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Habs vs Sens

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Which organization is in better shape moving forward

  • Habs

  • Sens

  • Too close to call

Results are only viewable after voting.
SensontheRush said:
You can be adamant and unhinged all you want, it just isn't all that convincing.

In a one-to-one lineup slot comparison, I just wouldn't take a single Habs player.

I'm not taking Slafkovsky over Tkachuk, I'm not taking Suzuki over Stutzle, and I'm not taking Caufield over Batherson.

Demidov is pretty sexy though and SHOULD usurp here, but we aren't there yet, and it will probably take years to do so.

Hutson and Sanderson are pretty equal, though I much more like Sanderson's physical tools over Hutson's; Hutson just doesn't have Sanderson's frame and wheels. Hutson is better offensively, but if I were to callback to your stance, then you should take Sanderson because he's a WORLD better defensively.

I'm not taking Guhle over Chabot, nor am I taking Reinbacher (major bust alert?) over Yakemchuk.

I'm not taking Montembeault and Fowler over Ullmark and Merilainen either. Ullmark is at his peak and perfectly aligns with the Sens' (hopeful) window.

When it comes to secondary pieces? Probably the Habs here; this is where the Sens bleeding draft picks and capital has really come to bite us. Though, the Sens centre depth blows the Habs out of the water.

Habs are still playing DJ Smith run-and-gun Hockey too, which is another plateau of development that the Habs need to reach. It's easy to put up points and go streaking when you aren't playing complete Hockey.


Haha, ok Freud :)
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Not playing complete hockey? We've basically shut down some of the best teams in the league the last 15 games. You can have your opinion on things but the Canadiens are playing strong hockey right now just a quick glance at the box scores is enough to show that
 
I'd lean toward the Sens. They've got the biggest pieces in place already. They've got the true 1C and 1D that Montreal is lacking. But the Habs depth of young talent is much better. So it could easily go the other way.
 
biturbo19 said:
I'd lean toward the Sens. They've got the biggest pieces in place already. They've got the true 1C and 1D that Montreal is lacking. But the Habs depth of young talent is much better. So it could easily go the other way.
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If only MTL could find a 20 year old dman who is about to pass that Ottawa #1's career high in points with under 50 games played. Maybe also a centre who has produced more than that Ottawa centre over the last 2 years with a better defensive game. Then they would really be ahead.
 
Doom Bot said:
If only MTL could find a 20 year old dman who is about to pass that Ottawa #1's career high in points with under 50 games played. Maybe also a centre who has produced more than that Ottawa centre over the last 2 years with a better defensive game. Then they would really be ahead.
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It's almost like a defenders first responsibility isn't scoring...
 
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biturbo19 said:
I'd lean toward the Sens. They've got the biggest pieces in place already. They've got the true 1C and 1D that Montreal is lacking. But the Habs depth of young talent is much better. So it could easily go the other way.
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Who's the sens true 1C, which the habs is lacking? Stutzle? The same player who rarely takes faceoffs and who has produced at the same rate as Suzuki the last 2 seasons while being far worse defensively?
 
Kudo Shinichi said:
Who's the sens true 1C, which the habs is lacking? Stutzle? The same player who rarely takes faceoffs and who has produced at the same rate as Suzuki the last 2 seasons while being far worse defensively?
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I mean, yeah...it's the younger player who has produced at a higher rate than Suzuki has ever managed. I really like Suzuki, he's a good player...but honestly, he's a 1b at best. His ceiling is pretty capped there and i don't think it's reasonable to expect much of anything more than PPG in a good year playing 1C PP1 cherry minutes. Stutzle has the ability to push beyond that, and he's already actually done it.


The lack of a true 1C is really the biggest hole in the Habs rebuild. And that's not a sleight on Suzuki...it's just...the reality, that if you want to build a perennial contender, you need a top Center who can push beyond what Suzuki is capable of.
 
biturbo19 said:
I mean, yeah...it's the younger player who has produced at a higher rate than Suzuki has ever managed. I really like Suzuki, he's a good player...but honestly, he's a 1b at best. His ceiling is pretty capped there and i don't think it's reasonable to expect much of anything more than PPG in a good year playing 1C PP1 cherry minutes. Stutzle has the ability to push beyond that, and he's already actually done it.


The lack of a true 1C is really the biggest hole in the Habs rebuild. And that's not a sleight on Suzuki...it's just...the reality, that if you want to build a perennial contender, you need a top Center who can push beyond what Suzuki is capable of.
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Stutzle is great. Certainly more valuable than Suzuki and most unbiased Habs fans would agree. People are pushing back at the ridiculous claim that Suzuki isn't a 1C when he is something like 11 or 12th in centre scoring over the last 2 seasons while taking hard matchups and being a strong defensive player. It's just a ridiculous claim that negates everything else you say.
 
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Bouboumaster said:
Suzuki > Stützle or Tkachuck or whatever
Hutson > Sanderson
Monty < Ullmark
Mtl Prospects bank >> Ott Prospects bank
Mtl Front Office >> Ott Front Office

Montréal is also younger and can get free agents

Montréal is trending up, Ottawa is trending to Buffalo Land
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Montreal can get free agents? There was Tyler Toffoli and then… who else? Ben Chiarot?

99% of good UFAs will have no interest in playing for Montreal, just like Ottawa.

It’s just as cold, just as Canadian, just as high taxes but also has whacko media and language laws.

Also what’s Jeff Gorton ever won? He built a soft NY team and was fired because they kept getting bullied? And Kent Hughes is a rookie GM who was an agent a couple years ago? Not exactly a platinum level front office my friend.
 
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Doom Bot said:
If only MTL could find a 20 year old dman who is about to pass that Ottawa #1's career high in points with under 50 games played. Maybe also a centre who has produced more than that Ottawa centre over the last 2 years with a better defensive game. Then they would really be ahead.
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A 5’8 160lb defenseman who doesn’t defend cannot be a #1. Good gadget player though.
 
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Doom Bot said:
Stutzle is great. Certainly more valuable than Suzuki and most unbiased Habs fans would agree. People are pushing back at the ridiculous claim that Suzuki isn't a 1C when he is something like 11 or 12th in centre scoring over the last 2 seasons while taking hard matchups and being a strong defensive player. It's just a ridiculous claim that negates everything else you say.
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I mean, do you honestly believe Suzuki has the headroom to be a true #1C on a perennial contender team? He's great, but he's in that sort of...Krejci tier to me. Great player but if you're gonna build a contender around him, it's gonna have to have another guy playing a 1a/1b sort of setup.

Stutzle to me, has the ceiling to be right up in that true 1C territory. It's not really a shot at Suzuki, it's just an honest assessment of where his ceiling is.
 
biturbo19 said:
I mean, do you honestly believe Suzuki has the headroom to be a true #1C on a perennial contender team? He's great, but he's in that sort of...Krejci tier to me. Great player but if you're gonna build a contender around him, it's gonna have to have another guy playing a 1a/1b sort of setup.

Stutzle to me, has the ceiling to be right up in that true 1C territory. It's not really a shot at Suzuki, it's just an honest assessment of where his ceiling is.
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You can build a contender team with Suzuki as a #1C. Saying you can't is simply not true. They were able to go in the final when Suzuki wasn't even to close the player he is now. They are plenty of team who one the cup with a comparable #1C.
 
Not an easy vote but i did MTL, players like Heineman, Matheson, Guhle and Hutson makes me think they have a better future, drop in red hot Laine, Suzuki, Caufield etc. and i think it's actually a good team.

For OTT, Brady and Stutzle surely are studs, but Norris is making way too much, Pinto has still not proven himself etc.
 
bud12 said:
You can build a contender team with Suzuki as a #1C. Saying you can't is simply not true. They were able to go in the final when Suzuki wasn't even to close the player he is now. They are plenty of team who one the cup with a comparable #1C.
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That Cup appearance was a joke and everybody outside Quebec knows it lol.

Nevermind that they made it on the backs of Price and Weber playing some of the best hockey of their lives, not Suzuki.
 
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FriendlyGhost92 said:
That Cup appearance was a joke and everybody outside Quebec knows it lol.

Nevermind that they made it on the backs of Price and Weber playing some of the best hockey of their lives, not Suzuki.
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Even if it was a joke, they still made it. And Suzuki was the biggest reason after Price, not Weber. Vegas got their cup when Eichel wasn't even a ppg center, Blues got their cup when Oreilly was their 1C. Was got their cup with Kuznetsov and a old Backstrom.
 
bud12 said:
Even if it was a joke, they still made it. And Suzuki was the biggest reason after Price, not Weber. Vegas got their cup when Eichel wasn't even a ppg center, Blues got their cup when Oreilly was their 1C. Was got their cup with Kuznetsov and a old Backstrom.
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"Even if it was a joke they still made it" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the idea that it can be done. Sure. It could happen again if we have a mass pandemic turning the entire schedule to division exclusive games and you're in a shit division where you can finish with a terrible record but still make the playoffs...

Point being, Montreal's asterisked Cup appearance is way too easy to poke holes in. If you want a good example to support the idea that a Suzuki level center could take a team to the Cup, look at ROR with St. Louis.
 
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Bigtrout said:
That's cute, those playoffs were awesome but you wouldn't know
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Oh I have no doubt you loved it! It's not every day that you can be a mediocre team but have the rules and division alignment changed to sneak you into the playoffs.

Doesn't change that a .527 record is the worst for a playoff qualifier in the entire Salary Cap era. Nor does it change the fact that Montreal's record in normal conference alignment would've had them golfing in mid-April during a normal season.

But cling to that asterisk, buddy! I probably would too if it's the only relevant thing my team did in the last 30 years. :laugh:
 
bud12 said:
Even if it was a joke, they still made it. And Suzuki was the biggest reason after Price, not Weber. Vegas got their cup when Eichel wasn't even a ppg center, Blues got their cup when Oreilly was their 1C. Was got their cup with Kuznetsov and a old Backstrom.
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Heck, i'd put Danault playing some unreal defensive hockey ahead of Suzuki in reasons that propelled the Habs to that weird pop-up Finals appearance.

But more importantly, it was a Cinderella run through and through. What i'm talking about, is building a perennial contender. And for that...i just don't think Suzuki is good enough. Unless you manage to find another Suzuki-caliber Center and run that sort of 1a/1b configuration.
 
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