Confirmed with Link: Hamilton to NJ - 7 years $63 million per everyone

[devilsblood]

Keep Subban. Let him play 18/19 minutes a game, mostly 5v5 and some clean up/late minute special teams and we will be better for it I believe.

I'll throw out a scenario.

We trade Subban for a solid prospect and a pick, or maybe for a good but overpaid RW with 3 years left on his deal(I legit don't know his value, but for the sake of discussion), and then we turn an around and find a guy like Lovejoy in his last couple years here to play that 3rd pair spot. A solid 3rd pair guy who plays responsible D and can play on the penalty kill.

 

[devilsblood]

Mind you I'm not thinking we need to trade Subban. Just thinking about options that could make sense.

 

[JimEIV]

I'll throw out a scenario.

We trade Subban for a solid prospect and a pick, or maybe for a good but overpaid RW with 3 years left on his deal(I legit don't know his value, but for the sake of discussion), and then we turn an around and find a guy like Lovejoy in his last couple years here to play that 3rd pair spot. A solid 3rd pair guy who plays responsible D and can play on the penalty kill.

I mean why? I guess it would depend on how the season is going? I am thinking if you are seeing progress, the D has some chemistry and we are winning a few more games...Why mess with it? I want to see what this D and Goaltending tandem brings to the table as a whole...If it works, I am just not willing to mess with it.

Give yourself a whole year of a decently reliable vet and the time to replace him is my thought

 

[Cheddabombs]

Just keep Subban lol. He has one year left, he played well last season and will likely be on the 3rd pair. It's solid depth.

 

[devilsblood]

i’d be ok moving subban now but worse dmen have been moved at the deadline. teams that think they have a shot are more willing to part with 1sts and 2nds at the deadline than now. the hope is that subban doesn’t completely suck but with our depth we can probably prop him up look better than he is

But if we are in the mix at the deadline we probably wouldn't trade him.

So do we go get something now while we can, or do we roll with him and then likely lose him for nothing at the end of the year.

And do remember that, though he will likely be better per minute in a diminished role, he will also be underutilized. Though that is a bit of an insurance policy in terms of potential injuries.

 

[13BearerOfHope]

Subban is not “pretty bad”. His dzone play is beyond under appreciated.

I must have watched 15 games or so this year. Not the world, but enough to see that he was one of our best defenders. Does he earn too much? Probably. Does he suck or is he a locker room cancer? I really can’t see it…

he also has dialed down his ego from what I see and I do hope he stays around. He brings good energy and vibe in my opinion.

 

[devilsblood]

I mean why? I guess it would depend on how the season is going? I am thinking if you are seeing progress, the D has some chemistry and we are winning a few more games...Why mess with it? I want to see what this D and Goaltending tandem brings to the table as a whole...If it works, I am just not willing to mess with it.

Give yourself a whole year of a decently reliable vet and the time to replace him is my thought

But again, how happy is Subban going to be, in his walk year, playing 16-18 minutes a night? He's not really a guy I worry about in terms of attitude, but still best case scenario, his role is going to be very diminished.

So if we can get some assets back and then fill that spot with a solid 3rd pair guy, that seems to make sense.

And while I don't blame any of the players for the penalty kill last year, he was a significant part of a unit that was terrible. So could we find a better pk guy to slot into that 3rd pair role? Wouldn't that make more sense?

 

[ninetyeight]

Are we gonna resign Subban if he accepts something around 3-4m, or would he be asking more like 5+ ?

We do have plenty of good skating offensive d though. But I do really like Subban and he seems happy here.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Are we gonna resign Subban if he accepts something around 3-4m, or would he be asking more like 5+ ?

We do have plenty of good skating offensive d though. But I do really like Subban and he seems happy here.

Definitely not.

With Hamilton in the fold and (you'd hope) Severson extended next summer, there is no need for him. They should just go the cheap/depth route for 3rd pairing RHD.

 

[OmNomNom]

i feel a lot of this chat belongs in the general team thread lol

 

[Call Me Al]

But if we are in the mix at the deadline we probably wouldn't trade him.

So do we go get something now while we can, or do we roll with him and then likely lose him for nothing at the end of the year.

And do remember that, though he will likely be better per minute in a diminished role, he will also be underutilized. Though that is a bit of an insurance policy in terms of potential injuries.

good point, still not used to that assumption

 

[devilsblood]

So last year Hamilton played 22:43 per game.

Severson play 22:30.

Hamilton played those minutes on a good Carolina team. We just paid him $9 mil per. I doubt we see those minutes diminished.

I guess Sev's minutes could come down a bit.

But there is just not a lot of minutes there for Subban, and the one spot you'd really like the 3rd pair guy in this mix to pick up minutes is on the penalty kill. Is Subban a good penalty kill guy? Based off last years results I have a hard time saying yes to that.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I see Severson ahead of Subban on some of you re depht charts
Has Subban really become a 3 rd pair defenseman on you re team ?

Subban was good and actually played like a top 4 defencmen last year. Severson is a better player though and was literally playing like a top pairing guy for a decent stretch at the start. Subban is 3rd pair on our team now but if he plays the way he did last year he’s a top 4 dman still. We just have a really good right side on D

 

[The 29th Pick]

It's way more than just Hamilton.

• Let Mueller go
• Signed Murray and Kulikov
• essentially benched Butcher for the year
• Trade for Siegenthaler
• Trade for Graves
• Trade for Joros
• Signed Hamilton
• Ship off Butcher

This is AMZAING work in basically 1 calendar year. The man is serious about the Defense, he is serious about the defense being bigger and stronger and he is not adding plugs from dumpster diving...Their seems to be a vision and purpose in the moves and I love it!

You missed 1 transaction
Pessimistic Jim out
Optimistic Jim in
glad to have ya back, its been a few years man!

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

Watched a couple of minutes of that video and I envisioned Hughes taking the zone and finding a late trailing Hamilton...Seriously that alone might bump Jack's point totals up 10/15 points.

Positive Jack talk? Who’s this guy? Just joshing you. Nice to see positive Jim back.

 

[TrufleShufle]

So last year Hamilton played 22:43 per game.

Severson play 22:30.

Hamilton played those minutes on a good Carolina team. We just paid him $9 mil per. I doubt we see those minutes diminished.

I guess Sev's minutes could come down a bit.

But there is just not a lot of minutes there for Subban, and the one spot you'd really like the 3rd pair guy in this mix to pick up minutes is on the penalty kill. Is Subban a good penalty kill guy? Based off last years results I have a hard time saying yes to that.

That's my line of thinking, if there was any team in the league that would have a need for him on the 2nd pairing half retained and we could get something for him, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a bottom pairing penalty killer.

Problem is, I can't think of a team that is both in a position to buy and needs a good not great 2nd pairing D-man.

It would be pointless to give him away just to replace him with someone cheaper, the money doesn't matter. He would need to be worth it to another team to pay to make any sense, and I just don't think that's the case.

 

[TrufleShufle]

You missed 1 transaction
Pessimistic Jim out
Optimistic Jim in
glad to have ya back, its been a few years man!

If that's true, someone is going to have to replace that gritty get to the dirty area posting style. I'm afraid of who that will be.

 

[JimEIV]

But again, how happy is Subban going to be, in his walk year, playing 16-18 minutes a night? He's not really a guy I worry about in terms of attitude, but still best case scenario, his role is going to be very diminished.

So if we can get some assets back and then fill that spot with a solid 3rd pair guy, that seems to make sense.

And while I don't blame any of the players for the penalty kill last year, he was a significant part of a unit that was terrible. So could we find a better pk guy to slot into that 3rd pair role? Wouldn't that make more sense?

Our PK already has significantly more options than last year.

In some ways I think you and I are saying the same thing...But I am going with the expectation/assumption of finding his replacement is going to take a bit longer...I think Subban's replacement needs to be a bit better than just an adequate 3rd paring guy. I also think you have to keep in the back of your mind the real possibility of losing Severson in two years and at least architect some sort of options for that possibility. I think keeping Subban around for longer gives us more flexibility to address issues that might arise.

 

[JimEIV]

Positive Jack talk? Who’s this guy? Just joshing you. Nice to see positive Jim back.

All things run through Defense.

 

[JimEIV]

You missed 1 transaction
Pessimistic Jim out
Optimistic Jim in
glad to have ya back, its been a few years man!

I do wonder how much of what we are seeing has to do with Marty in all honesty...

Doesn't really matter I like the direction.

 

[devilsblood]

Our PK already has significantly more options than last year.

In some ways I think you and I are saying the same thing...But I am going with the expectation/assumption of finding his replacement is going to take a bit longer...I think Subban's replacement needs to be a bit better than just an adequate 3rd paring guy. I also think you have to keep in the back of your mind the real possibility of losing Severson in two years and at least architect some sort of options for that possibility. I think keeping Subban around for longer gives us more flexibility to address issues that might arise.

Subban is 32 this year. I don't see him as Sev's walking insurance. Signing Sev's is the Sev's walking insurance I'm looking for.

As per penalty kill options, we added 2 righties, but no one on the left side is a true pk guy. Now maybe the righties help the lefties out, and I do think that there was systemic/goalie issues that were helping the pk look as bad as it did, but just the same, we don't have a true lefty penalty kill d-man.

 

[Better Call Sal]

i feel a lot of this chat belongs in the general team thread lol

If you want to get technical about it, all of the discussion stems from what to do now that Dougie is signed.

 

[JK3]

Ok that did actually happen, we got Dougie!

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I'll throw out a scenario.

We trade Subban for a solid prospect and a pick, or maybe for a good but overpaid RW with 3 years left on his deal(I legit don't know his value, but for the sake of discussion), and then we turn an around and find a guy like Lovejoy in his last couple years here to play that 3rd pair spot. A solid 3rd pair guy who plays responsible D and can play on the penalty kill.

I don’t think we’re getting as much for Subban 50% retained as you think. At best a 3rd round pick maybe 2nd IMO and I don’t think that’s worth doing. There isn’t many options out there to replace him right now and having him there to step into a top 4 role if one of the other d gets hurt is very valuable. We don’t want Saros playing top 4 all of the sudden if Sevs or Dougie gets hurt.
If a team is offering a 1st round pick I think we should consider it but I doubt the price gets that high.

 

[JimEIV]

Subban is 32 this year. I don't see him as Sev's walking insurance. Signing Sev's is the Sev's walking insurance I'm looking for.

No, no, no...Subban is definitely not Severson insurance. Definitely NOT.

He is a bridge that gives the organization time to make better decisions based on the situation.

I think another 6 to 9 months to see the landscape puts us in a much better position to make decisions

EDIT: I am also working on the assumption Subban is gone after this year...I just like to do it slowly