Prospect Info: Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL)/Maine Mariners (ECHL) Thread: Part XI

[GoAwayPanarin]

This is the first time I’ve heard that take. And they hired a new WHL scout last year and picked Matthew Robertson in the 2nd, seems like they’ve already taken steps towards better scouting

Virtually their entire amateur staff has been turned over since 2015.

 

[Leetch3]

Do you believe Gordie on that one? Or do you think he was just blowing smoke? I don't always agree with his draft approach, but to actually have Gropp sixth would just be an otherworldly misjudgement. That's not to say he definitely wasn't being genuine. Just seems crazy to me. Like you can point to McIlrath and I could at least understand the logic, the projection. Gropp was never that good.

you should never believe any post draft comments...every year every team gets the player they wanted at every pick and had that guy ranked way higher than everyone else. its all complete BS. if it wasn't said before the draft I don't believe it...

for example way back in the 2001 draft when we had the 10th pick, at the draft party at MSG, before the draft started whoever was the host (might have been JD, don't remember) talked about how the rangers have 9 guys they really like and the next guy on their list is a russian dman fedor tyutin...so then when they ended up taking him at 40 I believe the rangers had him that high. but 99.999999% is all bs

 

[Leetch3]

Virtually their entire amateur staff has been turned over since 2015.

this doesn't get alot of attention cause there is limited info about these moves and what each guy really does...but its a huge part of the rebuild. the rangers clearly identified flaws and weaknesses in scouting, player development etc and have taken great strides to try to address and improve them...we won't know for a few more years how successful it is but at least they are trying...

 

[Ranger Ric]

Today's ECHL Transaction page says that Laval, with whom Maine has a secondary affiliation, assigned defenseman Ryan Coulkin to Maine. To clear a roster spot Maine traded defenseman Johnny Coughlin to Norfolk, presumably for future considerations. With Gropp sent to Maine Maine will have to clear another spot by moving an existing player to the reserve list, placing another player on IR or making another trade.

Maine places forward, Greg Chase, and defenseman, Josh Couturier, on injured reserve and adds to the active roster defenseman, Jeff Taylor, who was sent down by Hartford and Ty Ronning from the reserve list. While Ronning is eligible to play being on the 21 one man active list Maine will have to scratch two players to reach the 19 man playing list. Dmowski was one of the scratches in Maine's first game.

 

[Joey Bones]

Brandon Pirri also has a nice shot and that is all he has. similar players

Pirri is in the NHL and playing well in Vegas....

 

[Joey Bones]

Do you believe Gordie on that one? Or do you think he was just blowing smoke? I don't always agree with his draft approach, but to actually have Gropp sixth would just be an otherworldly misjudgement. That's not to say he definitely wasn't being genuine. Just seems crazy to me. Like you can point to McIlrath and I could at least understand the logic, the projection. Gropp was never that good.

In fairness to @Raspewtin, Gordie did mention in one of the interviews post 2015 draft that NYR thought Gropp was the 6th best shooter in the class. I don't think it was the 6th best forward and certainly not the 6th best player on that draft.

But again, this is what it is with every draft class. Projections and if a player can develop into those projections. This happens for every team in any league or sport. Gropp is a misfire on all accounts (even when he was drafted), but who knows where development could've gone for him. I remember wanting Roope Hintz or JFK at that pick....

 

[nyr2k2]

In fairness to @Raspewtin, Gordie did mention in one of the interviews post 2015 draft that NYR thought Gropp was the 6th best shooter in the class. I don't think it was the 6th best forward and certainly not the 6th best player on that draft.

But again, this is what it is with every draft class. Projections and if a player can develop into those projections. This happens for every team in any league or sport. Gropp is a misfire on all accounts (even when he was drafted), but who knows where development could've gone for him. I remember wanting Roope Hintz or JFK at that pick....

No I get it, I know Gordie said that. That's why I asked him if he believed Gordie, or thought it was Gordie blowing smoke, pumping up his pick. FWIW it was reported that we had him sixth among all forwards, according to Clark. I don't remember the actual quote, but that's what was reported.

 

[Raspewtin]

Do you believe Gordie on that one? Or do you think he was just blowing smoke? I don't always agree with his draft approach, but to actually have Gropp sixth would just be an otherworldly misjudgement. That's not to say he definitely wasn't being genuine. Just seems crazy to me. Like you can point to McIlrath and I could at least understand the logic, the projection. Gropp was never that good.

I don't believe him I believe it was blowing smoke but I still wouldn't be shocked that if in actuality they had Gropp rated highly. I could believe them having him rated, say, a first rounder if anything which is still a gross misjudgement.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I still get a good chuckle at the 6th best forward comment considering that draft had McDavid, Eichel, DStrome, and Marner go 1-4 with guys like Timo Meier, Rantanen, Debrusk, and Kyle Connor also go in the first round. This is also excluding other highly ranked prospects at the time like Zacha, Konecny, Boeser, Colin White, and Roslovic.

I hate drafting in hindsight, but it's a really rough look when your only viable prospect from a loaded draft ended up being a project goaltender you took in the 7th. Good thing they've turned over a big chunk of the scouting staff since then

 

[offdacrossbar]

Do you believe Gordie on that one? Or do you think he was just blowing smoke? I don't always agree with his draft approach, but to actually have Gropp sixth would just be an otherworldly misjudgement. That's not to say he definitely wasn't being genuine. Just seems crazy to me. Like you can point to McIlrath and I could at least understand the logic, the projection. Gropp was never that good.

gordie clark has had his share of absolute misses. mcilrath and gropp being right at the top.

the other names are well documented.

mcilrath was all sizzle no steak. hoping someone who's big and mean develops hockey skill isn't sound draft strategy. ryan gropp was a one trick pony and another kid lacking true hockey player smarts.

never was a fan of his. theyve been better the last 3 years for sure.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I’d like to point out that i still think Robin Kovacs was a great pick, he just had a personal tragedy that really messed up his game for a while and at a crucial point in his career. What happened there was unfortunate but not for lack of skill.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I still get a good chuckle at the 6th best forward comment considering that draft had McDavid, Eichel, DStrome, and Marner go 1-4 with guys like Timo Meier, Rantanen, Debrusk, and Kyle Connor also go in the first round. This is also excluding other highly ranked prospects at the time like Zacha, Konecny, Boeser, Colin White, and Roslovic.

I hate drafting in hindsight, but it's a really rough look when your only viable prospect from a loaded draft ended up being a project goaltender you took in the 7th. Good thing they've turned over a big chunk of the scouting staff since then

oh and cam fowler hasn't been on the ice for a goal against yet this season.

yeah, that cam fowler that no one wanted when gordie chose dylan mcilrath.

atleast tarasenko and kusnetsov havent won anything....

 

[nyr2k2]

oh and cam fowler hasn't been on the ice for a goal against yet this season.

yeah, that cam fowler that no one wanted when gordie chose dylan mcilrath.

atleast tarasenko and kusnetsov havent won anything....

Everyone hated the McIlrath pick, even if they weren't super high on Fowler. Even people like me who came to be okay with the player (not the pick) still hated McIlrath at the time.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Everyone hated the McIlrath pick, even if they weren't super high on Fowler. Even people like me who came to be okay with the player (not the pick) still hated McIlrath at the time.

gordie clark cost this franchise with his reach picks.

the " I'm smarter than everyone else" component to his personality back then still irks me to this day.

imagine where we might be if he had just taken the next BPA with the mci and gropp picks.

 

[LeetchisGod]

gordie clark cost this franchise with his reach picks.

the " I'm smarter than everyone else" component to his personality back then still irks me to this day.

imagine where we might be if he had just taken the next BPA with the mci and gropp picks.

What's worse is that he hasn't been fired.

 

[nyr2k2]

gordie clark cost this franchise with his reach picks.

the " I'm smarter than everyone else" component to his personality back then still irks me to this day.

imagine where we might be if he had just taken the next BPA with the mci and gropp picks.

I will never forgive the organization for the McIlrath pick.

The Gropp pick was different. At 41 you probably have 30 teams with 15 different BPAs on their board. It is what it is--bad scouting. But it's not like Gropp was viewed as a fifth-round guy; pretty much everyone had him on the board ranked 10-20 spots lower. So it was a "reach" in round two, which half of the team's teams are guilty of each year. Everyone has "their guys" that they'll reach for here.

Who did we miss out on? The two common names were Sprong, who while better than Gropp, looks like a bust, and Greenway, who hasn't done much to date. Some wanted JFK and he's already back in Sweden. Other people will go back and look at the board and say Dunn! Cirelli! Malgin! But that's just disingenuous hindsight. No one wanted those guys at the time. Maybe one or two people, but they weren't serious projections for us at 41.

The McIlrath pick set back the organization. The Gropp pick was just a second round pick that didn't work out, like the vast majority of them. They shouldn't be lumped together.

 

[True Blue]

I hate drafting in hindsight, but it's a really rough look when your only viable prospect from a loaded draft ended up being a project goaltender you took in the 7th.

I hate it as well, but there are some things that you KNOW are not right. Jessiman and McLrath come to mind. Others you can see logic, like Lundmark. Some you may disagree with but also understand (I was pounding the table for Dobson, but the pick was Kravstov). But there are picks that happen, when you look and just shake your head in disgust.

 

[UnSandvich]

I will never forgive the organization for the McIlrath pick.

The Gropp pick was different. At 41 you probably have 30 teams with 15 different BPAs on their board. It is what it is--bad scouting. But it's not like Gropp was viewed as a fifth-round guy; pretty much everyone had him on the board ranked 10-20 spots lower. So it was a "reach" in round two, which half of the team's teams are guilty of each year. Everyone has "their guys" that they'll reach for here.

Who did we miss out on? The two common names were Sprong, who while better than Gropp, looks like a bust, and Greenway, who hasn't done much to date. Some wanted JFK and he's already back in Sweden. Other people will go back and look at the board and say Dunn! Cirelli! Malgin! But that's just disingenuous hindsight. No one wanted those guys at the time. Maybe one or two people, but they weren't serious projections for us at 41.

The McIlrath pick set back the organization. The Gropp pick was just a second round pick that didn't work out, like the vast majority of them. They shouldn't be lumped together.

Sprong or Kylington were the two big names i remember

 

[BKGooner]

I hate it as well, but there are some things that you KNOW are not right. Jessiman and McLrath come to mind. Others you can see logic, like Lundmark. Some you may disagree with but also understand (I was pounding the table for Dobson, but the pick was Kravstov). But there are picks that happen, when you look and just shake your head in disgust.

Brendl? Malhotra? Not taking Bossy? Twice in the same first round? You can dissect the hell out of anything in hindsight. The Rangers historically draft poorly. The last few years have been a godsend with the number of players they have found in later rounds. When they have drafted well, the team has had success (shocker). Let's hope we get to see some success soon and we are all not shaking our heads and adding to the internal list of blown first round picks.

 

[effen]

He got Lemieux, Panarin, Fox, and Trouba for 6 weeks of Kevin Hayes, Pionk, and two 2nds in the last 6 months but yeah let's fire Gorton for Ryan Gropp

Lol

 

[Leetch3]

He got Lemieux, Panarin, Fox, and Trouba for 6 weeks of Kevin Hayes, Pionk, and two 2nds in the last 6 months but yeah let's fire Gorton for Ryan Gropp

Lol

I think they want Gordie Clark fired not Jeff Gorton

 

[effen]

I think they want Gordie Clark fired not Jeff Gorton

Don't let facts get in the way of a snappy post.

 

[Fireonk]

2009 highest ranked player according to https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/the-hockey-news-2009-draft-prospect-rankings - Jordan Schroeder. By not going BPA we took Kreider.

2011 - https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/top-10-prospect-rankings-for-2011-nhl-draft - Joel Armia instead of our pick JT Miller.

2012 - https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-draft-top30-prospects/ - Sebastian Collberg instead of Brady Skjei

So yeah, lets just always go BPA...

I just picked the first source I saw when googling rankings from that year, obviously there will be a difference in opinion across the board. Every single team has had misses.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

gordie clark has had his share of absolute misses. mcilrath and gropp being right at the top.

the other names are well documented.

mcilrath was all sizzle no steak. hoping someone who's big and mean develops hockey skill isn't sound draft strategy. ryan gropp was a one trick pony and another kid lacking true hockey player smarts.

never was a fan of his. theyve been better the last 3 years for sure.

When Gropp goes to the net, he puts up points. Tough to get to the net when you’re 10lbs short of where you need to be for your height. He needs ECHL hockey to stay fresh, but he needs to put the feedbag on and live in the gym.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Gropp suspended by HFD