Happy to be first in NHL?

[Michelangelo]

I really appreciate that all opinions are welcomed here.

But... we must admit that collectively, we have have been quite productive in terms of "critical opinions" these past few months. And they are not all that diverse. A lot of same dead horse beating, if I may say so.

 

[Born in 1909]

Your idea of enjoyment is different from other peoples'.

Why can't you understand that?

Some people enjoy critiquing the games, whether they win or lose. It's part of their enjoyment of the game.

That's their business, not yours.

I will never understand people making posts to complain about other people complaining. It's the most bizarre thing ever.

Some people love their problems & they love big drama too.

Met a girl once who went on about her various problems for hours.

And one point I realized that without them she had nothing going on.

The 'problems' were her best friends.

(A semi-irelevant story, but whatever)

Truth: Some of the (more extreme) Hab fanbase would complain right up until the Cup was lifted at centre ice in June... and possibly afterwards.

"Yeah we won, but __________"

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Some people love their problems & they love big drama too.

Met a girl once who went on about her various problems for hours.

And one point I realized that without them she had nothing going on.

The 'problems' were her best friends.

(A semi-irelevant story, but whatever)

Truth: Some of the (more extreme) Hab fanbase would complain right up until the Cup was lifted at centre ice in June... and possibly afterwards.

"Yeah we won, but __________"

Except we haven't won jack yet. And that's the problem... this coach could very well end up costing us a cup.

We'll see how this goes down. I think we have a good enough team to win a Championship. If we go on a run where we can't score and we've got Davey sucking up PP minutes and we find ourselves eliminated then this coach deserves to be shredded on these boards. Reality is that he's done a horrible job.

Our record has nothing to do with him. ANY coach could come in here and make us bottom third and let Price save the day. He's done absolutely nothing to help us as far as I'm concerned.

Great that we're in first. Great that we can win while playing badly. And if we win a cup playing this way I won't care. But if we lose and play badly then this coach (and more importantly the GM) have something to answer for. There's no excuse for what's going on right now. I don't care about the record.

 

[Yep]

Well, we see a lot of the same mistakes being made by the coach over and over. What do you want posters to do? Pretend it's not happening?

It IS happening. We continue to play bad systems, run bad specials teams and make bad roster moves. We continue to put up bad numbers and rely on goaltending for wins.

You call it "beating a dead horse"... that's only the case if it's something that happened in the past but has now changed. That's not the case. We continue to make the same mistakes over and over. Don't expect people to just gloss over these moves. Not sure why you'd expect diversity in these criticisms either. It's uniform because the coach's mistakes have been so obvious. Playing DD on the first is flat out stupid, of course everyone's going to jump on him for that. Why wouldn't they?

I'm not complaing, just observing (shouldn't have use dead horse beating - it's more hitting the same nail over again).

A lot of our collective posting energy is spent on Michel Therrien and David Desharnais.

And with a narrower spectrum of subjects, point of views are bound to be repeated. And they are.

You can't deny that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm not complaing, just observing (shouldn't have use dead horse beating - it's more hitting the same nail over again).

He keeps making the same mistakes over and over. So YES you're going to read the same complaints.

A lot of our collective posting energy is spent on Michel Therrien and David Desharnais.

And with a narrower spectrum of subjects, point of views are bound to be repeated. And they are.

You can't deny that.

I don't. There's good reason for those arguments to be repeated here. Fans are passionate about this team, we've got a real shot at a cup and our coach is sabotaging our chances. That's something to be upset about. We're needlessly handicapping ourselves and it could cost us a championship.

Point to the record all you want, it isn't going to help us in the playoffs.

 

[Rapala]

I really appreciate that all opinions are welcomed here.

But... we must admit that collectively, we have have been quite productive in terms of "critical opinions" these past few months. And they are not all that diverse. A lot of same dead horse beating, if I may say so.

I watched a lot of Hockey that looked like a dead horse this year.
I see many many posts quantifying our position and nothing else.
No explanation with regards to the game play or strategy or system that has us out front.
Many claiming Price is part of our team and is expected to be God.
That Therrien is clearly the best coach in the world.
On the flip side i see a ton of posts with in depth analysis telling us in effect we are cheating.
We are not being honest with ourselves in terms of our team's position.

If someone can take the time to explain what makes our current system is so great other than being at or near the top in points, I'd love to hear it.
Because honestly I feel like we are flying in the face of conventional wisdom.

 

[RandR]

Well, we see a lot of the same mistakes being made by the coach over and over. What do you want posters to do? Pretend it's not happening?

It IS happening. We continue to play bad systems, run bad specials teams and make bad roster moves. We continue to put up bad numbers and rely on goaltending for wins.

You call it "beating a dead horse"... that's only the case if it's something that happened in the past but has now changed. That's not the case. We continue to make the same mistakes over and over. Don't expect people to just gloss over these moves. Not sure why you'd expect diversity in these criticisms either. It's uniform because the coach's mistakes have been so obvious. Playing DD on the first is flat out stupid, of course everyone's going to jump on him for that. Why wouldn't they?

Fine. So, in your opinion, the same mistakes keep being made over and over again. Bugs you and a few others on this board to no end obviously because you feel compelled to repeatedly tell everyone else who cares to look at this team board.

If you work for a living, do you make the same complaints to your co-workers every day about your boss? Or if you go to school, do you make the same complaints about your profs/teachers to your classmates every day? Hopefully not, because very few people want to hear the same criticisms over and over and over.

Too many times on this board threads start off with a potentially interesting OP but get taken over for pages at a time by the same complaints. You know the ones... "Therrien is a lousy coach", "DD should not be on the 1st line", "it's only because of Price".

Sorry if I picked this post in particular as I don't like to single out one person, but it's annoying for some of us. To the point where it's not worth even bothering to post. And so usually I don't.

To answer the OP, I am happy the Habs are at the top of the league. And I am going to enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[DangerDave]

I watched a lot of Hockey that looked like a dead horse this year.
I see many many posts quantifying our position and nothing else.
No explanation with regards to the game play or strategy or system that has us out front.
Many claiming Price is part of our team and is expected to be God.
That Therrien is clearly the best coach in the world.
On the flip side i see a ton of posts with in depth analysis telling us in effect we are cheating.
We are not being honest with ourselves in terms of our team's position.

If someone can take the time to explain what makes our current system is so great other than being at or near the top in points, I'd love to hear it.
Because honestly I feel like we are flying in the face of conventional wisdom.

Well I can't tell you why it is good because it just isn't but if you want an analysis of the system, I found a very good article here. I would explain it but it would take forever to type and I think that the article does a nice job.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/a...95/are-the-montreal-canadiens-true-contenders

Essentially we are not a good possession team. Our defense is very hermetic in its own zone allowing the opposition more room to play along the boards and take shots. That is not necessarily a bad thing though since Price is excellent and as long as he sees the puck he will likely save it. I think its nice having Petry though as I've noticed that he has not yet completely adapted to the system and he often tracks down the puck and pressures the other team's offense thanks to his speed. It has certainly added a new dynamic and truth be told, I hope he does not adapt to the system

Neutral zone is where I believe the team struggles the most. They simply have a hard time getting the puck into the offensive zone. The players are told to dump the puck in but not forecheck all that much which often just ends up with the other team regaining possession. Most of the time they send in one player to try and retrieve the puck. Problem is that our wingers are either very small and soft or they are slow. That is why I believe Weise is so good for us though. He is one of the few players who can forecheck like this successfully.

Offensively, the canadiens rely heavily on the defensemen. That is fine but they are becoming one dimensional. The habs essentially move the puck along the boards until they think they can get it back to a dman. Problem is that all the players are on the board leaving the defensemen as the most obvious threat. Teams are catching on more and more. I would like the forewards to simply direct the puck low on net more often and crash the net. I'd also like to see them overload the one side while leaving a man in the high slot more often. The habs often get trapped behind the net leading to off man rushes because they are deep and playing behind the net.

The habs do not have a good system and it has led them to rely on stellar goaltending and rush opportunities to score. Good thing they have a very good roster.

 

[Brainiac]

I'm not complaing, just observing (shouldn't have use dead horse beating - it's more hitting the same nail over again).

A lot of our collective posting energy is spent on Michel Therrien and David Desharnais.

And with a narrower spectrum of subjects, point of views are bound to be repeated. And they are.

You can't deny that.

First of all, I'm with you Yep. Yes, this is a discussion board and yes we all enjoy exchanging thoughts and opinions, even if it gets a little heated at times. I'm probably quite the culprit in that regard. But it's true that the negative energy is a little strange given what the team is achieving.

The thing is, our fanbase is not delusional. Years of sucking have made us a very critical fanbase and yes, even with the record, this team has some serious shortcomings. And no, I'm not talking about Bergevin doing online shoping and having some serious shorts coming.


All in all, I'd say it would be better if we all asked ourselves this one question: is that post of mine bringing anything new to the conversation? If the answer is no, modify your post so that the answer is 'yes'... or just don't post.

And next time, I'll bring a teddy bear so we can all hold it and put our feelings into it.

 

[Rapala]

Well I can't tell you why it is good because it just isn't but if you want an analysis of the system, I found a very good article here. I would explain it but it would take forever to type and I think that the article does a nice job.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/a...95/are-the-montreal-canadiens-true-contenders

Thank You Man...
I have read that and have also noted many of your salient points in previous posts.
Braniac actually expressed what I feel best.
The questioning of our play which is looked upon as negativity is a direct result of having a large experienced fanbase. Many who could care less about points (other than making the dance) and more about putting together consistent periods of strong hockey. Knowing full well what a Championship run entails.

 

[DangerDave]

Thank You Man...
I have read that and have also noted many of your salient points in previous posts.
Braniac actually expressed what I feel best.
The questioning of our play which is looked upon as negativity is a direct result of having a large experienced fanbase. Many who could care less about points (other than making the dance) and more about putting together consistent periods of strong hockey. Knowing full well what a Championship run entails.

No problem. I have edited my post to include my analysis of our play if you'd like to read.

These are just my observations and I'd love to hear what you have to say about it as well.

 

[Hoople]

Sorry if some fans were raised with a standard of excellence and will accept nothing less than said excellence.

Hey.........

That's my avatar.

 

[Haburger]

Because some people care about the quality of this forum, maybe?

quality of the forum ? ha ha ha ha ha ha.i needed that thanks!!

 

[Hoople]

What the hell does that even mean?

The game is played on the ice of course, but the spreadsheet is based on what happens on the ice. Is it completely predictive? No, but there as hell is some correlation between some statistics and winning.

And nice of you to use a 3 game sample to draw a conclusion.

And by the way, who brought up DD?

Every single game played against the Rangers this season (3) is a one game sample regarding the Rangers/Habs. Combine the three games and you have a result of how the Habs did against the Rags this season.

Would it be better if I brought up how we did against the Leafs while discussing the Rangers?

Interesting that its a fools game to look at the whole to see how teams fare against other teams singularly. We own the Bruins. The Bolts won their first game in ten against the Bruins yesterday. We cannot beat the Bolts in the regular season. So yes, one game samples compiled against a single team does bear some relevance.

 

[DangerDave]

Fine. So, in your opinion, the same mistakes keep being made over and over again. Bugs you and a few others on this board to no end obviously because you feel compelled to repeatedly tell everyone else who cares to look at this team board.

If you work for a living, do you make the same complaints to your co-workers every day about your boss? Or if you go to school, do you make the same complaints about your profs/teachers to your classmates every day? Hopefully not, because very few people want to hear the same criticisms over and over and over.

Too many times on this board threads start off with a potentially interesting OP but get taken over for pages at a time by the same complaints. You know the ones... "Therrien is a lousy coach", "DD should not be on the 1st line", "it's only because of Price".

Sorry if I picked this post in particular as I don't like to single out one person, but it's annoying for some of us. To the point where it's not worth even bothering to post. And so usually I don't.

To answer the OP, I am happy the Habs are at the top of the league. And I am going to enjoy it while it lasts.

It is true that some of the points keep getting repeated but that's bound to happen. I will say though that I'm also getting sick of these threads degrading to simply MT or DD sucks without any real reasoning.

Lafleur's guy does bring up a point though and he has every reason to be critical of the team. Some games we end up winning feel like losses since our goalie bailed us out.

Am I happy with the record? Of course but I still see room for improvement and so do many on here. I love this team. I think there is something special about this group of guys. I want all the players to perform well, even DD. But many on here including Lafleur and myself can't help but wonder how much more this team is capable of.

We are all habs fans here. All on the same side. I love hearing people say good things about this team but I also like hearing some of the criticisms as well. There is always room for improvement. Some people just like to remind us of this more often than others lol.

 

[Hoople]

Except we haven't won jack yet. And that's the problem... this coach could very well end up costing us a cup.

We'll see how this goes down. I think we have a good enough team to win a Championship. If we go on a run where we can't score and we've got Davey sucking up PP minutes and we find ourselves eliminated then this coach deserves to be shredded on these boards. Reality is that he's done a horrible job.

Our record has nothing to do with him. ANY coach could come in here and make us bottom third and let Price save the day. He's done absolutely nothing to help us as far as I'm concerned.

Great that we're in first. Great that we can win while playing badly. And if we win a cup playing this way I won't care. But if we lose and play badly then this coach (and more importantly the GM) have something to answer for. There's no excuse for what's going on right now. I don't care about the record.

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Realistically, pessimists have the cards stacked in their favor. The odds of the Habs winning a Cup this season is significantly smaller than the odds of NOT winning a Cup.

Dont throw in the towel and surrender just yet. There are games to be played.

 

[Haburger]

Except we haven't won jack yet. And that's the problem... this coach could very well end up costing us a cup.

We'll see how this goes down. I think we have a good enough team to win a Championship. If we go on a run where we can't score and we've got Davey sucking up PP minutes and we find ourselves eliminated then this coach deserves to be shredded on these boards. Reality is that he's done a horrible job.

Our record has nothing to do with him. ANY coach could come in here and make us bottom third and let Price save the day. He's done absolutely nothing to help us as far as I'm concerned.

Great that we're in first. Great that we can win while playing badly. And if we win a cup playing this way I won't care. But if we lose and play badly then this coach (and more importantly the GM) have something to answer for. There's no excuse for what's going on right now. I don't care about the record.

this is hilarious and just proves you know nothing about the nhl and how it works.this team is not good enough as is.we have a roster full of 40-50 pt players.this team cant score because we dont have the players to do it.after patches ,theres no elite offensive players .as a result theres no choice but to play the way we do.do you really think marc bergevin is a dummy ?Seriously. answer that please!!!!and you always come across like know more than him.i d love to hear what hockey credentials you have.and being an internet mod isnt hockey cred.

 

[bsl]

everyone? by complaining about our record being biased by Price's stats and complaining about our 1st place not being legitimate. As if Price wasn't part of the team

what I mean is, I don't think as many Rangers fans are complaining that they have an above average goalie as we do around here. Many people here just can't enjoy what's happening and prefer to go down the depressing cynical route of nothingsevergoodenough

if we ever win the cup, there will be people complaining about the team being a fluke and Price being the only reason we won a cup

Look mate, why does it bother you so much that people criticize the team and coach, often with reason?They are just as much fans as you. If you don't like it, don't read the thread. Stop criticizing other posters. It's ****ing annoying and rude.

 

[Haburger]

Look mate, why does it bother you so much that people criticize the team and coach, often with reason?They are just as much fans as you. If you don't like it, don't read the thread. Stop criticizing other posters. It's ****ing annoying and rude.

i think people are tired of the whining and crying on here.it makes up 80% of the content on here.and solves absolutely nothing.its no wonder habs fans have such a bad reputation.

 

[Hoople]

Look mate, why does it bother you so much that people criticize the team and coach, often with reason?They are just as much fans as you. If you don't like it, don't read the thread. Stop criticizing other posters. It's ****ing annoying and rude.

Criticizing constantly without a solution is simply whining.

Criticism is constructive if you offer an actionable solution to the problem.

Have any problems been solved with the incessant whining by some here? If you have a direct line to Bergevin or even better, Molson, let him (them) know what your solutions are. Lord knows the Habs need it with the results they have produced this regular season.

And that is not a criticism of you or anyone else. Just a random observation.

 

[bsl]

Awesome post.

Not really.

 

[Tabarouette]

Look mate, why does it bother you so much that people criticize the team and coach, often with reason?They are just as much fans as you. If you don't like it, don't read the thread. Stop criticizing other posters. It's ****ing annoying and rude.

what the other 2 above me said. and as I said earlier, posting "DD sucks, fire MT" 150 times in a GDT doesn't really count as criticism

anyway why are you guys all taking this so personal, just post what you want and block me if I make you unhappy in your depressive world

 

[bsl]

Criticizing constantly without a solution is simply whining.

Criticism is constructive if you offer an actionable solution to the problem.

Have any problems been solved with the incessant whining by some here? If you have a direct line to Bergevin or even better, Molson, let him (them) know what your solutions are. Lord knows the Habs need it with the results they have produced this regular season.

And that is not a criticism of you or anyone else. Just a random observation.

It is your crowd that constantly criticizes other posters without solutions. The group that discusses and yes, criticizes the coach and team often, often have suggestions for improvments, good and bad.

It is not 'incessant whining', it is discussion. What is your problem with this?

Most of you Polyannas bring nothing to this board except criticism of other posters. Do you even understand what this place is about?

 

[Uber Coca]

Look mate, why does it bother you so much that people criticize the team and coach, often with reason?They are just as much fans as you. If you don't like it, don't read the thread. Stop criticizing other posters. It's ****ing annoying and rude.

No one wants to be rude. We're just running out of threads where we can discuss or read opinions about the Canadiens without having the typical and unfunny ''OMG DD suckz''.

 

[bsl]

oh they did well?

still, the rangers we're just an exemple, I meant any fanbase but the Rangers seemed like the best comparison. I think we have a pretty similar roster to them

what if the oilers had a great goalie and made the playoffs? do you think people over there would complain about sucking "if the goalie was out"? no, they would enjoy the heck out of it because they know these times don't last. that's more what I meant

The fact that you did not know the Rags have done very well without Lundquist, and still come here and freely, arrogantly criticize other posters, is mind boggling.