The ineptitude of a poster's favorite team has less than no bearing here.
Value of: Habs prospects and picks
- Thread starter waitin425
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The ineptitude of a poster's favorite team has less than no bearing here.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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If your system is overflowing with talent, why don't you just take a hint and trade the most painful one to part with, realizing that's what it will take to get your 2C?
There isn't another thread on here where a team has a young 2C but prefers a grab bag of other stuff.
I like Barron a lot... As a 4th liner. Not sure in what sense he'd be considered a "good 3rd line C" when he's never been top 9 in usage on the jets? And that's bolstered by being their leading PK fwd on a team with a bottom tier PK (& a Vezina caliber goalie).
I suspect you'll be quite disappointed in what a "fair" offer would be.
Our system is comfortably top 5 in prospect depth. It is indeed a position of strength after making the Eastern conference final.
Beyond our top 3 skating prospects we have some prospects that would be higher in other systems.
Kapanen just had an outstanding rookie year.
Pickford had a record setting year in the entire CHL.
Fowler...I acknowledge goalies are not valued as high at this stage in the game...but in terms of ceilings I actually rank him as our #1 prospect. He has top 10 goalie upside in the NHL.
Hardly a grab bag of other stuff. If for instance the Leafs had those same prospects and offered that deal...it would be seen as their top 3 prospects and thus garner a more "legit" reaction.
insane production for overagers in the WHL isn't that unheard of.
heck Pickford didn't even lead his own teams dcore in points per game. That would go to undrafted player Jonas Woo.
Until the Bruins get a better center than Zacha it's kind of hard to justify trading him.
Spearmint Rhino
Registered User
- Sep 17, 2013
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1/2 our board want to be patient and keep the status quo minus some deck chair shuffling
1/2 our board want to sell everything and smash open the contending window with deals for proven upgrades
1/2 our board (yeah we have 3 1/2s cause there's a large portion of bipolar participants
) want to do half measures where we are half pregnant going after projects and crossing our fingers the gamble pays off
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Yes, now go take the best thing you have and offer it up for the best thing you want.
Dallas Stars once needed a 2C to play behind Mike Modano. They got Joe Nieuwendyk in a 1 for 1.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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1/2 our board want to be patient and keep the status quo minus some deck chair shuffling
1/2 our board want to sell everything and smash open the contending window with deals for proven upgrades
1/2 our board (yeah we have 3 1/2s cause there's a large portion of bipolar participants
I would think the best bet is to try and convince Dylan Larkin to go to MTL and pay Detroit the price.
Hunter368
If it doesn’t challenge you, it doesn’t change you
- Nov 8, 2011
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Actually he played parts of this season at 3c (Lowry injury) and 4c and played wing in the bottom six (3rd and 4th lines in the past). He’s been converted and developed as a center over the last couple years. In the end, like I said Jets would want multi more guys like Barron, not less so they will sign him and keep him unless someone made an offer they can’t refuse for a player of his level. I wouldn’t be surprised by a new contract announcement this July extending him after next year. Fans have been asking to see him tried at 2c bc his younger, much faster, good defensively, etc compared to other guys they’ve tried the last couple years…….but old school coaching stops that, ugh. Going to be a very interesting summer for multiple reasons for the Jets.
None of these pieces are going to entice a team to trade away a player of the caliber/age you are asking for who hasn't requested a trade.
Look to players who are available/have actually requested a trade and go from there.
Quantity packages can get you a player a team has to trade, but it's not gonna convince a team to move a player they don't want to.
Look to players who are available/have actually requested a trade and go from there.
Quantity packages can get you a player a team has to trade, but it's not gonna convince a team to move a player they don't want to.
hamzarocks
Registered User
Guys that package can get (not all of it needed)
30 and under Centers:
1) Elias Pettersson
2) Mason McTavish (but I feel Ducks want to use him to get Larkin)
3) Ryan McLeod, but sabres are inter division rival
4) Pavel Zacha, another inter divison rival
5) Dylan Strome (if caps want to retool assets)
6) Morgan Frost ( a 1st would likely be enough, but hes not really a 2C).
7) Anthony Cirelli, but tampa is still trying to win and not rebuilding. Otherwise this would be a strong asset accumulation move for the bolts
Over 30 Cs
1) Zibanejad
2) Trochek
3) Nelson
4) RoR
5) Hertl (if he waives)
its a good package but realistically a team wouldnt want 5 pieces for an elite 2C
Pickford + 2 1sts + Fowler + Kapanen does have a lot of value, ant deny that.
It value wise should be close to a Larkin but DET is the team that would value Fowler as worthless due to goalie depth, and that hurts the offer.
30 and under Centers:
1) Elias Pettersson
2) Mason McTavish (but I feel Ducks want to use him to get Larkin)
3) Ryan McLeod, but sabres are inter division rival
4) Pavel Zacha, another inter divison rival
5) Dylan Strome (if caps want to retool assets)
6) Morgan Frost ( a 1st would likely be enough, but hes not really a 2C).
7) Anthony Cirelli, but tampa is still trying to win and not rebuilding. Otherwise this would be a strong asset accumulation move for the bolts
Over 30 Cs
1) Zibanejad
2) Trochek
3) Nelson
4) RoR
5) Hertl (if he waives)
its a good package but realistically a team wouldnt want 5 pieces for an elite 2C
Pickford + 2 1sts + Fowler + Kapanen does have a lot of value, ant deny that.
It value wise should be close to a Larkin but DET is the team that would value Fowler as worthless due to goalie depth, and that hurts the offer.
Because that's not what it will take...
Not sure what examples you are thinking of, or how little you know about the prospects listed, but a simple look at "2Cs" traded in recent years makes it clear that as few as 2 of the assets listed could very well land a 2C.
The bigger challenge is that not many established 2Cs under 30 get traded, not that the assets suggested will be inadequate.
There is rarely ever a thread on here that predicts trades accurately... What is more common is that quality for quantity deals happen far more than most posters like to admit, and in the summer, teams value picks & prospects more than this board thinks, and at the deadline vets & role players go for more than this board thinks they should.
That, and any Habs related thread gets filled with posts grossly underesting and under valuing the assets they have. Cue Ryder, Halak, 2nd posts.
Rinse repeat.
If the Caps were to make Wilson available, it would signal they are re-tooling, and the Habs would be a very good partner using a few of the pieces listed.
Flip The Bird
Registered User
It's gonna get you there for players teams are forced to trade (eg if you can get Larkin to waive for MTL), but it's not going to be enough to get teams to trade guys they actually like on their teams.
I've made my point on kapanen a few times, but I think he's a suckers bet for anyone who trades for him. He got the easiest deployment of any MTL forward and had the worst on ice results. Riding the coattails of Demidov and a shooting heater to post respectable looking box score numbers. Gonna have to find a foolish GM to take him on, which I won't pretend aren't out there.
Pickford, again nice and promising but I'd be wary about overage WHL production for dmen riding shotgun on teams with McKenna and then the ruck twins. Heck his undrafted teammate on D had more points than he did. Reminds me of Hunter Brz that year he was tearing up the OHL for kitchener and was included as the secondary piece for Elias Lindholm rental
Fowler yeah there's nothing else to say besides goalies do have limited value. He could fit in to trades like the Askarov or Seth Jones (knight) ones. I'd expect MTL to keep him tho
Boss Man Hughes
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- Mar 15, 2022
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Who the hell cares? he would have scored 50 goals a s a defenseman if he hadn't missed games with an injuury
Presumably teams looking to forecast players?
If I looked at a (WHL) team that had not 1 but 2 dman with limited pedigree put up gaudy statlines, it would raise some red flags on the legitness of those statlines and how they translate.
Markus Ruck is projected to go in the 2nd round, Liam Ruck is projected to go late 1st round, and I'd certainly say those 2 are the engines behind medicine hats success this year.
So if I'm valuing Pickford, where does that place him?
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Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
Then I hope they're ready to go into next season with essentially the same roster. Nobody is giving up an under 30 2C if literally all of the Habs top prospects are off the table.
- Jul 25, 2012
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Has nothing to do with “overvalue”
And everything to do with if we’re not getting an obvious upgrade or over pay , why not wait for his bounce backs
But just so we’re on the same page
Oliver kapanen was healthy scratched in the playoffs…. Mctavish was a +1 and had 6 points in 10, kapanen had 0 in 7 and was a -2
I know kapanen has the Montreal multiplier but jeeze man
Bobby Ryan Getzlaf
Puck Off!
I have no idea what Verbeek would or wouldn’t do after the Zegras trade, but I really don’t see value in giving up on McTavish for any of those players listed. He’s already proven he can be a good top six player yet he somehow became a terrible player in opposing fans’ eyes because he had a down season. If those pieces are all he could get back, I’d much rather gamble on him becoming the player he was projecting to be in his first three seasons opposed to what he was this past season. Hopefully, Verbeek feels the same way.
Caps aren't re-tooling and Wilson isn't available, but if he was, no combination of the pieces listed would get him. One of the Habs' top 3 prospects would be coming back in a package.
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