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Habs vs Sens

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Which organization is in better shape moving forward

  • Habs

  • Sens

  • Too close to call

Results are only viewable after voting.
Bouboumaster said:
If one Day you want to jump ship and want to support a much better team, know that we don't do this to our own!
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I shit on the sens too , but why would we want to join a team full of bias fans that they their team is great when they actually suck? I've been doing that in Ottawa for years.

Perhaps if you were offering a Stanley cup winning team or even a playoff team, it would make sense.

Right now, it's two teams fanbases who haven't made the playoffs in years bickering about who sucks less. It's sad.
 
Bouboumaster said:
"Sens have the best talents Everywhere!"

Ok cool, how are the Habs and the Sens ex aequo right now then? How is it possible, if:

Stützle and Tkachuck better than everyone on the Habs;
Batherson better than everyone not named Suzuki;
Top 3 defensemen in Ottawa better than Hutson

The answer, is that those takes are wrong

Reality:
Stützle could be a one-hit wonder and topped at 90. Possibly the better forward on both team, but it's disputed by the fact that Suzuki is a better two-way forward. They are currently almost Equal in points too (Suzuki has 2 more, in fact)

Tkachuck ain't better than either Suzuki and Caufield. Is he a physical Beast? Hell yeah! A better hockey player? Nope.

Hutson will be perceived as the better defenseman on either team by the end of the year
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It's easy to get distracted by the "AINEC!" nonsense. The reality is Stutzle and Suzuki are both upper-tier but not elite. It's a decent comparison and an obvious one, given their roles. Stutzle is very talented, around two years younger, and had that a terrific 90-pt season three seasons ago (counting this one). Suzuki is similarly talented, with production that consistently increases every season. If you're looking at a single season as a benchmark, you can say Stutzle's potential is higher; if you're looking at a longer arc, you can say Suzuki's potential is a better bet.

The other comparisons don't really track. Ottawa doesn't have a sniper like Caufield; Montreal doesn't have a power forward like Tkachuk. Ottawa doesn't have any D like Hutson; Montreal doesn't (yet) have anyone like Sanderson.

As a Habs fan, I think we have the advantage moving forward. Montreal's roster is younger with more runway for development, plus there are higher-end prospects a year or two away from joining the team. Both teams have veterans contributing to their success, but Montreal's vets carry less relative weight than Ottawa's (insert David Savard weight joke here).

The bottom line is that, despite the low-value hyperbole in this thread, both teams have been neck-and-neck for two seasons. Flag-wavers on both sides should stare at the standings before posting crap.
 
Bouboumaster said:
If one Day you want to jump ship and want to support a much better team, know that we don't do this to our own!
Click to expand...

I shit on the sens too , but why would we want to join a team full of bias fans that they their team is great when they actually suck? I've been doing that in Ottawa for years.

Perhaps if you were offering a Stanley cup winning team or even a playoff team, it would make sense.

Right now, it's two teams fanbases who haven't made the playoffs in years bickering about who sucks less.
Bigtrout said:
That's cute, those playoffs were awesome but you wouldn't know
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Do you think people don't watch the playoffs when their team is out? That's why they said it was a joke. Because there WERE watching.

Before you get your panties in a twist, the sens being an OT goal away from making the finals in 2017 was also a joke.

I don't know if you're sooooo biased you can't tell a team got lucky and hot at the right time, but otherwise we're nowhere near a top 5-10 team that year...

Like come on. You KNOW this right?
 
jbeck5 said:
Do you think people don't watch the playoffs when their team is out? That's why they said it was a joke. Because there WERE watching.

Before you get your panties in a twist, the sens being an OT goal away from making the finals in 2017 was also a joke.

I don't know if you're sooooo biased you can't tell a team got lucky and hot at the right time, but otherwise we're nowhere near a top 5-10 team that year...

Like come on. You KNOW this right?
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I never said they were a good team, of course they got hot at the right time, does that mean we shouldn't enjoy the run? What's wrong with a cinderella story? They had to beat 3 good teams to make the scf, sure the leafs always choke and it was hilarious. Even better is the team crashed so hard the next year they actually had to rebuild, for once, couldn't have asked for much more for Price and Weber's last season. That's my whole point.
 
Bigtrout said:
I never said they were a good team, of course they got hot at the right time, does that mean we shouldn't enjoy the run? What's wrong with a cinderella story? They had to beat 3 good teams to make the scf, sure the leafs always choke and it was hilarious. Even better is the team crashed so hard the next year they actually had to rebuild, for once, couldn't have asked for much more for Price and Weber's last season. That's my whole point.
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Ok, it sounded like you were chest thumping it more than agreeing it was a miracle run and that your team wasn't actually a good team then, just like the 2017 sens.

Both were average at best, and got lucky. Habs fans and sens fans could enjoy the run obviously, but both should admit they were complete flukes, and not used to make arguments as if it wasn't complete luck....like someone tried to do with Suzuki earlier in this page, arguing based on making the Stanley cup finals as a fluke.
 
Golden_Jet said:
Actually the opposite, he’s usually at or near the top of the league in penalties drawn.
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Does this count coincidental minors are are these only powerplays drawn?

I like Tkachuk, but if it counts cases where both players get penalties, then obviously guys who muck it up after the whistles will be near the top as they often just throw both guys in for roughing.

So seeing both Tkachuks and Marchand wouldn't be a surprise if they count penalties that result in 4 on 4.

I'm more interested in who can draw the most penalties without taking one themselves...which I guess is more the case with MacKinnon and McDavid?

I feel like stutzle would be near the top if it discounts coincidental minors. He draws a lot without taking one himself.
 
jbeck5 said:
Does this count coincidental minors are are these only powerplays drawn?

I like Tkachuk, but if it counts cases where both players get penalties, then obviously guys who muck it up after the whistles will be near the top as they often just throw both guys in for roughing.

So seeing both Tkachuks and Marchand wouldn't be a surprise if they count penalties that result in 4 on 4.

I'm more interested in who can draw the most penalties without taking one themselves...which I guess is more the case with MacKinnon and McDavid?

I feel like stutzle would be near the top if it discounts coincidental minors. He draws a lot without taking one himself.
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It’s counting only man advantages.
 
bud12 said:
Except the physical side, what do you think he brings more to the table?. Caufield is simply a better player. You might figure that out
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"Aside from this aspect that Caufield absolutely does not have whatsoever, what does Tkachuk have to separate their very marginal difference offensively."

Lol.
 
SNES said:
Try a poll and see how that take works out for you
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Try a poll in 2/3 years when Caufield have a longer pedigrie. Even with a year recovering from a shoulder surgery, Caufield the last 3 years have a better goals/games ratio and it will only goes up since he's fully recover and back to where he was before.
 
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bud12 said:
Try a poll in 2/3 years when Caufield have a longer pedigrie. Even with a year recovering from a shoulder surgery, Caufield the last 3 years have a better goals/games ratio and it will only goes up since he's fully recover and back to where he was before.
Click to expand...

So just to be clear, you're conceding that Caufield would lose that poll right now...
 
Going forward it's gotta be the Habs

Although he missed on a couple big draft picks, Hughes is a really good GM. The habs have some legitimately elite young pieces they're building around. Ottawa is in better shape now, but their high prospects are entering their primes now-ish and they still look like a bubble team at this moment.

I expect Ottawa to do slightly better over the next maybe 2 seasons, after that I think the Habs are a top 3 team in the Atlantic
 
bud12 said:
Try a poll in 2/3 years when Caufield have a longer pedigrie. Even with a year recovering from a shoulder surgery, Caufield the last 3 years have a better goals/games ratio and it will only goes up since he's fully recover and back to where he was before.
Click to expand...
Blah blah blah….nice backtrack
 
jbeck5 said:
Does this count coincidental minors are are these only powerplays drawn?

I like Tkachuk, but if it counts cases where both players get penalties, then obviously guys who muck it up after the whistles will be near the top as they often just throw both guys in for roughing.

So seeing both Tkachuks and Marchand wouldn't be a surprise if they count penalties that result in 4 on 4.

I'm more interested in who can draw the most penalties without taking one themselves...which I guess is more the case with MacKinnon and McDavid?

I feel like stutzle would be near the top if it discounts coincidental minors. He draws a lot without taking one himself.
Click to expand...

Caufield has a 21 net penalty advantage over their careers.

Given how massive the difference in physical play is (Tkachuk has cleared Caufield career hit total by over 100 in each of his NHL seasons) it’s actually a surprising small advantage for Caufield.
 
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