Habs Off-season discussion Part 4 (Your ****** proposals still go here)

[Bourne Endeavor]

Dustin Penner has 13 career goals in 78 play-off games. Pass.

For 1.5M that is good value. It's not like we'd be expecting top six productivity here.

 

[Talks to Goalposts]

I think our offensive depth is just fine. Bourque as a 3rd line winger is nothing to scoff at, especially given the fact that our offense isn't the driving force of this team.
We have one of the top goalies in the league, and a solid up and coming D core anchored by some experienced vets.

Hopefully Bourque finally puts a full season together, but even if he doesn't we have some young guys ready to fill that spot.
Andrighetto could be an option, but I really feel DLR is going to have a strong camp, and put himself near the top of the call up list.

Bourque, outside of some small stretches of good play, has been poison to his line's offense in Montreal. It's increadible how much everyone's goal scoring tends to die when playing with him for extended periods. For this reason, I think that most of the time he can't hack it even on a third line level. At best he has been functional on occassions where he was the definative 3rd best player on his line and he focuses on the things he can do well and isn't asked to do the things he can't. But we also have seen that in a role he seemed to be doing well at, plop a legit top sixer like Ryder on the line (even on his off wing) and the line gets better. If you're not bringing in a new winger, he won't have a significantly better winger on his line to carry him next season.

Most people are studiously ignoring this because he's coming off a good playoffs. But I like to take the longer view on players and have severe reservations about having him in a top nine role.

I also have strong reservations about penciling in a guy who was playing on a 3rd line in the SEL as a top nine forward for next year. DLR is promising, but their isn't that much to suggest he's really ready for prime time.

 

[S Bah]

Bourque, outside of some small stretches of good play, has been poison to his line's offense in Montreal. It's increadible how much everyone's goal scoring tends to die when playing with him for extended periods. For this reason, I think that most of the time he can't hack it even on a third line level. At best he has been functional on occassions where he was the definative 3rd best player on his line and he focuses on the things he can do well and isn't asked to do the things he can't. But we also have seen that in a role he seemed to be doing well at, plop a legit top sixer like Ryder on the line (even on his off wing) and the line gets better. If you're not bringing in a new winger, he won't have a significantly better winger on his line to carry him next season.

Most people are studiously ignoring this because he's coming off a good playoffs. But I like to take the longer view on players and have severe reservations about having him in a top nine role.

I also have strong reservations about penciling in a guy who was playing on a 3rd line in the SEL as a top nine forward for next year. DLR is promising, but their isn't that much to suggest he's really ready for prime time.

Much to the chagrin of old time Hab fans, LW has been the weak link in the Habs forward lineup for yrs. When Rene Bourque RW- PWF for Calgary Flames came to the Habs, a big LW that could play defensively was needed. So Rene became a LW definitely not his position, but it gave the Habs the winger necessary to play with Tomas Plekanec & Brian Gionta as a shut down line facing the opposition's best line while chipping in offensively. The signing of Jiri Sekac and the arrival of JDLR both LW's may finally give the Habs a LW capable of taking Bourque's spot on the Plekanec line freeing Bourque to play RW, where his best seasons were recorded.

This season of course is one of change for the Habs, slowly but patiently Bergevin has filled weak position's with older veterans, past their primes but willing to take reduced icetime. This helped the team adjust and be competitive until the young draft choices gained experience and were ready for the next step, this season marks that time. Players that were playing out of position(Gorges,Emelin, Bourque, etc.) have either moved on or will be able to play their natural position this season.

The addition of RD Weaver and RD Gilbert will finally allow the Habs the benefit of having a defence corps with defencemen playing their proper position.(Great for everyone) Also the hope being that one of Sekac or JDLR playing their natural LW position are capable of taking over for Bourque which frees him to play at his favorite RW/PWF position. The outcome of these moves is not only more competition for jobs, but the Habs should be far more capable of playing a game based on puck possession. Having all of their players playing in the position that suits their game, will have a general good and natural flow/balance to it, the point specified by Bergevin when he took the reins of GM two yrs. ago.

My point here is imagine yourself in a professional group of peers and having to do a job prolifically that is the opposite of where you are best suited. Now that drawback is lifted off of your shoulders and you can perform at the job you know suits you, that's the spot that both Bourque & Emelin are finding themselves this year. People are expecting a bad year for the Habs defence missing Gorges and adding two veteran RD's alongside two rookie LD's. But when taking into acct. the fact Emelin(KHL-MVP on defence) finally playing his right side, expect good things,IMHO. The same thing goes for Bourque if PAP performs with DD & Pacioretty, then Bourque can be expected to play RW with Plekanec and either of Sekac or JDLR(consummate checker) I think his game would fit the Plekanec lines speed and checking, resulting in scoring from that line, too. Leaving the Eller-Galchenyuk-Gallagher line, as we've seen can score, but coming with another year of experience and a puck possession edict, a great incentive for these three youngsters,IMHO.

I look to huge improvements to the Habs offensive game this year, especially due to the defensive specialties that each pairing brings. No more boring defence oriented game waiting for chances but forcing chances, with hard checking and a fast transition game, the way Championship teams play hockey.

 

[bigtimehockeyfan999*]

I;ve seen posters claiming penner is good in the playoffs. He's never scored more than 3 goals in the playoffs...and that includes the run in 2012..just not seeing it...looks fat and slow to me.

 

[Mr. Hab]

I;ve seen posters claiming penner is good in the playoffs. He's never scored more than 3 goals in the playoffs...and that includes the run in 2012..just not seeing it...looks fat and slow to me.

Has height/size...playoff experience...is on the VERY CHEAP right now...win-win.

Need him to complete our top 9, or else...in playoffs Weise is in my top 9, imo.

Sekac: we won the sweepstakes...that's great, but let's hope Sekac can be good for our top 9 ; and Andrighetto...looking forward to seeing him but maybe he needs one more AHL season?? (not sure).

Penner gives us the size we need.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gallagher
Pacioretty-DD-PA Parenteau
Bourque-Eller-Weise/Penner?/Sekac??
Prust/Bournival-Malhotra-Weise/Penner
Moen

 

[Halifaxhab*]

Has height/size...playoff experience...is on the VERY CHEAP right now...win-win.

Need him to complete our top 9, or else...in playoffs Weise is in my top 9, imo.

Sekac: we won the sweepstakes...that's great, but let's hope Sekac can be good for our top 9 ; and Andrighetto...looking forward to seeing him but maybe he needs one more AHL season?? (not sure).

Penner gives us the size we need.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gallagher
Pacioretty-DD-PA Parenteau
Bourque-Eller-Weise/Penner?/Sekac??
Prust/Bournival-Malhotra-Weise/Penner
Moen

Maybe we can wait for the 15th and win the Kevin Hayes sweepsteaks too instead of signing Penner? I know Penner is a known quatity, but I would like to see if we can get a big young PWF in, and one familiar with Bergevin.

Hey....a boy can dream right?

 

[Dagistitsyn]

Maybe we can wait for the 15th and win the Kevin Hayes sweepsteaks too instead of signing Penner? I know Penner is a known quatity, but I would like to see if we can get a big young PWF in, and one familiar with Bergevin.

Hey....a boy can dream right?

Pretty sure he will sign with a team that will give him a spot in the NHL right away.

 

[Halifaxhab*]

Pretty sure he will sign with a team that will give him a spot in the NHL right away.

Not arguing that. But one look at our RW depth, and we can see he has a good chance. I'd still rather him than some others we have like Bork

 

[Ezpz]

Not arguing that. But one look at our RW depth, and we can see he has a good chance. I'd still rather him than some others we have like Bork

Hayes will never score 20 goals in a season in his career. I doubt he even becomes a full time NHLer. Playing with Gaudreau really inflated his numbers.

 

[Halifaxhab*]

Hayes will never score 20 goals in a season in his career. I doubt he even becomes a full time NHLer. Playing with Gaudreau really inflated his numbers.

that's possible as well. But on an ELC playing a 3rd line role (possibly platooning in and out of that spot). I'd still like him more than Borq, who will not get 20 goals this year either (IMO)

 

[Halifaxhab*]

Hayes will never score 20 goals in a season in his career. I doubt he even becomes a full time NHLer. Playing with Gaudreau really inflated his numbers.

also, playing with Eller could inflate his numbers too.

 

[24Cups]

Penner gives us the size we need.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gallagher
Pacioretty-DD-PA Parenteau
Bourque-Eller-Weise/Penner?/Sekac??
Prust/Bournival-Malhotra-Weise/Penner
Moen

I don't see a problem without the Penner.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gallagher
Pacioretty-DD-PA Parenteau
Bourque-Eller-Sekac
Prust-Malhotra-Weise
Bournival, Moen

 

[Dagistitsyn]

that's possible as well. But on an ELC playing a 3rd line role (possibly platooning in and out of that spot). I'd still like him more than Borq, who will not get 20 goals this year either (IMO)

Bourque has how ever been our best forward in the playoffs for 2 straight years. That's huge.

 

[Dominator13]

Bourque has how ever been our best forward in the playoffs for 2 straight years. That's huge.

Yeah well you need to get there 1st. He can't just ride the train again until april comes.

I would love something like this as our bottom 2 lines.

Prust-Eller-Sekac
Enforcer-Malhotra-Weise
Bournival.

 

[Ezpz]

Bourque naturally played RW his entire career before coming to the Habs. Putting him back there would be just fine, in which case a third line LW would be our need. Sekac likely to get that role.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Don't get the Penner love on this board. He's washed up and never lived up to anywhere near his potential. He's not a Habs guy by a long shot and if not for his size (which he doesn't use) he'd likely never be mentioned. I'd rather have a face puncher than a Penner, at least they'de serve a purpose and I don't think we should have a face puncher.

Given our line up now, who would you sit to play Penner?

Patches DD Gally
Galchenyuk Plex Parenteau
cakeS Eller Bork
Prust Molhotra Weise
Moen/Bournival

Literally not one person I'd take Penner over in the entire lineup. Even Moen serves a purpose of killing penalties and can fight. Bounival has a LOT more speed and heart and backcheck like a demon and can also play PK. Bork, well at best Penner could be just as enigmatic as him but hasn't shown he can come close to Bork during the season and especially in the PO's. So where does Penner even fit?

 

[Halifaxhab*]

Bourque has how ever been our best forward in the playoffs for 2 straight years. That's huge.

He did step up. I'd argue Eller was the best one this year and Borque 2nd (but that's not the point). I see it more in a sense of trade Borque (adding to our pick/prospect pool), make a little space and now you have a 3d line with Sekac-Eller-Hayes. All big, fast, talented, and with Eller and Hayes known for being capable of 2-way play, not really out of place. It also opens up cap space that can be used to bring in a deadline deal, and help with nex season's RFA's.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Penner and setoguchi are really the only two free agent options left that would make sense to add.. Cheap utility options for one year deals instead of hoping for sekac or andrighetto to crack the line up.

 

[Agnostic]

Penner and setoguchi are really the only two free agent options left that would make sense to add.. Cheap utility options for one year deals instead of hoping for sekac or andrighetto to crack the line up.

Penner and Setoguchi might still be free agents come October. Best to see what Sekac, JDLR, and Andrighetto have first not the other way around.

 

[boyinboyin]

I don't see a problem without the Penner.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gallagher
Pacioretty-DD-PA Parenteau
Bourque-Eller-Sekac
Prust-Malhotra-Weise
Bournival, Moen

Lets bring back the EGG line and put Pleky on a two way line with Prust and his Tchek friend !

Pacioretty - DD - Parenteau
Galchy - Eller - Gally
Prust - Pleky - Sekac
Boutnival - Manny - Weise

Extras : Bourque, Moen

 

[le_sean]

Don't get the Penner love on this board. He's washed up and never lived up to anywhere near his potential. He's not a Habs guy by a long shot and if not for his size (which he doesn't use) he'd likely never be mentioned. I'd rather have a face puncher than a Penner, at least they'de serve a purpose and I don't think we should have a face puncher.

Given our line up now, who would you sit to play Penner?

Patches DD Gally
Galchenyuk Plex Parenteau
cakeS Eller Bork
Prust Molhotra Weise
Moen/Bournival

Literally not one person I'd take Penner over in the entire lineup. Even Moen serves a purpose of killing penalties and can fight. Bounival has a LOT more speed and heart and backcheck like a demon and can also play PK. Bork, well at best Penner could be just as enigmatic as him but hasn't shown he can come close to Bork during the season and especially in the PO's. So where does Penner even fit?

Penner doesn't use his size to smash people, but he does use it to cycle the puck down low. He could be a force with Eller.

And yes, while he only had 3 goals in LA's Cup run, he did total 11 points, good for 6th in forwards despite playing a bottom 6 role.

Unfortunately, next to Eller, our best forward at keeping the puck in offensive corners is Desharnais, who is 5'6. It's an area the team is lacking in and a pivotal one in the postseason. Penner isn't perfect, but it's also August and he won't command much money. Worst case scenario, Sekac outplays him. Depth is not a bad thing. I think a Bourque - Eller - Penner line would be pretty effective in the playoffs.

 

[Hope Of Glory]

Penner and Setoguchi might still be free agents come October. Best to see what Sekac, JDLR, and Andrighetto have first not the other way around.

Yeah, we've waited for so long to see a management actually leave a spot open for the rookies, I think it's better we stay put.

If both struggles (which is unlikely) at the training camp, then we could certainly find a cheap third liner out there or on the market. Or worst case scenario you put Prust/Bourni with Eller and Bourque.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Penner doesn't use his size to smash people, but he does use it to cycle the puck down low. He could be a force with Eller.

And yes, while he only had 3 goals in LA's Cup run, he did total 11 points, good for 6th in forwards despite playing a bottom 6 role.

Unfortunately, next to Eller, our best forward at keeping the puck in offensive corners is Desharnais, who is 5'6. It's an area the team is lacking in and a pivotal one in the postseason. Penner isn't perfect, but it's also August and he won't command much money. Worst case scenario, Sekac outplays him. Depth is not a bad thing. I think a Bourque - Eller - Penner line would be pretty effective in the playoffs.

Penner at $1-1.5M isn't a bad deal for a team that needs depth on the 3rd lin and maybe 2nd in a pinch. My point was that we're not that team as we already have good depth as is and haven't even factored in rookies who might crack the line up.

In a cap world, having $2.5M in the litty is a huge advantage to have. You can use it to "help" another team get under the cap in a trade to take on more salary and get a bona fida top line winger we actually need. We can hold on to it in case of injury or to pull another Vanek type deal at the end of the season to help put us over the hump in the PO's.

Signing anyone of the UFA's still available doesn't help us in any meaningful way that the other options of having the cap space can help. In this situation, I think we're better off holding off. I will say that if we didn't get Sekac this off season, I'd agree with signing Penner as well. Until we have a better idea at camp, I think it's best to wait.

 

[Roulin]

Yeah, we've waited for so long to see a management actually leave a spot open for the rookies, I think it's better we stay put.

If both struggles (which is unlikely) at the training camp, then we could certainly find a cheap third liner out there or on the market. Or worst case scenario you put Prust/Bourni with Eller and Bourque.

Rookies in season opening lineups
2011-12: Engqvist, Diaz
2012-13: Galchenyuk
2013-14: Tinordi

It actually has been the trend to leave a spot open for a rookie. IMO the better way of working is to make rookies steal veteran jobs, like with Gallagher and Desharnais.

 

[Roulin]

Penner at $1-1.5M isn't a bad deal for a team that needs depth on the 3rd lin and maybe 2nd in a pinch. My point was that we're not that team as we already have good depth as is and haven't even factored in rookies who might crack the line up.

In a cap world, having $2.5M in the litty is a huge advantage to have. You can use it to "help" another team get under the cap in a trade to take on more salary and get a bona fida top line winger we actually need. We can hold on to it in case of injury or to pull another Vanek type deal at the end of the season to help put us over the hump in the PO's.

Signing anyone of the UFA's still available doesn't help us in any meaningful way that the other options of having the cap space can help. In this situation, I think we're better off holding off. I will say that if we didn't get Sekac this off season, I'd agree with signing Penner as well. Until we have a better idea at camp, I think it's best to wait.

From a cap space POV, Penner at 1-1.5M is only 75-575K more than Sekac. I could see Penner signing for the same amount as Stempniak, 900K, which would actually be 25K savings over Sekac.