Habs vs Sens

[hardcorehabs]

It’s too early but in 2-3 seasons, I expect Habs to be in a better spot. Kent Hughes is cooking

 

[Fatass]

Habs gave Hutson on the back end and Suzuki at centre. Imo those are two key difference makers the Sens don’t have.

 

[Sting]

I think Montreal has more assets throughout the org but I'd say Sens have the best forward (Stutzle), d-man (Sanderson) and goalie (Ullmark).

It's unfortunate that Dorion tried to rush the rebuild because they really should have another high end top 4 D and top 6 forward in the system with the assets they lost.

 

[EveryDay]

MTL is stronger at every position outside of current goaltending because of Ullmark. However MTL have the best goaltending prospect between both team in Jacob Fowler.

Even without Laine for the majority of the season MTL is ahead of Ottawa in scoring so far this year and this is without Demidov, Hage, Beck, Roy.

Who's Ottawa best prospect at the forward position? Ostapchuck?? I'm not sure he would be in mtl top 10 prospect honestly.

I'll take MTL defenceman + prospect as well.

Hutson
Guhle
Matheson
Carrier
Xhekaj
Reinbacher
Engstrom
Mailloux

Versus

Sanderson
Chabot
Zub
Jensen
Kleven
Yakemchuk
Eliasson
Hamara

The sens will also lose their 1st round pick this year or next while mtl have 2 x 1st this year + 2 x 2nd.

Habs 》》Sens

 

[Golden_Jet]

MTL is stronger at every position outside of current goaltending because of Ullmark. However MTL have the best goaltending prospect between both team in Jacob Fowler.

Even without Laine for the majority of the season MTL is ahead of Ottawa in scoring so far this year and this is without Demidov, Hage, Beck, Roy.

Who's Ottawa best prospect at the forward position? Ostapchuck?? I'm not sure he would be in mtl top 10 prospect honestly.

I'll take MTL defenceman + prospect as well.

Hutson
Guhle
Matheson
Carrier
Xhekaj
Reinbacher
Engstrom
Mailloux

Versus

Sanderson
Chabot
Zub
Jensen
Kleven
Yakemchuk
Eliasson
Hamara

The sens will also lose their 1st round pick this year or next while mtl have 2 x 1st this year + 2 x 2nd.

Habs 》》Sens

Ottawa currently stronger at centre, defense and goalie.

 

[SensontheRush]

Lol, two weeks ago and this would have been the Sens by a landslide.

Unsurprisingly, this heater has filled Habsheads with hot air.

 

[EveryDay]

Ottawa currently stronger at centre, defense and goalie.

So everywhere outside of wingers but only 1 whopping points ahead? Yeah ok.

 

[Doom Bot]

Ottawa currently stronger at centre, defense and goalie.

Why are they not further ahead of MTL in the standings in your opinion?

 

[EveryDay]

Lol, two weeks ago and this would have been the Sens by a landslide.

Unsurprisingly, this heater has filled Habsheads with hot air.

Ottawa finished last season 1 points ahead of MTL and again this year they are 1 pts ahead of them at mid season, how the hell is Ottawa winning by a landslide?

MTL have a top3 pool of prospect in the NHL and Ottawa is bottom 5. Ottawa don't have a 1st this year while MTL have 2. MTL is also 2nd youngest team in the NHL while ottawa is 12th.

MTL is also ahead in goal scoring far this season without our best goalscorer for 75% of the season.

Ottawa should be ahead of MTL this year, its the 8th year of their rebuild while it's MTL 4th year, so of course Ottawa should be ahead, however after tonight's game, MTL might be ahead.

The original question from the OP was, who's in better shape for the future, the answer imo is pretty clear.

Montreal.

 

[Bileur]

A few years ago I’d have said Sens but it’s really close if not Habs moving forward.

I still think Stutzle ends up being the best forward on either team but Demidov has the potential to match him.

Two big factors in the gap closing are:

1) the emergence of Lane Hutson as I didn’t think the Habs had any legit 1D prospects. Lane seems to be overcoming the odds as a little guy.

2) the fall off of Josh Norris, mostly due to injury and continued development of Suzuki,. A few years ago I saw these two trending in the same direction. Suzuki has pulled away significantly.

You said Suzuki was a better skater,
He’s not,
it’s likely you meant to say better player, scorer, something along those lines.

I think he meant skater as in non goalie.

 

[HabzSauce]

I think Montreal has more assets throughout the org but I'd say Sens have the best forward (Stutzle), d-man (Sanderson) and goalie (Ullmark).

It's unfortunate that Dorion tried to rush the rebuild because they really should have another high end top 4 D and top 6 forward in the system with the assets they lost.

Ullmark is overrated and injury prone. Id much rather Habs goaltending with Montembeault & Dobes, with Fowler and Volohkin looking promising as well

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I like Ottawa more just because their center depth is far better than Montreal's, who is kinda built on the wings.

But Ottawa severely f***ed up by calling the rebuild early and trading high picks for guys like Debrincat/Chychrun/Ullmark. Nevermind that, outside 2020, their drafting has been rancid since Brady was picked.

They built a good core and haven't drafted well to supplement them to get over the hump.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Why are they not further ahead of MTL in the standings in your opinion?

You will break him

 

[SensontheRush]

Ottawa finished last season 1 points ahead of MTL and again this year they are 1 pts ahead of them at mid season, how the hell is Ottawa winning by a landslide?

MTL have a top3 pool of prospect in the NHL and Ottawa is bottom 5. Ottawa don't have a 1st this year while MTL have 2. MTL is also 2nd youngest team in the NHL while ottawa is 12th.

MTL is also ahead in goal scoring far this season without our best goalscorer for 75% of the season.

Ottawa should be ahead of MTL this year, its the 8th year of their rebuild while it's MTL 4th year, so of course Ottawa should be ahead, however after tonight's game, MTL might be ahead.

The original question from the OP was, who's in better shape for the future, the answer imo is pretty clear.

Montreal.

Exactly, you are using a bunch of metrics from this season that just two weeks ago looked incredibly unfavourable.

Let's just line up the quality assets each team has that should be good for at least another decade+:

Ottawa: Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson, Batherson, Norris, Chabot, Pinto, Yakemchuk

Montreal: Suzuki, Hutson, Demidov, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Laine, Guhle, Fowler

You can throw in Heinemen, Roy, Mailloux too, doesn't really matter; there is just no reason to take that second group over the first group.

And then you consider Greig, Halliday, Merilainen, Ostapchuk, Reinhardt, Montgomery now for the Sens, and then it just becomes silly.

Yes, Montreal has a better pick spread, but right now, until those picks are made, its the Sens EASILY.

 

[Habano]

Habs AINEC.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Habs AINEC.

It kinda is.

Difference is Habs haven't jumped the gun on theirs yet.

 

[EveryDay]

Exactly, you are using a bunch of metrics from this season that just two weeks ago looked incredibly unfavourable.

Let's just line up the quality assets each team has that should be good for at least another decade+:

Ottawa: Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson, Batherson, Norris, Chabot, Pinto, Yakemchuk

Montreal: Suzuki, Hutson, Demidov, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Laine, Guhle, Fowler

You can throw in Heinemen, Roy, Mailloux too, doesn't really matter; there is just no reason to take that second group over the first group.

And then you consider Greig, Halliday, Merilainen, Ostapchuk, Reinhardt, Montgomery now for the Sens, and then it just becomes silly.

Yes, Montreal has a better pick spread, but right now, until those picks are made, its the Sens EASILY.

The 2nd group is way better....the players you add just suck, Greig is barely a 4th liner, Ostapchuk is not even nhl level. Halliday??? Wow it's depressing...

Norris is producing at the same clip as Jake Evans lol, maybe I should add him since you put him in your top guns haha.

Suzuki Demidov Caufield Laine Slafkovski Hage is way more impressive then Stutzle Tkachuk, Pinto and Batherson, its so thin for Ottawa that it's scary after all these rebuilding years.

Offence is MTL by far for the future.

Defenceman :

Chabot is not even better then Matheson....

Hutson is ahead of Sanderson this year as a 20 yo.

Who's left for Ottawa? Jensen ? Zub? They are not as good as Guhle and Carrier.

Yakemchuk? Ok well Reinbacher is as good a prospect. Who's left for Ottawa? Not much.... MTL still have Engstrom and Mailloux.

EZ win again for MTL.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

The 2nd group is way better....the players you add just suck, Greig is barely a 4th liner, Ostapchuk is not even nhl level. Halliday??? Wow it's depressing...

Norris is producing at the same clip as Jake Evans lol, maybe I should add him since you put him in your top guns haha.

Suzuki Demidov Caufield Laine Slafkovski Hage is way more impressive then Stutzle Tkachuk, Pinto and Batherson, its so thin for Ottawa that it's scary after all these rebuilding years.

Offence is MTL by far for the future.

Defenceman :

Chabot is not even better then Matheson....

Hutson is ahead of Sanderson this year as a 20 yo.

Who's left for Ottawa? Jensen ? Zub? They are not as good as Guhle and Carrier.

Yakemchuk? Ok well Reinbacher is as good a prospect. Who's left for Ottawa? Not much.... MTL still have Engstrom and Mailloux.

EZ win again for MTL.

I'd take the group of Stutzle, Tkachuk, and Sanderson over Suzuki, Caufield, and Hutson/Guhle rather easily, so Ottawa's top end talent wins.

But Montreal has way more rounds in the chamber right now. Top 5 prospect pool in the league versus bottom 10 at best.

 

[EveryDay]

I'd take the group of Stutzle, Tkachuk, and Sanderson over Suzuki, Caufield, and Hutson/Guhle rather easily, so Ottawa's top end talent wins.

But Montreal has way more rounds in the chamber right now. Top 5 prospect pool in the league versus bottom 10 at best.

You can take the Sens trio but since last year Suzuki is better then Stutzle offensively defensively and in the face-off circle.

Tkachuk is better then Caufield for sure, that one I agree but right now Sanderson is terrible, He's Ottawa 3rd best defenceman behind Chabot and Jensen while Hutson is mtl best defenceman.

Suzuki = Stutzle
Caufield < Tkachuk
Hutson > Sanderson

As I said MTL now and in the future.

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

I'd take the group of Stutzle, Tkachuk, and Sanderson over Suzuki, Caufield, and Hutson/Guhle rather easily, so Ottawa's top end talent wins.

But Montreal has way more rounds in the chamber right now. Top 5 prospect pool in the league versus bottom 10 at best.

Agree with this sorta. But if Demidov pans out the way I think he should then I’d take montreals top end talent pretty easily. Right now it’s close

Stutzle Suzuki gap has been closing every year. The only real large gap Ottawa has an advantage with is tkachuck >> caufield. I can see teams taking Sanderson over Hutson because of personal preference but I definitely don’t give the edge to the sens on that one

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

You can take the Sens trio but since last year Suzuki is better then Stutzle offensively defensively and in the face-off circle.

Tkachuk is better then Caufield for sure, that one I agree but right now Sanderson is terrible, He's Ottawa 3rd best defenceman behind Chabot and Jensen while Hutson is mtl best defenceman.

Suzuki = Stutzle
Caufield < Tkachuk
Hutson > Sanderson

As I said MTL now and in the future.

I'll give you Suzuki being better defensively, but offensively they've both produced essentially the exact same over the last season and a half. (Stutzle technically a better PPG) Then account for Stutzle being three years younger...

Agree with this sorta. But if Demidov pans out the way I think he should then I’d take montreals top end talent pretty easily. Right now it’s close

Stutzle Suzuki gap has been closing every year. The only real large gap Ottawa has an advantage with is tkachuck >> caufield. I can see teams taking Sanderson over Hutson because of personal preference but I definitely don’t give the edge to the sens on that one

The shift is in how Montreal's prospect pool pans out and if Hughes is patient and doesn't start trading futures to jump the gun like Dorion did.

Because I like Ottawa's core better, but their prospect pool is junk and guys like Greig and Pinto aren't the significant pieces Sens fans were hyping them up to be.

 

[EveryDay]

I'll give you Suzuki being better defensively, but offensively they've both produced essentially the exact same over the last season and a half. (Stutzle technically a better PPG) Then account for Stutzle being three years younger...



The shift is in how Montreal's prospect pool pans out and if Hughes is patient and doesn't start trading futures to jump the gun like Dorion did.

Because I like Ottawa's core better, but their prospect pool is junk and guys like Greig and Pinto aren't the significant pieces Sens fans were hyping them up to be.

Oh he's 3 younger I know but as you said, they produce at the same clip for the last 120 games while Suzuki is way better defensively, meaning he's the better player at the moment.

When you take into consideration the prospect pool at the moment + the pick upcoming this year in 2025, the gap is enormous.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Oh he's 3 younger I know but as you said, they produce at the same clip for the last 120 games while Suzuki is way better defensively, meaning he's the better player at the moment.

When you take into consideration the prospect pool at the moment + the pick upcoming this year in 2025, the gap is enormous.

Overall yes, I'd say Suzuki is better over the last season and a half. I'd still take Stutzle going forward.

Prospect pool easily goes to Montreal, but the 2025 pick is a wash. Montreal and Ottawa currently have a point separating them and Ottawa can still punt their pick forfeiture to 2026. The wild card is, does Calgary fall off and that pick they gave up to dump Monahan gains a lot more value?

Also, don't be surprised if Ottawa's punishment for the Dadonov thing is later reduced. They did it with NJD's punishment for the Kovalchuk contract. Sure they didn't with Arizona, but Arizona also deliberately cheated and tested players outside the combine. Ottawa's violation was negligence more than deliberate mischief. I can see the NHL coming back in 2026 and saying "You can have a 1st at the end of the round" like they did with New Jersey.

 

[thebestnic]

Sens core is better than ours and that does matter a lot, but I like our depth/prospect pool a lot more

Sens fairly easily. Their guys have all developed and we know what they have. With the Habs, while Suzuki has shown he is a good player, none of their other guys have shown they are on the same level as Tkachuk, Stutzle etc.

I don't think that's a feature though. We know what they have and it has barely been enough to be a pretender. How will they contend with a capped out team and a bad prospect pool ?

 

[Habano]

The 2nd group is way better....the players you add just suck, Greig is barely a 4th liner, Ostapchuk is not even nhl level. Halliday??? Wow it's depressing...

Norris is producing at the same clip as Jake Evans lol, maybe I should add him since you put him in your top guns haha.

Suzuki Demidov Caufield Laine Slafkovski Hage is way more impressive then Stutzle Tkachuk, Pinto and Batherson, its so thin for Ottawa that it's scary after all these rebuilding years.

Offence is MTL by far for the future.

Defenceman :

Chabot is not even better then Matheson....

Hutson is ahead of Sanderson this year as a 20 yo.

Who's left for Ottawa? Jensen ? Zub? They are not as good as Guhle and Carrier.

Yakemchuk? Ok well Reinbacher is as good a prospect. Who's left for Ottawa? Not much.... MTL still have Engstrom and Mailloux.

EZ win again for MTL.

Don't forget that other offensive dynamo Pinto who is also in that first group