Habs Off-season discussion Part 4 (Your ****** proposals still go here)

[c3z4r]

I think Byfugelin would benefit us the most, especially if you factor in the cost/benefit ratio.

He would be absolutely amazing with Patches and DD, or even on the second pairing with Emelin. Imagine the amount of hits and how hesitant teams would be to carry the puck with those two on the backend. Unfortunately his salary is too high for us.

 

[yianik]

Get Dustin Penner before another team takes him...
(he's good in playoffs...it's all about the playoffs and playoff depth...get Penner...cheap win-win situation).

Close the off-season gap by making it...:
Gionta + Vanek (approx.35-40 games) + Briere
VS
PA Parenteau + Penner + Sekac



Playoffs:
Galchenyuk - Pleks - Gallagher
Pacioretty - DD - PA Parenteau
Bourque - Eller - Weise/Penner/Sekac?
Prust/Bournival/Moen - Malhotra - Penner/Weise
Sekac?

Worth trying Penner on the 3rd or at worst...4th line (for PLAYOFFS).

Dustin Penner has 13 career goals in 78 play-off games. Pass.

 

[Brainiac]

He would be absolutely amazing with Patches and DD, or even on the second pairing with Emelin. Imagine the amount of hits and how hesitant teams would be to carry the puck with those two on the backend. Unfortunately his salary is too high for us.

Byfuglien has a 5.2M cap hit and we've got only 2.6M. Whatever piece we'd be sending their way would cover the necessary 2.6M. Easily.

Still a very very bad idea and not the kind of move you'd expect Bergevin to do. But the cap could be easily arranged this year, and then next year with a little bit more work.

 

[Roulin]

With one of Byfuglien's most useful skills being his shot, I don't see the Habs getting the most out of him. Subban, Markov, Beaulieu, Gilbert, Nygren... the marginal benefit to the Habs of adding Byfuglien seems relatively low. I like Byfuglien, I just don't see the Habs being the team to trade for him.

 

[overlords]

Dustin Penner has 13 career goals in 78 play-off games. Pass.

Because you'd expect so much more from a high end 3rd liner?

 

[MaKi]

Our offense is going to be reeling from the net loss of Gionta + Vanek + Briere vs Parenteau.

It's just my opinion, but I hear this often and I think it's being overstated.

We can't just look at it as a simple they're out, and he's in scenario, it's more a matter of who's stepping into their roles and taking their ice time.
There doesn't need to be the same number of players coming in as there is going out, we're going to be filling those roles by promoting younger players internally.

Personally the only major loss I see there is Vanek, and we only had him for a number of weeks in the season. Did he have a big impact during that time? Yes, but I think we'll be alright just the same.

I actually expect our offense will be better this season. I would take Parenteau over Gionta or Briere offensively at this point in their careers.

Sekac is a wild card, and I will temper my expectations of him until the training camp, exhibition games. Our top 4 wingers are already set for the season though I imagine, Pacioretty/Galchenyuk Parenteau/Gallagher.
Whichever players steps up and takes the 3rd line wing spot, whether that be Sekac, Ghetto, or DLR, won't be expected to do the impossible. We're going to have 3 lines that can score, so at least one of them will be getting a favourable matchup.

Not to mention that the addition of Malholtra gives us a solid 4th line that not only doesn't need sheltering, but can also split the defensive load with Plekanec.


I'm looking forward to seeing a younger team, with more emphasis on puck possession this season. Should be exciting.

In the end, assuming none of the off season changes shake things up too much, the East should be wide open again, so just making the playoffs is all that matters.
Just look at Chicago/LA, they both finished 3rd in their respective conference, but are still perennial favorites based on their playoff ability.

I don't know the behind the scenes stuff, but if there was no valid excuse for the lack of effort on Vanek's part last post season, I think we're better off without him.

 

[Sorinth]

It's just my opinion, but I hear this often and I think it's being overstated.

We can't just look at it as a simple they're out, and he's in scenario, it's more a matter of who's stepping into their roles and taking their ice time.
There doesn't need to be the same number of players coming in as there is going out, we're going to be filling those roles by promoting younger players internally.

Personally the only major loss I see there is Vanek, and we only had him for a number of weeks in the season. Did he have a big impact during that time? Yes, but I think we'll be alright just the same.

I actually expect our offense will be better this season. I would take Parenteau over Gionta or Briere offensively at this point in their careers.

Sekac is a wild card, and I will temper my expectations of him until the training camp, exhibition games. Our top 4 wingers are already set for the season though I imagine, Pacioretty/Galchenyuk Parenteau/Gallagher.
Whichever players steps up and takes the 3rd line wing spot, whether that be Sekac, Ghetto, or DLR, won't be expected to do the impossible. We're going to have 3 lines that can score, so at least one of them will be getting a favourable matchup.

Not to mention that the addition of Malholtra gives us a solid 4th line that not only doesn't need sheltering, but can also split the defensive load with Plekanec.


I'm looking forward to seeing a younger team, with more emphasis on puck possession this season. Should be exciting.

In the end, assuming none of the off season changes shake things up too much, the East should be wide open again, so just making the playoffs is all that matters.
Just look at Chicago/LA, they both finished 3rd in their respective conference, but are still perennial favorites based on their playoff ability.

I don't know the behind the scenes stuff, but if there was no valid excuse for the lack of effort on Vanek's part last post season, I think we're better off without him.

That's just it our offence sucked without Vanek, he hasn't been replaced so there's every reason to think it would go back to the pre-Vanek state of affairs.

Even if we compare to the lockout shortened season, when we were a top offence we've downgraded.

So unless Sekac or whoever else takes that open spot is amazing then chances are we will struggle to score. The only hope is that by having a defence that is better with the puck will allow all/most forwards to produce more then expected.

 

[teh doors]

LW Pacioretty - C/LW Eller - RW Gallagher
LW/C Galchenyuk - C Plekanec - LW/RW Bournival..

fastest, talented top six with skills everywhere.. Galchenyuk and Eller could switch, maybe Sekac could work well with Plekanec too

LW/RW Bourque - C Desharnais - RW Parenteau
LW/RW Prust - C Malholtra - LW/RW Weise
LW Moen, LW/RW Sekac..

mix of depth, everyone can play up and down the lineup.. offensive production, size, leadership, toughness, elite faceoffs, character, penalty killing.

14 forwards already... but cap room for a Stempniak/Winnik deal to Setoguchi for a gamble on some cheap RW scoring depth if Sekac needs Hamilton

LD Markov - RD Subban
LD Emelin - RD Gilbert
LD Beaulieu - RD Weaver
LD Tinordi - RD Brookbank

- Sign Brookbank from Chicago. Perfect #6/7/8 big character vet doesn't have to play every night.

Two veteran RD Weaver and Brookbank, huge upgrade over last years two veteran LD Murray and Bouillon.

LD Tinordi, LD Beaulieu, RD Weaver, and RD Brookbank >>>> LD Bouillon, LD Murray, LD Beaulieu, LD Tinordi

 

[Dagistitsyn]

LW Pacioretty - C/LW Eller - RW Gallagher
LW/C Galchenyuk - C Plekanec - LW/RW Bournival..

fastest, talented top six with skills everywhere.. Galchenyuk and Eller could switch, maybe Sekac could work well with Plekanec too

Bournival in the top 6 is a bad move unless he has improved his shot drastically. We all complained about Gio for so long.. Bournival isn't even an upgrade.. If PAP can't put up decent numbers in our top 6 then we need to make another trade to get someone who can.

 

[MaKi]

Bournival in the top 6 is a bad move unless he has improved his shot drastically. We all complained about Gio for so long.. Bournival isn't even an upgrade.. If PAP can't put up decent numbers in our top 6 then we need to make another trade to get someone who can.

Unless you mean strictly in terms of offense, I beg to differ. I think Gionta and Bournival are at least on par offensively, and Bournival brings more speed, and can get in faster on the forecheck and creates more turnovers.

I still wouldn't put him in the top 6, unless it's playoff time and we're splitting up our fire power a bit, and need some sand paper on one of the top two lines.

 

[teh doors]

Bournival in the top 6 is a bad move unless he has improved his shot drastically. We all complained about Gio for so long.. Bournival isn't even an upgrade.. If PAP can't put up decent numbers in our top 6 then we need to make another trade to get someone who can.

The Habs aren't gonna have a traditional top six until/unless Galchenyuk becomes a bonafide #1.

Until then they're going to get by having four good lines with lots of depth.

I think for this team playing in the "top six" is more like playing on one of 3 balanced lines with players that complement each other. Which should work even better now that the team has a solid veteran defensive 4th line centre and so many options for Therrien on the bottom line wings.

Credit to Bournival I think he'd play well with any Habs centre: Plekanec, Eller, LW with Desharnais-PAP, smaller role with Malhotra...

 

[Lshap]

Unless you mean strictly in terms of offense, I beg to differ. I think Gionta and Bournival are at least on par offensively, and Bournival brings more speed, and can get in faster on the forecheck and creates more turnovers.

I still wouldn't put him in the top 6, unless it's playoff time and we're splitting up our fire power a bit, and need some sand paper on one of the top two lines.

The Habs aren't gonna have a traditional top six until/unless Galchenyuk becomes a bonafide #1.

Until then they're going to get by having four good lines with lots of depth.

I think for this team playing in the "top six" is more like playing on one of 3 balanced lines with players that complement each other. Which should work even better now that the team has a solid veteran defensive 4th line centre and so many options for Therrien on the bottom line wings.

Credit to Bournival I think he'd play well with any Habs centre: Plekanec, Eller, LW with Desharnais-PAP, smaller role with Malhotra...

Bournival hasn't shown a shred of sniping ability. He's very fast and plays a solid two-way game, but he is not a goal-scorer. Gionta lost his shot, but he was still miles ahead of Bournival offensively.

 

[teh doors]

Bournival hasn't shown a shred of sniping ability. He's very fast and plays a solid two-way game, but he is not a goal-scorer. Gionta lost his shot, but he was still miles ahead of Bournival offensively.

Well.. he scored 7 as a rookie and I can think of two (great slapshot vs St Louis and perfect one timer from Markov for 1st career goal) that were on really nice shots and at 2 that were flukey or open net.. can't remember the other 3... and has all around good skills, what's "sniping ablity"

Maybe He doesn't have a high ceiling as a goal scorer but he has all of the skills to score 15-20 a year with as many assists while playing really well defensively. I think it's a great idea that a young player like that to play a great veteran C like Plekanec who plays a similar game.

Bournival-Gallagher could also be a great winger duo

 

[habamillions]

With one of Byfuglien's most useful skills being his shot, I don't see the Habs getting the most out of him. Subban, Markov, Beaulieu, Gilbert, Nygren... the marginal benefit to the Habs of adding Byfuglien seems relatively low. I like Byfuglien, I just don't see the Habs being the team to trade for him.

the only way im interested in big buff is as a forward

 

[Frank JT]

Bournival = good bottom 6 player

 

[sampollock]

time to get Kane,

that will round out the youth, and bring more beef.

 

[Lshap]

Well.. he scored 7 as a rookie and I can think of two (great slapshot vs St Louis and perfect one timer from Markov for 1st career goal) that were on really nice shots and at 2 that were flukey or open net.. can't remember the other 3... and has all around good skills, what's "sniping ablity"

Maybe He doesn't have a high ceiling as a goal scorer but he has all of the skills to score 15-20 a year with as many assists while playing really well defensively. I think it's a great idea that a young player like that to play a great veteran C like Plekanec who plays a similar game.

Bournival-Gallagher could also be a great winger duo

I would love for him to develop into a 15-20 goal player, but he'd have to gain a lot of poise and puck-patience for that to happen. Right now, Bournival looks like (forgive me) Scott Gomez, who was great at getting the puck into the o-zone, but had no idea what to do next. The difference, obviously, is that Bournival is still learning the game while Gomez was losing his game.

 

[Dagistitsyn]

time to get Kane,

that will round out the youth, and bring more beef.

We can't even take on that contract now. Especially with barely anyone leaving next year to free up more space and we have to resign Gally,Galchenyuk,Tinordi,Brolieu..

Pleks would free up the space to take on Kane, but it'd create a bigger hole.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

time to get Kane,

that will round out the youth, and bring more beef.

Trade Budaj first, and possibly Moen. Try to stay below the cap at all times, so that trading counterparts are not in a position to exploit the Habs cap situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlE9gqe0IHw

 

[MaKi]

That's just it our offence sucked without Vanek, he hasn't been replaced so there's every reason to think it would go back to the pre-Vanek state of affairs.

Even if we compare to the lockout shortened season, when we were a top offence we've downgraded.

So unless Sekac or whoever else takes that open spot is amazing then chances are we will struggle to score. The only hope is that by having a defence that is better with the puck will allow all/most forwards to produce more then expected.

Habs Line Up
Jan 19th 2013
1st game vs Toronto

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole
Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gionta
Moen-Eller-Bourque
Prust-White-Armstrong

Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Gorges
Bouillon-Diaz

Price

Habs Line Up
April 27th 2013
final regular season game vs Toronto

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Ryder-Plekanec-Gionta
Galchenyuk-Eller-Bourque
Prust-Halpern-Armstrong

Gorges-Subban
Markov-Diaz
Tinordi-Bouillon

Price


I don't think that lineup was better offensively than the one we have now.

1. I firmly believe Gionta is addition by subtraction offensively.

2. The only other change in the top 9 is Cole/Ryder. Cole was pretty useless that season when with us, Bournival could have produced the same results if not better. Cole was basically just a big body that season, and his effort level was up and down.
Anyway, that obviously won't be the replacement for Ryder/Cole, I was just pointing out how someone slotted in as a 4th liner could have replaced a player who was on our top line for a good part of the season.
As for Ryder, I think Parenteau is just fine as a replacement for him. All Ryder really provided was a shot, and while Parenteau's shot isn't on Ryder's level, I think he brings more in other areas, passing game for example, and it will be a wash.

3. The addition of Malholtra will allow us to use the 4th line for the majority of our defensive zone draws and in PK situations. This will allow us to use our top 3 lines more freely in offensive situations, and will hopefully lead to an increase in production from Plek.
Not being saddled with Gionta, and not having to start the majority of his shifts from the defensive zone should help Plek a lot.

4. The young guys are moving up the ranks, and should continue to develop. Aside from Plekanec, Malholtra, Bourque, Moen, and Prust none of our forwards are over 30 years old. Now it's safe to say that some guys at their age won't continue to improve, at least no in a drastic way (Pac, DD, etc...), but they definitely shouldn't be declining for a while still.

5. As stated already, our puck moving ability from D is improved, and should help the offense.

 

[MaKi]

Bournival hasn't shown a shred of sniping ability. He's very fast and plays a solid two-way game, but he is not a goal-scorer. Gionta lost his shot, but he was still miles ahead of Bournival offensively.

I will admit I could be way off on this, as I didn't get to watch as many regular season games as I would have liked to due to my work schedule, but I disagree with that statement.

What I noticed in the games I watched was Gionta getting rid of the puck as soon as he would get it by just blindly firing it towards the goal. Didn't matter if there was no traffic in front, if someone was wide open or ready for him to cycle it down low into the corner, he would just turn and fire.

Now it may have been the best play a lot of the time for him specifically. As a small forward who doesn't have young legs to evade defenders that may be what he has to do to avoid turning over the puck, but you need more than that from a top 6 forward.

My point is, neither are a great option as top 6 forward. Gionta may have more experience, but Bournival can at least take a hit, protect the puck, and keep the cycle going. Not to mention he's a lot more tenacious on the forecheck, and allows us to retrieve the puck when we dump it in.

 

[Sorinth]

Habs Line Up
Jan 19th 2013
1st game vs Toronto

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole
Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gionta
Moen-Eller-Bourque
Prust-White-Armstrong

Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Gorges
Bouillon-Diaz

Price

Habs Line Up
April 27th 2013
final regular season game vs Toronto

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Ryder-Plekanec-Gionta
Galchenyuk-Eller-Bourque
Prust-Halpern-Armstrong

Gorges-Subban
Markov-Diaz
Tinordi-Bouillon

Price


I don't think that lineup was better offensively than the one we have now.

1. I firmly believe Gionta is addition by subtraction offensively.

2. The only other change in the top 9 is Cole/Ryder. Cole was pretty useless that season when with us, Bournival could have produced the same results if not better. Cole was basically just a big body that season, and his effort level was up and down.
Anyway, that obviously won't be the replacement for Ryder/Cole, I was just pointing out how someone slotted in as a 4th liner could have replaced a player who was on our top line for a good part of the season.
As for Ryder, I think Parenteau is just fine as a replacement for him. All Ryder really provided was a shot, and while Parenteau's shot isn't on Ryder's level, I think he brings more in other areas, passing game for example, and it will be a wash.

3. The addition of Malholtra will allow us to use the 4th line for the majority of our defensive zone draws and in PK situations. This will allow us to use our top 3 lines more freely in offensive situations, and will hopefully lead to an increase in production from Plek.
Not being saddled with Gionta, and not having to start the majority of his shifts from the defensive zone should help Plek a lot.

4. The young guys are moving up the ranks, and should continue to develop. Aside from Plekanec, Malholtra, Bourque, Moen, and Prust none of our forwards are over 30 years old. Now it's safe to say that some guys at their age won't continue to improve, at least no in a drastic way (Pac, DD, etc...), but they definitely shouldn't be declining for a while still.

5. As stated already, our puck moving ability from D is improved, and should help the offense.

I agree that Parenteau/Ryder is more or less a wash. It really comes down to chemistry in that case. Ryder was a 60pt player for us, Parenteau can do that as well.

But how is Gionta addition by subtraction, he's good for 40-45pts in some of the toughest minutes on the team. That's going to be a big loss. Hell he had 3 less points than Plekanec last season, so he's far from finished offensively.

Also keep in mind that season Eller put up a 53pt pace from the third line with no PP time. That's not something that is sustainable over a full season, if we want our young guys like Eller, Galchenyuk to take a bigger offensive role then it will come partly at the expense of the guys currently in those roles.

Malhotra is a wash because that season we had a good defensive 4th line anyways. It was pretty much Plekanec and the 4th line taking all the defensive duties. I pretty much expect the same again this year.

 

[MaKi]

I agree that Parenteau/Ryder is more or less a wash. It really comes down to chemistry in that case. Ryder was a 60pt player for us, Parenteau can do that as well.

But how is Gionta addition by subtraction, he's good for 40-45pts in some of the toughest minutes on the team. That's going to be a big loss. Hell he had 3 less points than Plekanec last season, so he's far from finished offensively.

Also keep in mind that season Eller put up a 53pt pace from the third line with no PP time. That's not something that is sustainable over a full season, if we want our young guys like Eller, Galchenyuk to take a bigger offensive role then it will come partly at the expense of the guys currently in those roles.

Malhotra is a wash because that season we had a good defensive 4th line anyways. It was pretty much Plekanec and the 4th line taking all the defensive duties. I pretty much expect the same again this year.

Addition by subtraction in the sense that giving more time to Parenteau/Gallagher instead of Gionta will yield better results. I don't remember too many of Gionta's goals, or assists requiring an amazing skill set. Most of the time it was going to the net, and banging them home. My point is just that I think both Parenteau/Gallagher can do that, while being better in other areas.

I see your point about the chemistry, and players performing over their heads to some degree, but there's no way to foresee how that will play out this season.
I think we have better offensive depth now, which should help us keep our scoring by committee type of attack rolling. What I mean by that is, with 3 lines that can score, if one of those lines is slumping, you can roll out one of the other two in those prime offensive situations (after the opponent ices the puck, offensive zone starts against weaker lines, PP's).

Also I think our PP should improve based solely on the fact that we have a more capable second unit on the point. I can't say one way or the other if we'll have a better organized PP, it depends who's coaching it, but having a legit second wave PP D pairing should help a lot.

Lastly I personally think this 4th line is the best we've had in a long time, but I'm a sucker for a C who's strong on the draw. In fact I'd go as far as to say I think it's a top 4th line in the league.

Prust - Malholtra - Weise
Depends how Prust's health is coming into the season, but against tougher matchups where we may need him to fight I'd put him in over Bournival

Bournival - Malholtra - Weise
Two fast wingers, who are strong on their skates and battle hard.
A veteran center, who finished 2nd overall in FO% in the league last year.
Think about the amount of breakaways these two guys could get just through blocking shots, or catching the opposing defensemen flat footed. Not to mention they both battle hard, so sending them the puck on the hash marks in our zone, with the opposing dman pinching in shouldn't be a problem either.
These guys will do the dirty work to get the puck out and over the blue line when it's necessary.
Then there's the added bonus of them potentially being able to hem the opposition in their defensive zone by getting in quickly on the forecheck after a dump in.

 

[Talks to Goalposts]

The problem isn't Gallagher replacing Gionta. That is a sensible progression of the teams talent and Gallagher is becoming a pretty solid driver of play much like Gionta was.

The problem is that after Gallagher replaces Gionta, who replaces Gallagher? The veteran option is to use Bourque with Bournival, but we've seen 3 seasons of Bourque, and thinking him as good bet to be an asset as a top nine forward is a triumph of hope over experience.

If Montreal wants to have good offensive lines, they really need so kid to earn a spot like Gallagher did. Otherwise we are looking at a 2 line scoring team, neither of the lines being powerful enough to carry the team offensively.

 

[MaKi]

The problem isn't Gallagher replacing Gionta. That is a sensible progression of the teams talent and Gallagher is becoming a pretty solid driver of play much like Gionta was.

The problem is that after Gallagher replaces Gionta, who replaces Gallagher? The veteran option is to use Bourque with Bournival, but we've seen 3 seasons of Bourque, and thinking him as good bet to be an asset as a top nine forward is a triumph of hope over experience.

If Montreal wants to have good offensive lines, they really need so kid to earn a spot like Gallagher did. Otherwise we are looking at a 2 line scoring team, neither of the lines being powerful enough to carry the team offensively.

I think our offensive depth is just fine. Bourque as a 3rd line winger is nothing to scoff at, especially given the fact that our offense isn't the driving force of this team.
We have one of the top goalies in the league, and a solid up and coming D core anchored by some experienced vets.

Hopefully Bourque finally puts a full season together, but even if he doesn't we have some young guys ready to fill that spot.
Andrighetto could be an option, but I really feel DLR is going to have a strong camp, and put himself near the top of the call up list.