Half-Season Awards: James Norris

[Phrasing]

This board is so funny the longer you're around. I've seen the same arguments used for and against players at this point and it makes me laugh.

On the one hand, Makar has been singled out by Canucks or Rangers fans for not being on the PK. For not scoring more than their forwards. For being injured and not scoring as much. Even when it's only say... 10 games.

Then you get to see the same arguments used the opposite way. Why should Hughes PK when it's less valuable why. Why do the injuries matter when pace is there. He's the leasing scorer, he's so great!

Here's what matters to voters...

Games Played
Total Points (Goals > Assists)
Defensive impact
Reputation
Playoff team

If Hughes remains injured, pace is irrelevant if Makar doesn't and scores more.

If Makar keeps up the goals, those are worth more than Assists.

If Makar keeps being a stud defensively, it's irrelevant what Hughes metrics or his hype train says. Makar is still a top defender in his own zone.

Makar has the reputation, more than Hughes in fact.

His team is a playoff team. And he was out scoring the current league leading player a dozen games into the season. Buts it's not his fault Canucks don't HAVE a MacKinnon or Rantanen.

Simple enough... So yeah, Makar easily right now. Could be Hughes easily if Makar had been the one injured instead.

I think it’s Hughes injury considered, not in spite of it. But I’m definitely not going to convince you with your salient and coherent rant.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Makar’s to lose as of today based on how voters vote.

By the end of year I think there’s a decent chance Hughes will surpass him and take it though.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Hughes based on all round game. I think he’s also a Hart finalist.

 

[Mez]

I think it has to be Hughes at this point. my second would be Werenski, then Makar 3rd.

 

[wetcoast]

I think it has to be Hughes at this point. my second would be Werenski, then Makar 3rd.

I think that your second place vote would really stand out at this point.

I like Zach and maybe he get's some first time votes but there is right now a significant gap between the 2 frontrunners and Zach who is alone in 3rd.

 

[dirtydanglez]

maker so far

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I think that your second place vote would really stand out at this point.

I like Zach and maybe he get's some first time votes but there is right now a significant gap between the 2 frontrunners and Zach who is alone in 3rd.

Curious as to why you see Makar and Hughes significantly ahead of Werenski this year. I'll admit to not watching games of any of them but looking at stats it would seem Werenski is keeping pace or leading in many categories while being on a team that legit was supposed to be bottom 3 in the league.

Points leader (1 less game played than Makar), more goals, more ice time, more ES goals and points, T1 in GWG.

 

[wetcoast]

Curious as to why you see Makar and Hughes significantly ahead of Werenski this year. I'll admit to not watching games of any of them but looking at stats it would seem Werenski is keeping pace or leading in many categories while being on a team that legit was supposed to be bottom 3 in the league.

Points leader (1 less game played than Makar), more goals, more ice time, more ES goals and points, T1 in GWG.

Most of my comments around these awards are somewhat based on voting history.

Hughes just makes the Canucks run, he really has been the team this year.

Makar has the brand name and reputation and the flair that voters like.

Frankly I think the biggest problem for Zach is that a lot of voters probably don't watch a ton of Jackets games and the 2 frontrunners have the brand and narrative this year.

It's kind of like 22-23 when hughes arguably had as good a season as the Norris winner in terms of real value but still finished 9th in Norris voting.

the narrative that year was all about EK65's points.

But since then Hughes has ramped up his game even more and for me is the front runner here.

Maybe the narrative for Zach emerges I dunno but the voters seem to be narrative driven quite a bit.

 

[Spilot23]

Most of my comments around these awards are somewhat based on voting history.

Hughes just makes the Canucks run, he really has been the team this year.

Makar has the brand name and reputation and the flair that voters like.

Frankly I think the biggest problem for Zach is that a lot of voters probably don't watch a ton of Jackets games and the 2 frontrunners have the brand and narrative this year.

It's kind of like 22-23 when hughes arguably had as good a season as the Norris winner in terms of real value but still finished 9th in Norris voting.

the narrative that year was all about EK65's points.

But since then Hughes has ramped up his game even more and for me is the front runner here.

Maybe the narrative for Zach emerges I dunno but the voters seem to be narrative driven quite a bit.

The new Lidstrom !!

 

[SillyRabbit]

Curious as to why you see Makar and Hughes significantly ahead of Werenski this year. I'll admit to not watching games of any of them but looking at stats it would seem Werenski is keeping pace or leading in many categories while being on a team that legit was supposed to be bottom 3 in the league.

Points leader (1 less game played than Makar), more goals, more ice time, more ES goals and points, T1 in GWG.

People act like Werenski is solo carrying the Blue Jackets when Marchenko and Monahan have 48 and 41 points respectively.

Nobody on the Canucks for example, has more than 30 points.

Werenski is absolutely in the conversation but his two top scorers are out producing Pettersson and Miller by a combined 32 points.

Werenski’s argument should be based on how well he’s played (and he’s absolutely played like a Norris caliber defenceman) rather than “the Jackets are overperforming solely because of him.”

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Coming in with a Quinn Hughes vote.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Most of my comments around these awards are somewhat based on voting history.

Hughes just makes the Canucks run, he really has been the team this year.

Makar has the brand name and reputation and the flair that voters like.

Frankly I think the biggest problem for Zach is that a lot of voters probably don't watch a ton of Jackets games and the 2 frontrunners have the brand and narrative this year.

It's kind of like 22-23 when hughes arguably had as good a season as the Norris winner in terms of real value but still finished 9th in Norris voting.

the narrative that year was all about EK65's points.

But since then Hughes has ramped up his game even more and for me is the front runner here.

Maybe the narrative for Zach emerges I dunno but the voters seem to be narrative driven quite a bit.

OK... but you get that this poll is just about who's been the best defenseman so far this year and very specifically NOT who you think will win the award right?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

People act like Werenski is solo carrying the Blue Jackets when Marchenko and Monahan have 48 and 41 points respectively.

Nobody on the Canucks for example, has more than 30 points.

Werenski is absolutely in the conversation but his two top scorers are out producing Pettersson and Miller by a combined 32 points.

Werenski’s argument should be based on how well he’s played (and he’s absolutely played like a Norris caliber defenceman) rather than “the Jackets are overperforming solely because of him.”

I don't think I based my post around the idea that he's carrying the Blue Jackets. All my evidence was head to head to head stats against Makar and Hughes. It is true that he's performing super well on a team that was slated for bottom of the league though. He's obviously had some good teammates this year as well but he's a huge part of leading the defense. Agreed that Hughes is absolutely carrying the Canucks though.

If anything I would have Werenski and Hughes neck and neck with Makar very slightly under in 3rd.

 

[wetcoast]

OK... but you get that this poll is just about who's been the best defenseman so far this year and very specifically NOT who you think will win the award right?

Yes I understand that but right now, okay very recently has it that way as well across a large subjection of eligible voters.

NHL Awards Watch: The MVP race tightens up -- and adds more contenders

At the midway mark of the 2024-25 season, are some awards already sewn up? We checked in with a panel of PHWA voters to check the temperature.

www.espn.com

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Yes I understand that but right now, okay very recently has it that way as well across a large subjection of eligible voters.

NHL Awards Watch: The MVP race tightens up -- and adds more contenders

At the midway mark of the 2024-25 season, are some awards already sewn up? We checked in with a panel of PHWA voters to check the temperature.

www.espn.com

Ya I get that nationally and across media outlets they are going to go off of reputation and all that. This poll is just asking a very simple question of who has been the best D-man this year so far. No more, no less. You're overthinking it.