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Habs vs Wings

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Which team is currently in better shape moving forward?

  • Total voters
    243
Xspyrit said:
November 29, 2021

I live in Montreal, I have a building 10 mins away from the Bell Center. Don't worry I know a lot about the Habs.

They started sucking (like other rebuilding teams) in 2017-18, meaning they SHOULD have rebuilt earlier, which is the point people are making and that some of you STILL aren't understanding.
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Yes, but aside from a top 3 pick which doesnt even count because we lost it to an hostile offer, which pick between 2018 and 2021 was in the range that a rebuilding team usually get?

"But but they should have been rebuilding earlier than they actually started to rebuild" is such a stupid argument.

If they said "Some of the picks they got while trying to compete for a playoff spot hit pretty well so they accelerated their rebuild" Then yes i would agree with. But Guhle, Suzuki and Caufield were all in the 10 to 20 range. Did Detroit not have those range of picks during their 7-8 years rebuild?
 
Bigtrout said:
Inspired by the ''Habs vs Sens'' poll
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Habs easily.

The crazy years of the Wings always being solid seem to be over and they look clueless to figure it out.

Habs aren't better necessarily, but they'll somehow come out better out of pride or something.

It's good to show respec.
 
NikolaTesla said:
Yes, but aside from a top 3 pick which doesnt even count because we lost it to an hostile offer, which pick between 2018 and 2021 was in the range that a rebuilding team usually get?

"But but they should have been rebuilding earlier than they actually started to rebuild" is such a stupid argument.

If they said "Some of the picks they got while trying to compete for a playoff spot hit pretty well so they accelerated their rebuild" Then yes i would agree with. But Guhle, Suzuki and Caufield were all in the 10 to 20 range. Did Detroit not have those range of picks during their 7-8 years rebuild?
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😂 2018 doesn’t even count,
 
Xspyrit said:
Exactly. It's going to be interesting between these 3 teams

Demidov + Hutson
Stutzle + Sanderson
Raymond + Seider

Suzuki + Caufield + Slafkovský + Laine + Dach
Tkachuk + Batherson + Norris + Pinto + Greig
Larkin + DeBrincat + Kasper + Danielson + Mazur

Chabot + Yakemchuk + Zub + Kleven
Matheson + Guhle + Carrier + Reinbacher
Edvinsson + Sandin-Pellika + Wallinder + Buium

Dobes + Fowler
Ullmark + Merilainen
Cossa + Augustine


My problem for Ottawa is because of Dorion's work, their prospect pool is not close at all to Montreal's and even Detroit. There is Yakemchuk, Merilainen and a guy called Blake Montgomery but after that, not much... Ottawa will be a lot more dependent on their GM's work now, he will have to do a flawless job to fix the mess Dorion has created and replenish the pool.

Most of Detroit good prospects are listed there since they don't have enough young players on the roster for the comparison but Montreal still has guys like Hage, Beck, Roy, Mailloux, etc... not listed. That is why I ranked them above Ottawa and Detroit
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I won't cry over Dorion's mismanagement of Sens assets but glad for their fans that he and Melnyk are gone. As funny as it was to watch they were so clueless and it just kept going on. Dorion did some serious damage like you said.
 
NikolaTesla said:
Yes, but aside from a top 3 pick which doesnt even count because we lost it to an hostile offer, which pick between 2018 and 2021 was in the range that a rebuilding team usually get?
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The facts are already in there in this thread. I'll repeat but just once :

They did well (average) in 2018-19 but the outlook is this :

2017–18 : 28th in P% (4th worst team)
2018–19 : 14th in P%
2019–20 : 24th in P% (8th worst team)
2020–21 : 18th in P%

21st overall for these 4 seasons

For Ottawa, which was a rebuilding team :

2020-21 : 23rd in P%
2021-22 : 26th in P%
2022-23 : 21st in P%
2023-24 : 26th in P%

24th overall for these 4 seasons

So you understand that outside of that average season, it looks pretty similar to Ottawa during their rebuild and overall just 3 spots above in the standings with one team less (31 teams)

So the point people are making. Habs have been a well below average team since 2017-18, that they delayed their needed rebuild to 2021 or not...

Oh and do you remember Bergevin's "plan quinquennal"? I do

NikolaTesla said:
"But but they should have been rebuilding earlier than they actually started to rebuild" is such a stupid argument.
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Really? I heard it a million times from Habs fans themselves.

NikolaTesla said:
If they said "Some of the picks they got while trying to compete for a playoff spot hit pretty well so they accelerated their rebuild" Then yes i would agree with. But Guhle, Suzuki and Caufield were all in the 10 to 20 range. Did Detroit not have those range of picks during their 7-8 years rebuild?
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Damn, you really don't get it lol

Bigtrout said:
I won't cry over Dorion's mismanagement of Sens assets but glad for their fans that he and Melnyk are gone. As funny as it was to watch they were so clueless and it just kept going on. Dorion did some serious damage like you said.
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It's actually incredible that the Sens have any kind of present/future with all the damage he has done. Think about all the Zibanejad, Duchene, Dadnov, DeBrincat, Chychrun, Stepan, Gustavsson, Murray, etc trades/sagas...

I think the only reason is due to the incredible wealth this team already had. Hughes would have built a dynasty with it.
That said, let's keep in mind that the Sens were STUCK with Dorion, Melnyk had to pass away, the team had to be sold and it took a while... Andlauer only took control of the team in September 2023
 
Xspyrit said:
The facts are already in there in this thread. I'll repeat but just once :

They did well (average) in 2018-19 but the outlook is this :

2017–18 : 28th in P% (4th worst team)
2018–19 : 14th in P%
2019–20 : 24th in P% (8th worst team)
2020–21 : 18th in P%

21st overall for these 4 seasons

For Ottawa, which was a rebuilding team :

2020-21 : 23rd in P%
2021-22 : 26th in P%
2022-23 : 21st in P%
2023-24 : 26th in P%

24th overall for these 4 seasons

So you understand that outside of that average season, it looks pretty similar to Ottawa during their rebuild and overall just 3 spots above in the standings with one team less (31 teams)

So the point people are making. Habs have been a well below average team since 2017-18, that they delayed their needed rebuild to 2021 or not...

Oh and do you remember Bergevin's "plan quinquennal"? I do



Really? I heard it a million times from Habs fans themselves.



Damn, you really don't get it lol



It's actually incredible that the Sens have any kind of present/future with all the damage he has done. Think about all the Zibanejad, Duchene, Dadnov, DeBrincat, Chychrun, Stepan, Gustavsson, Murray, etc trades/sagas...

I think the only reason is due to the incredible wealth this team already had. Hughes would have built a dynasty with it.
That said, let's keep in mind that the Sens were STUCK with Dorion, Melnyk had to pass away, the team had to be sold and it took a while... Andlauer only took control of the team in September 2023
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You realize the whole argument was that the habs' rebuild began around the same time as the wings and ottawa's? Which is bullshit.

2021 : drafted 31st. If you're rebuilding and you're drafting 31st, you're doing something wrong.
2020: drafted 16th Totally a rebuilding team's draft rank range right?
2019: drafted 15th. Again, totally a rebuilding team's draft rank range right?
2018: drafted 3rd. Kotkaniemi. Lost him to an hostile offer, the 1st rounder they got for it... they spent on Dvorak. totally a rebuilding move :rolleyes:
2017: drafted 25th.... enough said

So whoever claimed that the reason that the Hab's rebuild's looks just as advanced as the sens or wings because they started their rebuild around the same time is full of shit.
 
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NikolaTesla said:
You realize the whole argument was that the habs' rebuild began around the same time as the wings and ottawa's? Which is bullshit.

2021 : drafted 31st. If you're rebuilding and you're drafting 31st, you're doing something wrong.
2020: drafted 16th Totally a rebuilding team's draft rank range right?
2019: drafted 15th. Again, totally a rebuilding team's draft rank range right?
2018: drafted 3rd. Kotkaniemi. Lost him to an hostile offer, the 1st rounder they got for it... they spent on Dvorak. totally a rebuilding move :rolleyes:
2017: drafted 25th.... enough said

So whoever claimed that the reason that the Hab's rebuild's looks just as advanced as the sens or wings because they started their rebuild around the same time is full of shit.
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Am I supposed to argue for others as well? Am I their lawyer? In that case, show me the money. My argument was pretty clear and not exactly the same as some other poster you are referring to. Can't you see that?

And why are you talking about the 2017 draft? From my first post in this thread, that you quoted, I always talked about "since 2017-18", which is the 2018 draft anyway

Please, if you want to quote me, make sure you're a lot more attentive.
 
Xspyrit said:
Am I supposed to argue for others as well? Am I their lawyer? In that case, show me the money. My argument was pretty clear and not exactly the same as some other poster you are referring to. Can't you see that?

And why are you talking about the 2017 draft? From my first post in this thread, that you quoted, I always talked about "since 2017-18", which is the 2018 draft anyway

Please, if you want to quote me, make sure you're a lot more attentive.
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Then im not sure why you are even arguing with me to begin with.
 
So what do we do now? Is Huston a bust? Is Suzuki actually a 3rd liner? Is Raymond the next Jari Kurri?

Please provide your reasonable restrained takes off this one game.
 
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RedHawkDown said:
So what do we do now? Is Huston a bust? Is Suzuki actually a 3rd liner? Is Raymond the next Jari Kurri?

Please provide your reasonable restrained takes off this one game.
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Teams in the East can't get any separation.

Wings can beat anyone and can lose to anyone on any given night. Lost to MTL twice, beat Capitals, lose to Sharks, beat Panthers....
 
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