, so you probably had my entire crew pass by you at some point. Probably even blocked your view for a moment.

 

[Tawnos]

I should have noticed you since you were probably wearing the same look of disgust I had. I was on row K, so you probably had my entire crew pass by you at some point. Probably even blocked your view for a moment.

Did you get there in the middle of a period? Because if so, I remember that

 

[dshea19]

Did you get there in the middle of a period? Because if so, I remember that

Yup. Middle of the first. I am about 2 hours away from Charlotte and we had an unexpected hang-up before we could leave. Then the will call line was jammed. Took longer than it should have. I like to get there to watch warm-ups but that became out of the question.

 

[Tawnos]

Yup. Middle of the first. I am about 2 hours away from Charlotte and we had an unexpected hang-up before we could leave. Then the will call line was jammed. Took longer than it should have. I like to get there to watch warm-ups but that became out of the question.

The will call line looked jammed at about 610 when I got to the arena.

I think you missed out on an O'Reilly Auto Parts coupon that our section got when the Checkers scored first... if you can really call it missing out for $5 off a purchase of $10 or more.

 

[dshea19]

The will call line looked jammed at about 610 when I got to the arena.

I think you missed out on an O'Reilly Auto Parts coupon that our section got when the Checkers scored first... if you can really call it missing out for $5 off a purchase of $10 or more.

Oh no. $5 off of overpriced car parts. How will I ever get over that. (I wish there was a "monotone" font.)

 

[effen]

The will call line looked jammed at about 610 when I got to the arena.

I think you missed out on an O'Reilly Auto Parts coupon that our section got when the Checkers scored first... if you can really call it missing out for $5 off a purchase of $10 or more.

I'm in Clemson. Let's do a game sometime. Be fun on the bun.

 

[Tawnos]

I'm in Clemson. Let's do a game sometime. Be fun on the bun.

Wolf Pack are back in February.

 

[ElLeetch]

On that issue: the rest of the team looked gassed and sloppy. Couldn't make even fair passes. Lots of passes to empty space, or behind players, or directly into a defender. Others weren't paying attention and totally missed some good passes as they had their heads down while circling on the breakout. Rykov was engaged but the team defense was so poor that it was difficult to really evaluate him. Lias did some things well, but also made some bad choices with the puck. He is going to need time. Having better players might help but there are few of them on this team. Not much sustained offense and when there was, no real shooters to take advantage of opportunities they were presented with.

My wife, who is only very casually into hockey, said the 'pack just looked tired. they were getting outworked all night. always a step behind.

and as far as the passing goes, they way too often tried to throw home-run passes down the ice that were either (a) knocked down (b) off target or (c) the forward was not ready to receive the pass.

Kravtsov definitely had true talent, or more so, the rest of the forward crop demonstrated little to no talent. just not a high-skill group.

FWIW, I counted maybe ~20 NY jerseys in the crowd last night.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

In a horrible overall team effort last night, this guy actually stood out as the most awful of all of them. His game brought back memories I thought I had buried long ago of the legendary Roman Ndur.

That takes me back to when I was tending bar and playing in bands. I was behind the bar and put the game on and my bartending partner who was African American was astounded that a "brutha was playing hockey" (his words).

 

[Ola]

I agree entirely with this assessment.

One thing about Keane... I noticed him trying to force passes a lot last night. Could have been just the night.

Also, to the bolded... you could HEAR they weren't on their game (at least from where I was sitting on the Wolf Pack shoot twice). There's a cracking sound that the puck hitting the stick makes when the timing is off. It's a strange thing to think about, but it makes sense. Last night, I wondered if it was the acoustics of the place, so I tried to listen for it with the Checkers too. Obviously, it's going to happen on occasion, but it was like 8/10 passes the Wolf Pack were receiving were making that sound, while most of the Checkers passes weren't.

Keane’s production has been fantastic and he makes many good plays, but I don’t think he is getting raving reviews internally. He has had his fair share of issues all games I’ve seen him in. He isn’t simply always in control of things.

So looking great and loves the progress, but I think he is pretty far from knocking on the door in the NHL despite his stats.

 

[nyr2k2]

Yeah I've always been lower on Keane than most. I haven't seen enough Hartford games to really form s concrete opinion this year. It's like he's a poor man's DeAngelo in that he's great at making things happen, but still has a lot to work on. Tony's skills are at such a high level that he's a net positive, easily. Not sure Keane is totally there. Or how everything will translate to the NHL.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yeah I've always been lower on Keane than most. I haven't seen enough Hartford games to really form s concrete opinion this year. It's like he's a poor man's DeAngelo in that he's great at making things happen, but still has a lot to work on. Tony's skills are at such a high level that he's a net positive, easily. Not sure Keane is totally there. Or how everything will translate to the NHL.

So you're not Keane on him?