Post-Game Talk: Habs VS Leafs | Septembre 25th - 7pm | RDS

[Estimated_Prophet]

I agree, he isn’t NHL calibre

Primeau was never going to be an instant success in the NHL. He just turned 22 and will likely need 2-3 more years to fully develop which is why I am opposed to wasting picks on goalies. Obviously in Primeau's case I was fine with a late pick, as was also the case with Vrbetic and Dichow but anything in the first 3 rounds outside of an absolute phenom is a ultra low percentage waste.

 

[Riddick412]

I thought McNiven looked good other than the give away goal. Would like to see him start a game.

 

[Tyson]

No.. only replying to the question regarding “what depth do the Habs have”.

Habs team depth is based on W and in nets.

As for Poehling, can’t read too much into a single training camp game and definitely not based on stat sheet.

The question IMO, is whether there will be visible progression in Poehling’s game over the course of training camp to secure himself a spot or at the very least make it a tough decision for the org

The good thing with Poehling is that he is still young and if he needs more AHL time, so be it.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

Damn reading all the people complaining about the game results and this lineup, I mean, come on.

With an optimistic twist, we simply gave them another 'morale' victory, cause that's all they're good for in the end, while we'll still manage to shatter their dreams at the end of the regular season !

Ok I'm out.

 

[EXPOS123]

Poehling with 60ish AHL games is a bust?

Yes, he is

 

[smcgreg]

CC did great , nothing to add.
The D is a big problem , Petry is our only puck moving d-man. He will have to play 30min a game so we can get a chance.

But if you compare

Toffoli-Suzuki-Caufield
Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Anderson
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Lekhonen-Evans-Armia
(Perry)

Into
Toffoli-Suzuki-Caufield
Drouin-Dvorak-Gallagher
Hoffman-Evans-Anderson
Lekhonen-(Perreault/Paquette)-Armia
(Byron injured)

This team aint better offensively and the center position is weaker.
I will be really surprised if Toffoli repeat his fluke season. He'A 35-45 points player most of his career and last year he produced into 60 points+.
Suzuki will probably improve once more so its a positive for his case
Caufield will be better also that's for sure.
Drouin , we know the drill , he will get a streaky 7-8 games and dissapears once more for 30 games.
Dvorak is a 40 points player at best.
Gallagher needs to restart rushing the net and stop shooting from 0 angle positions for him to be effective.
Hoffman is Tatar but with a better shot and but with less passing plays
Evans never showed any offensive talent , we'll see how he handle this , but my hope for him was a good 4th liner center with good speed and good defensive ability and not much.
Anderson I don't expect any improvement , alot of people said he was injured during the playoff which he wasnt.
4th line is heavily paid for what they bring.

But the big problem is not being able to find again another puck moving d-man. We went for another Gustafsson.

There is not even a spot unless injuries , for someone to take a spot in this team , defensively or offensively. Literally 0 spot.


I really hope Romanov , Fairbrother , Norlinder or anyone else the pipeline can bring something and make it better this season ,we need those prospects to help the team. We need fresh air!!

Your comparison really isn't valid. We're talking about regular season now and CC is a HUGE add. He wasn't there in the regular season. NS also made a step in the POs. So, this regular season team isn't as good as the team that made it to the SCF? OK, I'll grant you that. They are a better regular season team than last year without a doubt.

You have a pessimistic view...... injuries will always be the wildcard, but...
Toffoli will be comparable to last season
CC will add 20 goals to the team total I am sure, likely more.
NS will be better than last season.
DVO will most certainly score more than Danault
Hoffman will add goals.

How you can say "ain't better offensively and weaker at center" ... is a bit mystifying.

I will grant you the problem on defense. It has been an historical problem though. So, on D, the team has the same issues it has always had and will be more potent on offense. To me, that's better team. Whether or not another PMD comes from within or by trade down the road, it would help, but the team is still better than last regular season and will be potent offensively.

Feel free to come back to this in 4 months and point out if I'm wrong.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Every sentence in your post is, as you would say....."hot garbage"

The fact that you would somehow make a conclusion about our depth in the 1st game of pre-season because AHLers were playing informs the reader that you are entirely devoid of knowledge with regards to how the pre-season works for every team.

Then to anoint Poehling as a bust based solely on this game despite coming off of a great season in Laval is equally as obtuse.

Anyone taking anything of consequence from this particular game is entirely without credibility.....end of story.

I agree. To reach any conclusions after the first exhibition game is wholly if not reflexively, premature. That being said, it would have been organizationally wise more promising to have won 4-1 than to lose by the same score. What I found troubling was, from an eye test perspective, most of the players who played last night and were being counted on to form part of the team’s depth, failed to impress.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Our best player and leader Jonathan Drouin was not playing so...

 

[smcgreg]

Maybe. But the years of mediocre drafting are coming home to roost. Unless Price can sustain his all world goaltending for long stretches during the season, this team, even with all its supposed ‘depth’, will be hard pressed to make the playoffs.

Again, I think the F depth is pretty solid. Byron should be back by midseason if JD can't pull it together.

Allen will need to carry a lot of water during the regular season no doubt. I agree with the sentiment from the commentators last night, that CP will be used much less during the regular season to be healthier/fresher near the end. That being said, Allen is a decent "backup". A third goalie will need to be solid as well though. There are definitely a lot of question marks, but F depth is not one of them if you ask me. The D will be on par or better than last regular season.... it will be a tough conference, but they will score a lot of goals and will get more points toward the POs. We shall see.

 

[EXPOS123]

Depth at W and in nets provided by the Habs 23-man final roster

Gallagher, Drouin, Anderson, Hoffman, Armia all regulars missing from the lineup.

Lekhonen + Armia is top-2 for 4th line in the league (at or just behind Isles)

Price + Allen is the best tandem in the league

Gallagher, God bless him, is another concussion away from having his career derailed, and he is already showing the signs of years of physical abuse. Sorry, but giving him an extension was dumb. Drouin, who the hell knows what to expect at this point, Anderson too...some nights he looks like a beast, some others he is invisible. We still don't know what to expect from him as his career has been a rollercoaster ride until now due to injuries. Armia i already went on record as saying that was a bad signing...a 30 point player who shows dominance for a few games and then dissappears for the next 10. Hoffman...well he's a slightly better offensive version of Tatar and he's already injured.

As for Price and Allen, oof, at 34 and after all his injuries, Price is no longer top 10 as evidenced by his play in the regular season the past 4 years. (yes, i admit, he had an otherwordly playoffs, but to expect that to carry into a full season after another injury is foolish IMO). And Allen, while he started good, started to revert back to his average play towards the end.

Sorry, but that isn't depth, that's hoping on a wing and a prayer that everyone defies the norm and stay healthy and have career years, which is not realistic.

 

[Le Tricolore]

Yes, he is

I really don't understand your way of thinking. It's really stupid to think that Ryan Poehling is a bust at this point. He looked pretty good last year in his second pro season. Would've been on the playoff roster if he wasn't hurt.

 

[flying v 604]

Your comparison really isn't valid. We're talking about regular season now and CC is a HUGE add. He wasn't there in the regular season. NS also made a step in the POs. So, this regular season team isn't as good as the team that made it to the SCF? OK, I'll grant you that. They are a better regular season team than last year without a doubt.

You have a pessimistic view...... injuries will always be the wildcard, but...
Toffoli will be comparable to last season
CC will add 20 goals to the team total I am sure, likely more.
NS will be better than last season.
DVO will most certainly score more than Danault
Hoffman will add goals.

How you can say "ain't better offensively and weaker at center" ... is a bit mystifying.

I will grant you the problem on defense. It has been an historical problem though. So, on D, the team has the same issues it has always had and will be more potent on offense. To me, that's better team. Whether or not another PMD comes from within or by trade down the road, it would help, but the team is still better than last regular season and will be potent offensively.

Feel free to come back to this in 4 months and point out if I'm wrong.

TT has hit 30 goals twice in his career,
it's unlikely at his age he's all of a sudden gotten better than when he was in his early prime year's. Last season was an outlier and to expect that again over 82 games is a big ask.

 

[EXPOS123]

Every sentence in your post is, as you would say....."hot garbage"

The fact that you would somehow make a conclusion about our depth in the 1st game of pre-season because AHLers were playing informs the reader that you are entirely devoid of knowledge with regards to how the pre-season works for every team.

Then to anoint Poehling as a bust based solely on this game despite coming off of a great season in Laval is equally as obtuse.

Anyone taking anything of consequence from this particular game is entirely without credibility.....end of story.

Answer my scenario...if Suzuki or Petry are out for an extended period of time, what happens? Sure, you can throw in any warm body just to manage until they come back, but i'm talking about what production you would get with their suppossed replacements. Tell me who is going to come close to replacing Petry's or Suzuki's output.

I cannot sit here and let people tell me that we have depth than the middle ....our 1 and 2 centers, if you are being totally honest with yourself, do not stack up against most teams (I would even say they are perfect #2 and 3 centers)...and then to round that out with a collection of scrubs like Paquette, Dauphin, Poehling, Perrault and Evans?

We have the worst collection of centerman ice in the league

 

[Adam Michaels]

Answer my scenario...if Suzuki or Petry are out for an extended period of time, what happens? Sure, you can throw in any warm body just to manage until they come back, but i'm talking about what production you would get with their suppossed replacements. Tell me who is going to come close to replacing Petry's or Suzuki's output.

I cannot sit here and let people tell me that we have depth than the middle ....our 1 and 2 centers, if you are being totally honest with yourself, do not stack up against most teams (I would even say they are perfect #2 and 3 centers)...and then to round that out with a collection of scrubs like Paquette, Dauphin, Poehling, Perrault and Evans?

We have the worst collection of centerman ice in the league

There are very few teams (maybe 2 or 3 in the entire league) that can lose their top players in key positions and still not miss a beat.

 

[BLONG7]

Answer my scenario...if Suzuki or Petry are out for an extended period of time, what happens? Sure, you can throw in any warm body just to manage until they come back, but i'm talking about what production you would get with their suppossed replacements. Tell me who is going to come close to replacing Petry's or Suzuki's output.

I cannot sit here and let people tell me that we have depth than the middle ....our 1 and 2 centers, if you are being totally honest with yourself, do not stack up against most teams (I would even say they are perfect #2 and 3 centers)...and then to round that out with a collection of scrubs like Paquette, Dauphin, Poehling, Perrault and Evans?

We have the worst collection of centerman ice in the league

Crosby/Letaing Matthews/Reilly Bergeron/MacAvoy..........the lists go on and on...
Losing your number 1 C and #1 D on ANY team, would be bad for petes sake....
Losing KK and Dano and their 5 goals each is not a big deal....Dvo replaces KK and Evans takes Dano's spot.....
No drama folks, we will be a better team this year than last.........which is not hard, because we were pretty bad the last 4-5 years...

Relax...

 

[salbutera]

Gallagher, God bless him, is another concussion away from having his career derailed, and he is already showing the signs of years of physical abuse. Sorry, but giving him an extension was dumb. Drouin, who the hell knows what to expect at this point, Anderson too...some nights he looks like a beast, some others he is invisible. We still don't know what to expect from him as his career has been a rollercoaster ride until now due to injuries. Armia i already went on record as saying that was a bad signing...a 30 point player who shows dominance for a few games and then dissappears for the next 10. Hoffman...well he's a slightly better offensive version of Tatar and he's already injured.

As for Price and Allen, oof, at 34 and after all his injuries, Price is no longer top 10 as evidenced by his play in the regular season the past 4 years. (yes, i admit, he had an otherwordly playoffs, but to expect that to carry into a full season after another injury is foolish IMO). And Allen, while he started good, started to revert back to his average play towards the end.

Sorry, but that isn't depth, that's hoping on a wing and a prayer that everyone defies the norm and stay healthy and have career years, which is not realistic.

??

Gallagher has net 30G+ each of last-2 seasons prior to Covid years, he prorated 30+ even during last two Covid seasons

Anderson will deliver 20-25G big body physicality as he’s done every year of his NHL career except the 1-season derailed by multiple injuries in CBJ.

Caufield + Hoffman will improve 3-on-3 OT / Shootout and PP - an upgrade from last years regular season team

As for Price, he’s had the best playoff sv PCR for any goalie with 25GP+ since 2014. Last playoffs was not different than the 202o, 2017, 2015 or 2014 playoffs.

None of the above is “hoping” its factual based on the players career trends

The strategy is to qualify for playoffs by outlasting divisional opponents based on 23-man roster depth over an 82-game season, that cannot be matched by any divisional opponent and only 1-other team in the Eastern Conf (Isles)

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I agree. To reach any conclusions after the first exhibition game is wholly if not reflexively, premature. That being said, it would have been organizationally wise more promising to have won 4-1 than to lose by the same score. What I found troubling was, from an eye test perspective, most of the players who played last night and were being counted on to form part of the team’s depth, failed to impress.

It just doesn't mean anything. Veteran's aren't even trying at this point. Listen to any vet talk about the preseason and they will tell you how little the results matter as it is essentially a glorified prsctice.

 

[EXPOS123]

Crosby/Letaing Matthews/Reilly Bergeron/MacAvoy..........the lists go on and on...
Losing your number 1 C and #1 D on ANY team, would be bad for petes sake....
Losing KK and Dano and their 5 goals each is not a big deal....Dvo replaces KK and Evans takes Dano's spot.....
No drama folks, we will be a better team this year than last.........which is not hard, because we were pretty bad the last 4-5 years...

Relax...

Of course every team that loses their #1 C and D suffers, but the point that i am trying to make is that a lot of those teams would find a half decent replacement either through a hot shot rookie coming up or a young guy already on the team taking the next step.

We have neither and so losing Suzuki means going from potentially 25 goals and setting up wingers to what exactly? Dvorak moves up with his career average of what 40 points and suddenly replaces Suzuki's numbers? And who replaces Dvorak etc...

Same with Petry...

 

[Miller Time]

There are very few teams (maybe 2 or 3 in the entire league) that can lose their top players in key positions and still not miss a beat.

Yup... they are called contenders & that's what any organization serious about excellence should be working towards relentlessly.

Everything else is mediocrity

 

[WeThreeKings]

He missed his guy a goal, happens to every player.

Saw plenty of passes that he stopped in his zone to take back possession.

And if you read my post a couple of messages up you can see the chances the he was involved in.

You never liked Poehling from the beginning, so it’s easy for you to keep hitting the nail. I don’t see how it was terrible showing on his part. He was the best center on face offs by far, he went to the net and got a couple of chances.

Anyways I won’t try to change your mind on this, cause it was already set years ago when he was picked.

No, I didn't like Poehling from the beginning but I don't hold opinions forever. I always make evaluations on what I've seen and you can go back through posts over last year in the AHL where I mentioned seeing good things in Poehling's development, mainly around his speed and attacking mindset.

I loved Drouin in his draft year and fully am aware he's not a good NHL player. There's no bias held, things are decided on the ice.

He was not good last night. He wasn't good enough offensively and he was poor defensively. He needs to show an edge somewhere on either side of the puck to earn a spot out of camp and the first night for him was not nearly good enough.

 

[Miller Time]

Answer my scenario...if Suzuki or Petry are out for an extended period of time, what happens? Sure, you can throw in any warm body just to manage until they come back, but i'm talking about what production you would get with their suppossed replacements. Tell me who is going to come close to replacing Petry's or Suzuki's output.

I cannot sit here and let people tell me that we have depth than the middle ....our 1 and 2 centers, if you are being totally honest with yourself, do not stack up against most teams (I would even say they are perfect #2 and 3 centers)...and then to round that out with a collection of scrubs like Paquette, Dauphin, Poehling, Perrault and Evans?

We have the worst collection of centerman ice in the league

I don't know about "worse collection", but certainly bottom tier as far as this season is concerned.

& yeah, we are 1 or 2 key injuries away from lottery picking... this is the MB way

 

[admiralcadillac]

TT has hit 30 goals twice in his career,
it's unlikely at his age he's all of a sudden gotten better than when he was in his early prime year's. Last season was an outlier and to expect that again over 82 games is a big ask.

He’s 29 not 35

 

[EXPOS123]

??

Gallagher has net 30G+ each of last-2 seasons prior to Covid years, he prorated 30+ even during last two Covid seasons

Anderson will deliver 20-25G big body physicality as he’s done every year of his NHL career except the 1-season derailed by multiple injuries in CBJ.

Caufield + Hoffman will improve 3-on-3 OT / Shootout and PP - an upgrade from last years regular season team

As for Price, he’s had the best playoff sv PCR for any goalie with 25GP+ since 2014. Last playoffs was not different than the 202o, 2017, 2015 or 2014 playoffs.

None of the above is “hoping” its factual based on the players career trends

The strategy is to qualify for playoffs by outlasting divisional opponents based on 23-man roster depth over an 82-game season, that cannot be matched by any divisional opponent and only 1-other team in the Eastern Conf (Isles)

Caulfield is a rookie...we have no clue what to expect...teams will target him and punish him physically. Hoffman, we don't know either. He did not play well at the start with St.Louis - there is a reason why is on his fourth team in five years.

As for Price, you do realize there is a regular season that needs to be played right?

And did you see Gallagher down the stretch and the playoffs?

 

[Adam Michaels]

Yup... they are called contenders & that's what any organization serious about excellence should be working towards relentlessly.

Everything else is mediocrity

Okay. But those saying that Montreal is worse than everyone else if they lose two of their key players is operating in bad faith. Because they are assuming everyone else is deep and can overcome that situation.

 

[EXPOS123]

I don't know about "worse collection", but certainly bottom tier as far as this season is concerned.

& yeah, we are 1 or 2 key injuries away from lottery picking... this is the MB way

Thank you, that's all i'm saying, that other teams can weather key injuries and maybe drop a little...we can't and our "drop" is to dead last.