Habs vs Wings

[Bigtrout]

Inspired by the ''Habs vs Sens'' poll

Click to read more...

 

[Bouboumaster]

Habs for sure

 

[Bigtrout]

Surprising take from the guy that claimed Josh Roy was a Top 20 prospect during the offseason lmao.

You're just here to start fights, aren't you?

 

[biturbo19]

The Wings situation is so hard to read. They've got some great pieces in place, but they also have a huge number of ambiguous situations just hanging there...no clue how a lot of pieces are really going to turn out. That's going to define whether the Detroit rebuild is successful or not, and it's very much up in the air still.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...Habs fan here saying too close to call...love where the Habs are and extremely befuddled by the Wings...they SHOULD be better and they have some good young talent waiting to shine...

 

[norrisnick]

The Wings situation is so hard to read. They've got some great pieces in place, but they also have a huge number of ambiguous situations just hanging there...no clue how a lot of pieces are really going to turn out. That's going to define whether the Detroit rebuild is successful or not, and it's very much up in the air still.

What's ambiguous?

There are young players. Prospects on the way and warm bodies plugging holes until the kids get there. Copp and Chiarot are no more part of the future than Gallagher and Savard are. Yet for some reason people get hung up about the former and no one cares about the latter.

 

[biturbo19]

What's ambiguous?

There are young players. Prospects on the way and warm bodies plugging holes until the kids get there. Copp and Chiarot are no more part of the future than Gallagher and Savard are. Yet for some reason people get hung up about the former and no one cares about the latter.

The ambiguous thing is...the Red Wings have a lot of prospects who are either on the cusp or not quite there yet. And some of them have really murky "upside".


The Habs are a little bit ahead in having their kids arriving, and other ones with less ambiguous "ceilings". The Wings "rebuild" is so contingent on how guys like Danielson, Kasper, ASP, et al turn out. Habs rebuild...Demidov is obviously going to be a big factor, but i don't see him as being as murky as a prospect. Reinbacher, Mailloux, etc. you kind of have a reasonable ballpark expectation.

Montreal's biggest "wildcard" was Hutson...and i think we're at least getting a clearer picture of that one already.

 

[norrisnick]

The ambiguous thing is...the Red Wings have a lot of prospects who are either on the cusp or not quite there yet. And some of them have really murky "upside".


The Habs are a little bit ahead in having their kids arriving, and other ones with less ambiguous "ceilings". The Wings "rebuild" is so contingent on how guys like Danielson, Kasper, ASP, et al turn out. Habs rebuild...Demidov is obviously going to be a big factor, but i don't see him as being as murky as a prospect. Reinbacher, Mailloux, etc. you kind of have a reasonable ballpark expectation.

Montreal's biggest "wildcard" was Hutson...and i think we're at least getting a clearer picture of that one already.

I don't see the Hab kids' future as being any more clear than the Wings kids, or any team's kids for that matter. To pretend otherwise is setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Bigtrout]

Yet for some reason people get hung up about the former and no one cares about the latter.

I mean, everybody knows just how bad Gallagher's contract is but the man who signed him is long gone and it was before the team started rebuilding. You'd probably hear more about it if he was a FA testing the market and Hughes threw that money at him to improve the team. Same thing for Anderson and Savard who's on his last year.

 

[eojsmada]

Toss-up for me. I love the prospect depth for both teams. If there is a slight nod it's that the core for Detroit is slightly more defined. But the raw depth at all positions for Montreal is hard to ignore.

I'd have to give this another 2-3 years to shake out.

 

[biturbo19]

I don't see the Hab kids' future as being any more clear than the Wings kids, or any team's kids for that matter. To pretend otherwise is setting yourself up for disappointment.

I mean, i won't really be "disappointed" if the remaining Habs kids don't "hit". I don't really have a horse in this race. I'll have to reevaluate some things about how i project prospects, but that's basically just a constant process for anyone who is being remotely serious and honest about how the deal works.


I just think the Red Wings prospects have a much less clear cone of projection, or wider range of likely outcomes than the Habs guys.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Despite the current Hutson hype (which is warranted), I still like Detroit’s defensive pipeline (Seider/Edvinsson/ASP) better than Montreal’s (Hutson/Reinbacher/Guhle), and I think Detroit’s stronger at center and goalie too.

 

[norrisnick]

I mean, i won't really be "disappointed" if the remaining Habs kids don't "hit". I don't really have a horse in this race. I'll have to reevaluate some things about how i project prospects, but that's basically just a constant process for anyone who is being remotely serious and honest about how the deal works.


I just think the Red Wings prospects have a much less clear cone of projection, or wider range of likely outcomes than the Habs guys.

Ok. But, I guess I question the concerns about the future potential for say Danielson and Kasper as you called out above when the Habs don't have a center prospect of note at all?

 

[biturbo19]

Ok. But, I guess I question the concerns about the future potential for say Danielson and Kasper as you called out above when the Habs don't have a center prospect of note at all?

I mean, that's my whole point. How Danielson and Kasper pan out is make or break for Detroit. Habs...don't really have anyone of note coming down the pipeline at C.

Suzuki is clearly well ahead of any of those guys right now, but if either of them end up Suzuki-level? They've already also got Larkin, who is still in his prime and poised well as another one of those 1a/1b type Centers.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

The ambiguous thing is...the Red Wings have a lot of prospects who are either on the cusp or not quite there yet. And some of them have really murky "upside".


The Habs are a little bit ahead in having their kids arriving, and other ones with less ambiguous "ceilings". The Wings "rebuild" is so contingent on how guys like Danielson, Kasper, ASP, et al turn out. Habs rebuild...Demidov is obviously going to be a big factor, but i don't see him as being as murky as a prospect. Reinbacher, Mailloux, etc. you kind of have a reasonable ballpark expectation.

Montreal's biggest "wildcard" was Hutson...and i think we're at least getting a clearer picture of that one already.

Dunno that I'd call the Habs "Ahead" simply because their prospects are arriving faster. Especially considering Detroit is notorious for overcooking their prospects.

Larkin and Suzuki are pretty comparable quality-wise, with the Montreal advantage of Suzuki being a few years younger. Point Montreal for age, I guess. As players, they're very similar, though.

For size and style, you could compare Caufield and Debrincat, in which case currently you pretty easily take Caufield. Point to Montreal, there.

Detroit has Raymond, who has taken so many steps in the last year and a half that if you're Montreal, you're pretty happy if Demidov reaches his level. That's still a question mark. Rather easily point Detroit right now.

Defense wise, I'd take Detroit's trio of Seider/Edvinsson/ASP over Guhle/Hutson/Reinbacher, though it's somewhat of a weird comparison. Seider and Reinbacher are probably most comparable, but Seider is Detroit's most proven and Reinbacher hasn't really proven anything yet. Pretty much the same case with Hutson and ASP comparably, except Hutson is the proven one and ASP hasn't proven anything yet.

Where things get murky is that Detroit has a couple bigger name prospects with questionable offensive upside in Danielson and Kasper, while Montreal has some bigger name young players in the NHL already, who kinda aren't playing up to the level expected of them. (Slaf/Dach/Newhook) How all those guys progress going forward will probably tilt this.

As far as future goalies go, Cossa, Fowler, and Augustine are all solid prospects. At this point though, Cossa's the most proven at the highest level, and I'll take two shots over one when it comes to goalie prospects. Point Detroit.

 

[norrisnick]

I mean, that's my whole point. How Danielson and Kasper pan out is make or break for Detroit. Habs...don't really have anyone of note coming down the pipeline at C.

Suzuki is clearly well ahead of any of those guys right now, but if either of them end up Suzuki-level? They've already also got Larkin, who is still in his prime and poised well as another one of those 1a/1b type Centers.

So... how Danielson or Kasper pan out is a concern for Detroit, right? But how [absolutely no one] pans out isn't a concern for Montreal? Suzuki and Larkin are the respective 1Cs and leaders for the foreseeable future. I just don't get why Kasper and Danielson are this unknown spectre hanging over the Wings. At least they exist...

 

[biturbo19]

Where things get murky is that Detroit has a couple bigger name prospects with questionable offensive upside in Danielson and Kasper, while Montreal has some bigger name young players in the NHL already, who kinda aren't playing up to the level expected of them. (Slaf/Dach/Newhook) How all those guys progress going forward will probably tilt this.

I mean, this is really all it boils down to. How these two pan out will swing this one way or the other. That's pretty much the crux of it.

So... how Danielson or Kasper pan out is a concern for Detroit, right? But how [absolutely no one] pans out isn't a concern for Montreal? Suzuki and Larkin are the respective 1Cs and leaders for the foreseeable future. I just don't get why Kasper and Danielson are this unknown spectre hanging over the Wings. At least they exist...

As above...how these guys turn out is what will swing this one way or the other. Combined with, what Montreal and Detroit are able to pick up at the deadline and in this upcoming draft. Where Detroit looks like they'll have an edge in the draft if things carry on.



I'm not a Habs fan, i'm not a Wings fan...i'm just calling it like i see it.