Post-Game Talk: Habs lose to LA

[schwang26]

Why? Because both he and Suzuki are the new Plekanec and Pacioretty, good players but not good enough to lead the charge on a team starved for offense. We have been this way for the last 30 years. The guys on our top lines are typically not as good as what we see around the league from the best teams. The issue is that we are giving both of them just under 8 million a year so they are expected to lead.

Those are bad comparisons. I hate Pacioretty but he was a consistent 30 plus goal guy. Plans even hit 70 points I believe and was incredibly good defensively

He's still getting and creating a lot of chances. He's buzzing. Though not every shift. He just isn't finishing.

Is he though? He’s missing way more than he used to or firing it right into the goalie. His threat level has dropped imo.

 

[OldCraig71]

Those are bad comparisons. I hate Pacioretty but he was a consistent 30 plus goal guy. Plans even hit 70 points I believe and was incredibly good defensively

Is he though? He’s missing way more than he used to or firing it right into the goalie. His threat level has dropped imo.

I am talking about the level of players here, Pacioretty and Plekanec were good second-line players elevated to the first-line in Montreal because they were the best we had. The same can be said for Suzuki and Caufield and we will need better than both of them if we hope to build a cup contender.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I am talking about the level of players here, Pacioretty and Plekanec were good second-line players elevated to the first-line in Montreal because they were the best we had. The same can be said for Suzuki and Caufield and we will need better than both of them if we hope to build a cup contender.

Pacioretty was a first line forward.. Plekanec was a first line center for a short while but was more suited to a 2.

 

[CHwest]

View attachment 779848

beautiful little Spaniel.

 

[hvac412]

The guy is playing so much better, but everyone around him seems to drop a few levels. Even Anderson scored when he was away from Slaf.

Definitely one of the positives last night ,was a beast on the boards and fed CC and Suzuki some beauties,I thought he was the perfect compliment to those two last night.

 

[OldCraig71]

Pacioretty was a first line forward.. Plekanec was a first line center for a short while but was more suited to a 2.

Maybe Pacioretty would have been more if he had a good center feeding him passes instead of Desharnais or Danault but I saw him as more of a complimentary player, same as Plekanec and I see the same with Cole and Nick.

 

[waitin425]

I am talking about the level of players here, Pacioretty and Plekanec were good second-line players elevated to the first-line in Montreal because they were the best we had. The same can be said for Suzuki and Caufield and we will need better than both of them if we hope to build a cup contender.

I am beginning to feel the same way my sleepy friend. I still want to see what we have with Dach back in the lineup though. I think, once the pressure is removed from Suzuki and Caufield to be the only scoring line, it may help.

The way I see it today....we have 4 x top 6 players in Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf and Dach. All four are basically second liners at this point though. We need another 2, and preferably two that are PPG+ players.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Maybe Pacioretty would have been more if he had a good center feeding him passes instead of Desharnais or Danault but I saw him as more of a complimentary player, same as Plekanec and I see the same with Cole and Nick.

A guy who averages 30 goals and 60 pts in a season is generally a first line forward.

 

[Redux91]

Do last night's Los Angeles goals reduce your long-term enthusiasm for Kaiden Guhle?

You mean the 21 yr old kid defenseman we have been asking entirely too much from and entirely too soon and he's still been our best D this year among 8-9 guys all older than him?

Nah, he'll / we'll be fine.

 

[Nicko999]

I am beginning to feel the same way my sleepy friend. I still want to see what we have with Dach back in the lineup though. I think, once the pressure is removed from Suzuki and Caufield to be the only scoring line, it may help.

The way I see it today....we have 4 x top 6 players in Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf and Dach. All four are basically second liners at this point though. We need another 2, and preferably two that are PPG+ players.

Let's wait a bit before claiming Slaf is a top 6 player. Kid is not even pacing for 25 pts this year. Even Jake Evans has more pts with less ice time.

I need to see more from Dach as well. Guy never produced 40 pts in a single season. That's mainly because of his health but still. When he is injured (which is every year), he is not helping the team.

 

[OldCraig71]

A guy who averages 30 goals and 60 pts in a season is generally a first line forward.

Okay but what about the other two guys on the line? If all three are 60-70 point players we stay where we have been for the last 30 years which was my original point. We need top-end talent, we need at least one player in the 85-100 point range, or we stay where we have been with some middle-of-the-road teams and we need more.

 

[Hope Of Glory]

A guy who averages 30 goals and 60 pts in a season is generally a first line forward.

Especially 10 years ago when scoring was much lower than it is now. Pacioretty was definitely a 1st liner.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Okay but what about the other two guys on the line? If all three are 60-70 point players we stay where we have been for the last 30 years which was my original point. We need top-end talent, we need at least one player in the 85-100 point range, or we stay where we have been with some middle-of-the-road teams and we need more.

Yes we need top end talent but we also need to be realistic about what people are. Pacioretty was a legitimate first liner.

He was not surrounded appropriately but that doesn't make him less than he was.

All I'm saying.

 

[LaP]

Let's wait a bit before claiming Slaf is a top 6 player. Kid is not even pacing for 25 pts this year. Even Jake Evans has more pts with less ice time.

I need to see more from Dach as well. Guy never produced 40 pts in a single season. That's mainly because of his health but still. When he is injured (which is every year), he is not helping the team.

It's true that we should wait and see. Jake Evans having more points than Slaf is irrelevant to the discussion though. Rhem Pitlick, Chris Wideman, Drouin, Ben Chiarot, Poehling, ... in fact pretty much our entire team including Laurent Dauphin (yes it's not a joke) actually all had a better ppg than Byfield in 2021-2022 when Byfield was 19.

 

[Runner77]

We need top-end talent, we need at least one player in the 85-100 point range, or we stay where we have been with some middle-of-the-road teams and we need more.

Not if we can select a RHD with limited offensive potential, instead.

 

[GHJimmy]

It's starting to make sense why Slaf is getting better at being 1st overall, he listens more than the rest of these clowns dressed in habs uniform. but we have our taste too.

 

[schwang26]

I am talking about the level of players here, Pacioretty and Plekanec were good second-line players elevated to the first-line in Montreal because they were the best we had. The same can be said for Suzuki and Caufield and we will need better than both of them if we hope to build a cup contender.

Pacioretty was a top line guy. Pleks I agree on.

 

[bsl]

That third goal took the wind out of the sails of the team. Until then, despite the score, I thought the Canadiens were matching up well against the Kings. That third goal changed everything.

That’s what losing teams do. They give up that third goal

 

[bsl]

MSL coaches like he would have wanted to be coached. A good way for fast, skilled, smart players.

Our players are not that.

I still think he should coach like that. Hockey is about scoring goals. I noticed he had all d men pinching the second half. No use protecting a 2 0 loss. I like that. I don’t think msl is the problem at all. It is lack of talent and finishing.

 

[Naslundforever]

Simply not true. None of it. It was an even fight against a bigger guy that has a bunch of fights. You can see them here:

Andreas Englund vs. Michael Pezzetta, December 7, 2023 - Los Angeles Kings vs. Montreal Canadiens | HockeyFights

HockeyFights - Andreas Englund vs. Michael Pezzetta, December 7, 2023 - Los Angeles Kings vs. Montreal Canadiens

www.hockeyfights.com

You’re right that guy does have some fights! Thought for sure I heard Marc Denis say something like that on air. Guy had the reach on him for sure.

Suzuki hit two post today and Caufield was really close to a goal. Slafkovsky also almost scored off a Suzuki pass, I think.

I think habs need to find players who can play at Slafkovsky’s level to not waste his Slavic god-given awesomness.

 

[OldCraig71]

Yes we need top end talent but we also need to be realistic about what people are. Pacioretty was a legitimate first liner.

He was not surrounded appropriately but that doesn't make him less than he was.

All I'm saying.

Okay but if Pacioretty and Plekanec are the best you have then can you win anything or seriously contend? This was my original point, there are 32 teams in the league and there are different levels of first-line players and Pacioretty is not a top-level first-line player and Plekanec certainly wasn't. If we want to have a contending team post rebuild I think that we will need at least one big producer on the roster and I don't see Suzuki or Caufield being that.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I found that gif on Kings forum, lol

Philippe is doing great !

Habs can't celebrate like this because we don't have the vets leading our team and we don't like Selke players. But we have Mr Smile (Dvo) and that's perfect like this.

 

[abo9]

Why? Because both he and Suzuki are the new Plekanec and Pacioretty, good players but not good enough to lead the charge on a team starved for offense. We have been this way for the last 30 years. The guys on our top lines are typically not as good as what we see around the league from the best teams. The issue is that we are giving both of them just under 8 million a year so they are expected to lead.

So true. I'll go as far as to say that Plekanec > Suzuki and Patch > Caufield, but theyre still young.

Habs dont need more NHL players, we have plenty of them. Since 2005 we've iced some solid 3rd and 4th lines... but those arent the difference makers.

And I have the feeling that we're getting stuck in a Sabres type of perpetual rebuild - I dont see the light at the end end of the tunnel.

Draft steals? We got none of those. Top pick who pan out? Cant wait to see one. A reclamation project that works? Dach looked like it and is plagued by inuries.

Ive been watching from the sidelines for a while since its so brutal year after year after year and its been gettingbworst every year for the past 10 years at least

 

[Habs]

imagine if we have another GM that burns out franchise players again? Another 5 years of burning up prospects, poor development ...drafting... whoa

So true. I'll go as far as to say that Plekanec > Suzuki and Patch > Caufield, but theyre still young.

Habs dont need more NHL players, we have plenty of them. Since 2005 we've iced some solid 3rd and 4th lines... but those arent the difference makers.

And I have the feeling that we're getting stuck in a Sabres type of perpetual rebuild - I dont see the light at the end end of the tunnel.

Draft steals? We got none of those. Top pick who pan out? Cant wait to see one. A reclamation project that works? Dach looked like it and is plagued by inuries.

Ive been watching from the sidelines for a while since its so brutal year after year after year and its been gettingbworst every year for the past 10 years at least

Pleks was never better than Suzuki, not ever.

 

[abo9]

Pleks was never better than Suzuki, not ever.

Plek was underrated and Suzuki is overrated.

Plekanec's best years offensively are better than Suzuki currently, in a lower scoring era.

Edit: just to illustrate the difference. Pleky finished the 2009 2010 season as the 28th best scorer in the league (70 pts). Suzuki with 66 pts last year finished... 74th. 1 whole point above Brayden Schenn. 70 pts would have placed 59th - quite a realm of difference with 2009 2010.



Defensively he was very good too, and it checks out with his Selke placements over the years (according to hockey reference, he had placements like 7th, 13th, 15th and 15)

Suzuki could still end up better, bur I dont buy the Plekanec was NEVER better than Suzuki as shown. Suzuki has a higher draft pedigree and more hype coming in from rhe Pacioretty trade and being the only viable center option.

Its not that hes a bad player. I would love to keep him around. But hes ideally a 2C. Not unlike Plekanec's situation.