ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
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Seems like Holl is getting lapped by all these up and comers. Time to start shopping.
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ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
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Could be Dubas setting the fan’s expectations through TSN. Too many bodies, guys who don’t need to clear will probably get waived even if they don’t deserve it. Such is life when you max out the cap.
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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Welsh Maple Leaf
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He's a right shot, playing the left side, and aside from Dahlstrom has been the worst defender every game.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Mugzy97
#StandWitness
He's a guy with a roster spot who is proven top 4 over the last 2 seasons and an important PKer. His role in camp is a bit more lax than guys fighting for a spot on the last couple lines.
We have 7 nhl d men and the rest are not proven. Why would we want to lose a cheap RHD who is dependable?
Crosscrease14
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- Dec 16, 2014
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Holl has a spot on the team.. it's a warm-up for him not a tryout. The guys fighting for an NHL job should look more engaged at this point.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
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Holl didn't look any different than he has during the season.
What other regulars did you find didn't look engaged? Seemed to me everyone was going full tilt this camp as they should after the way last season ended.
What’s with all the Holl hate?
At absolute worst he’s an awesome #6 to have. Can slot anywhere in the D lineup. “He’s only good with Muzzin” ok. Guess who he’s probably going to be glued beside all season - Muzzin. So what’s the issue? They were one of the top shutdown pairings in the league last year. And for $7-8 mil you can’t complain about that.
At absolute worst he’s an awesome #6 to have. Can slot anywhere in the D lineup. “He’s only good with Muzzin” ok. Guess who he’s probably going to be glued beside all season - Muzzin. So what’s the issue? They were one of the top shutdown pairings in the league last year. And for $7-8 mil you can’t complain about that.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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I would sure hope that Sandin and Lilly turn into more than just good #4 dmen like Holl is.
The issue is if Muzzin gets hurt, and he's got a tendency to get hurt then Holl sucks.
If your partner has to carry you, You're not good.
It's been proven Muzzin carries Holl
In any match up pair consisting of a 2-3 and a 4-5 the 2-3 is carrying the 4-5. That the 4-5 can't handle the same matchup duties with another 4-5 or even a 6-7 doesn't mean they "suck" or are "not good", it confirms that they're a 4-5 at best.
Gary Nylund
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zeke
The Dube Abides
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A 2-3 + 4-5 combo is usually not good enough to be one of the better tough usage matchup pairs in hockey, like muzz-holl are.
Usually not, but sometimes chemistry matters, getting more out of a group than the sum of their parts- and Muzz and Holl
zeke
The Dube Abides
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Usually not, but sometimes chemistry matters, getting more out of a group than the sum of their parts- and Muzz and Holl
Dont need chemistry to explain why a combo of a #1 and #4 is a very good pairing.
Fogelhund
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- Sep 15, 2007
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All this BS over whether Holl is a 4, 5 or 6... who cares, the Muzzin/Holl pairing works, and for now Holl's spot on the roster is safe. Muzzin is a great D, and certainly carries the weight on that pairing, and it wouldnt' be any different if you stuck Dermott/Liljegren/Sandin with him.
More than anything, I think some people are just desperate for a trade, any trade.
More than anything, I think some people are just desperate for a trade, any trade.
kb
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- Aug 28, 2009
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Ding ding ding!
Or to attempt to prove to themselves that they are smarter than the GM.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
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You don't think any of those 3 can become(if they aren't already) better players than Holl?
I don't think people are desperate for a trade they just want the team to be better.
I'd consider this a good thing TBH. Holl was largely fantastic for us last year.
I love Lilly and Sandin as much as the next person, but until Holl loses his gig, I see no reason to play either one of them in place off him. I'd much rather play those 2 in place of Dermott, who has never shown a propensity to make good of an increased opportunity.
Its tough, I like a lot of our players, Dermott included. We just don't have the roster spot/cap space to make it all work unfortunately. IMO Derms has been given this carte blanche like approach to his development, and has developed ok but not great, whereas Timmy has been shackled in chains. I think it's time we see what we have with Timmy. If you combine that with the fact that he is a natural RD, whereas Derms is not, it just makes more sense to me.
IMO this is a better defensive group:
Rielly - Brodie
Muzz - Liljegren
Sandin - Holl
Vs. the one sans Holl
Rielly Brodie
Muzz Liljegren
Sandin Dermott
Losing Bogo is more of a shock to our D-corps than I think people are giving credit for. He legit carried Derms most of the year IMO. He was absolutely outstanding, and a huge reason why we were a top 10 D last year. Losing Him, and Holl in the same year and expecting the same/better results is very unlikely IMO.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
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Thats how they may end the season but I really dont think they will split Muzzin and Holl to start the year. Why fix something that isn't broken so the saying goes
