Post-Game Talk: Habs defeat the Utah Hockey Club™ 5-3

[JustAHabFan]

Cooley was much, much better than both. In a re-draft, Cooley is easily going first overall.

You take Cooley over Hutson. I won't.

 

[Rapala]

Yeah because he had a major injury. Its shameful how quickly people turn on good kids. And for people who turned on him and threw dirt on his career to still not want to acknowledge his steady improvement is even more silly.

I'm talking about your insistence that +/- is not a worthwhile stat. You've used that argument more than once while defending Dach and I simply called you out on it. If I believed that I'd also have to believe GA are not a worthwhile stat. That it reflected his poor play at the time and probably cost us some points is not even up for debate. I don't care what the reasons were they are irrelevant to what I was arguing.

 

[Ozmodiar]

This team has the ability to self-correct.

They play well when trailing. They don’t fold.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Hahah... to rub it in?! Like Hey dude, see how you f***ed up there?! Even Gally would have scored


What if Slaf had Newhook's skating... that would be nice, eh?

One thing I noticed with Slaf is he tends to have puck control issues in traffic. Probably due to his development/youth and long stick. When it gets closer to your skates, the guys with long reaches do have a harder time than guys like Caufield or Hutson for example. Opposite ends of the spectrum. I find Anderson has the same issue. What happens is they need to look down and then get all worried they don't have their blind spot checked in terms of a big hit coming. The mental part of that area can change a players game.

Slaf needs to learn how to keep his feet moving while he is trying to stick handle around guys. Good things happen when you don't stop moving.

This team has the ability to self-correct.

They play well when trailing. They don’t fold.

Yup. They are very resilient as a group. This is something players from other teams are noticing and I have no doubt about it. This is a great group of guys and the Habs are clearly focused on the culture (passing on Michkov is an example of that). They want a team of players that work for each other, not individual goals.

 

[schwang26]

I can’t believe this team won’t make an AHL call up.

They’re on the road. It’s not an emergency.

 

[The Real Timo]

They’re on the road. It’s not an emergency.

Habs are undefeated in Pezz's return. Don't f*** with the winning lineup. They did against Stars and they lost. Pezz back in vs Utah and they win. Get a clue, Marty

 

[WeThreeKings]

I don’t see how that makes anyone hate him, he looked done and the assessment did not come from a place of love or hate, and was not a marginal assessment. He also symbolized « we don’t care about winning this year » which was a big turnoff for a lot of people as he was still getting 2nd line duty while rehabbing. He is finally doing well, how the habs are in a playoff push despite seems improbable, but I for one will enjoy the show.

If we’re afraid to comment on anything bad because we get labelled as one of two binary things it takes the fun and purpose away from the site…

I hate (lol) these fake dichotomies, it’s unrelated to hockey. It just kills conversation and steers to « so do you hate or love? », closed questions (which are usually in fact rhetorical).

Haters/Lovers is just a joke; I don't actually look at it that way. More of a meme thing.

But there are plenty of people who threw dirt on his career, called him done and needing to move on from him ASAP. Those same people will still argue he's playing poorly now and nothing has changed. That's not good analysis.

He was coming off a massive injury, a lot of missed time, for a guy who has not fully established his game in the NHL. Look at Laine, he's productive because he established his elite tool in the league and can fall back on his high-end shot while the rest of his game has been just as bad as Dach's was at his worst. Severe injuries and time off is a valid excuse.

Even when he was not producing but bringing elements back into his game as his conditioning and confidence slowly came back, those same people refused to give him any flowers. Now he's scoring goals and there's not any flowers. I don't care if people still want to upgrade on him (I would upgrade on anyone on the team if there was one) but to blatantly ignore the steady improvement in his game and try to invalidate the fact his injury and time off had nothing to do with his poor play, is just horrible analysis and people should just own it. It's not hard to own bad analysis. I do it all the time.

I'm talking about your insistence that +/- is not a worthwhile stat. You've used that argument more than once while defending Dach and I simply called you out on it. If I believed that I'd also have to believe GA are not a worthwhile stat. That it reflected his poor play at the time and probably cost us some points is not even up for debate. I don't care what the reasons were they are irrelevant to what I was arguing.

It's not a worthwhile stat. It is basically a correlation and not causation. There's plenty of times he got a minus when he played his spot perfectly. Not all minuses are the same. But sure, let's say plus/minus is a good stat that we should cite.

Wow Crosby is a terrible defensive player!!!

It's a lazy stat that people point to when they want to ridicule a player. There's plenty of other things that could have been pointed to that he wasn't doing well defensively that has far more value. But it was just being used to weaponize an agenda against him.

 

[Rapala]

Haters/Lovers is just a joke; I don't actually look at it that way. More of a meme thing.

But there are plenty of people who threw dirt on his career, called him done and needing to move on from him ASAP. Those same people will still argue he's playing poorly now and nothing has changed. That's not good analysis.

He was coming off a massive injury, a lot of missed time, for a guy who has not fully established his game in the NHL. Look at Laine, he's productive because he established his elite tool in the league and can fall back on his high-end shot while the rest of his game has been just as bad as Dach's was at his worst. Severe injuries and time off is a valid excuse.

Even when he was not producing but bringing elements back into his game as his conditioning and confidence slowly came back, those same people refused to give him any flowers. Now he's scoring goals and there's not any flowers. I don't care if people still want to upgrade on him (I would upgrade on anyone on the team if there was one) but to blatantly ignore the steady improvement in his game and try to invalidate the fact his injury and time off had nothing to do with his poor play, is just horrible analysis and people should just own it. It's not hard to own bad analysis. I do it all the time.



It's not a worthwhile stat. It is basically a correlation and not causation. There's plenty of times he got a minus when he played his spot perfectly. Not all minuses are the same. But sure, let's say plus/minus is a good stat that we should cite.

View attachment 961431

Wow Crosby is a terrible defensive player!!!

It's a lazy stat that people point to when they want to ridicule a player. There's plenty of other things that could have been pointed to that he wasn't doing well defensively that has far more value. But it was just being used to weaponize an agenda against him.

LMFAO Crosby would be the first one to tell you he isn't happy with that stat.
He's been a -player exactly ONCE in his entire career until now..

Our first line is finally starting to win the goal diff battle and the team is moving the right way.
Coincidence NO.

Agree to disagree a lot of wasted verbage there.
You are basically trying to tell me being on the ice for more goals against is meaningless.
And I'm telling you if you can't win that battle you aren't going to win anything.
It's even more important in a seven game series where line match ups become key.

 

[ahmedou]

January 14th is the tunisian revolution date.

So in January 14th I celebrated this historical day of Tunisia. And in January 14th I celebrated Habs win!

Great day of celebration for me!

 

[salbutera]

 

[WeThreeKings]

LMFAO Crosby would be the first one to tell you he isn't happy with that stat.
He's been a -player exactly ONCE in his entire career until now..

Our first line is finally starting to win the goal diff battle and the team is moving the right way.
Coincidence NO.

Agree to disagree a lot of wasted verbage there.
You are basically trying to tell me being on the ice for more goals against is meaningless.
And I'm telling you if you can't win that battle you aren't going to win anything.
It's even more important in a seven game series where line match ups become key.

OK but he's -17; so that means he's bad defensively.

Plus/minus is a terrible stat and using it to prove a point about a player is as weak as it gets.

When you are out to try and tie the game and the other team scores an ENG? Minus.
When you are on the PP and a short-handed goal is conceded? Minus.
When you do everything right but somebody else blows coverage? Minus.
When the goalie gives up an absolute frisbee? Minus.

I'm not gonna sit here and tell anyone Dach has been good defensively, especially to start the year. But to still bring it up, when he hasn't been exposed defensively since the Christmas break and his game has trended upward - is the same reason other fans bring up Hutson's plus/minus. Because they want to find something to say he's bad. It's a weaponized stat that isn't worth shit because it has 0 context.

 

[Andrei79]

This game is just another example of something that was so obvious, the Roger Grillo effect. Dach improving is the Roger Grillo effect.

It's all these small area plays and repetitions he's doing, with his megaphone at the top of the stands in Brossard. All alone on his throne they set up.

Before, all MSL used to do was skate aimlessly twirling his arms around while making helicopter sounds. It was his way of coping with his incompetence.

But now, he can do what he's always dreamed of, pretend to be an NHL coach while taking all the credit.

Grillo is to hockey what the Christmas camel is to the holidays, a primordial being - the premival Grillo.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Didn’t Newhook get a really nice assist on Laine’s goal, hit the post on the PP, and just missed a couple of other chances?

This board is so weird once it designates a whipping boy. Like folks simply become unable to see any nuance in a game

I've been following this team for almost 70 years and the whipping boy syndrome is nothing new. And the ridiculous takes that support these views are laughable. Hey, there's a 'healthy' segment of the posters here who still see Matheson as the incarnation of evil.

I've just learned to ignore the empty noise.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I've been following this team for almost 70 years and the whipping boy syndrome is nothing new. And the ridiculous takes that support these views are laughable. Hey, there's a 'healthy' segment of the posters here who still see Matheson as the incarnation of evil.

I've just learned to ignore the empty noise.

Matheson has been so much better since he conceded the offensive role to Hutson, picking his spots with greater authority and smarts, and being very good on the defensive end.

At this point, you can't trade Matheson, doesn't matter the offer.

 

[sampollock]

Matheson has been so much better since he conceded the offensive role to Hutson, picking his spots with greater authority and smarts, and being very good on the defensive end.

At this point, you can't trade Matheson, doesn't matter the offer.

disagree
If a really good offer is made. move him

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Awful 1st period. Outshot 14-1. Lol The Utes got 11 shots the rest of the night. Montreal played much better after 1. Habs ended the night outshooting Utah 26-25.

Montembeault was excellent.
Hutson is a beauty
Ditto Caufield
2 goals by Dach
Laine's 1st 5 on 5 goal

We needed this to keep pace. Now, onto Dallas for Thursday's game.

Playing Dallas is a whole different proposition. The loss of Heineman’s speed, high tempo play and physicality (particularly on the forecheck) will be very noticeable.

 

[WeThreeKings]

disagree
If a really good offer is made. move him

I wouldn't touch anything right now. The team is humming. He's playing great hockey and doing it paired with Hutson. We don't need futures, we need a competent defense with enough veteran presence back there.

We are simply in a different stage of the rebuild.

 

[Andrei79]

disagree
If a really good offer is made. move him

What kind of good offer could be expected though ?

Management has to be careful about the message theyre sending. They've been pretty transparent with the players, who expected veterans to be dealt out over the last years. However, trading their top pairing RD, who plays in all situations would send a conflicting message, in a situation where there's clearly trust between management and the players, the plans of the former and the objectives of the latter. Just can't see how that would make sense unless they make a clear upgrade (which isn't likely) and where lockerroom chemistry isn't disrupted.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Matheson has been so much better since he conceded the offensive role to Hutson, picking his spots with greater authority and smarts, and being very good on the defensive end.

At this point, you can't trade Matheson, doesn't matter the offer.

There was no point in time that we should have traded this highly mobile defenceman and team leader. You can list on the figures of one hand the defencemen in the league that could have scored the goal that Matheson scored last night.

I have been on this board for over two decades and I will again repeat my favorite warning: You trade away the mobility/skating that players like Matheson can provide, at your franchise's great peril.

In my opinion, there was never a time that Hughes/MSL ever realistically contemplated trading Matheson. Regardless of the noise on this and other boards.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Matheson has been so much better since he conceded the offensive role to Hutson, picking his spots with greater authority and smarts, and being very good on the defensive end.

At this point, you can't trade Matheson, doesn't matter the offer.

I'm not sure you can't trade Matheson, but speaking as someone who defended Matheson a lot, the argument was always that he was playing a role that he wasn't suited for (massive minutes - all situations D-man). He's still averaging over 24 minutes a night, but that's over a minute less than last season. He doesn't have to QB the PP1, so he's got more energy on the PK and 5v5.

The reason he was acquired (needing a veteran D to take tough minutes to help the young D) has never changed and he's always played that role well. Its just that Montreal has a 3 other top-4 D in Hutson, Guhle and Carrier instead of just Guhle.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm not sure you can't trade Matheson, but speaking as someone who defended Matheson a lot, the argument was always that he was playing a role that he wasn't suited for (massive minutes - all situations D-man). He's still averaging over 24 minutes a night, but that's over a minute less than last season. He doesn't have to QB the PP1, so he's got more energy on the PK and 5v5.

The reason he was acquired (needing a veteran D to take tough minutes to help the young D) has never changed and he's always played that role well. Its just that Montreal has a 3 other top-4 D in Hutson, Guhle and Carrier instead of just Guhle.

Putting people in the right chair usually maximizes their effectiveness. We've seen it with Carrier. I think we'll see it with Newhook as well.

We saw it with Petry and Matheson is very much like Petry. Needs to be in the top pairing chair and it was bad.. when he was behind Weber on the 2nd pair, it was very good.

 

[Redux91]

I guess I should give a little credit where it's due

Matheson made up for the early gaff with a GREAT goal, showing off that speed again finally

But it was his pass to Hutson I didn't realize at first was that impressive, no-look snaps it to Lane to put him in a great scoring chance spot which in fact led to the GWG by Cole
So, props to him, for sure

(Btw if you watch Caufield on the entire replay, watch him SCHOOL Sergachev at the face off lmao , spin off him and head to the net ready for a great pass, just awesome)

 

[sampollock]

What kind of good offer could be expected though ?

Management has to be careful about the message theyre sending. They've been pretty transparent with the players, who expected veterans to be dealt out over the last years. However, trading their top pairing RD, who plays in all situations would send a conflicting message, in a situation where there's clearly trust between management and the players, the plans of the former and the objectives of the latter. Just can't see how that would make sense unless they make a clear upgrade (which isn't likely) and where lockerroom chemistry isn't disrupted.

totally agree
but if the offer is really good like a #1 pick that KH could flip, maybe he does it
offer has to be good though

 

[Kennerback]

I guess I should give a little credit where it's due

Matheson made up for the early gaff with a GREAT goal, showing off that speed again finally

But it was his pass to Hutson I didn't realize at first was that impressive, no-look snaps it to Lane to put him in a great scoring chance spot which in fact led to the GWG by Cole
So, props to him, for sure

(Btw if you watch Caufield on the entire replay, watch him SCHOOL Sergachev at the face off lmao , spin off him and head to the net ready for a great pass, just awesome)

Matheson is always the same guy. The coaching staff has a big responsibility in playing him properly. He’s not a plug and play D. Coaching can make him look good or very bad.

 

[Rapala]

OK but he's -17; so that means he's bad defensively.

No it means so far this season his line and unit of five have been bad defensively.
This is also reflected in the Pens goal differential.

Not one person gave the Islanders or the Caps a hope in hell in the post season last year with their -17 and -37 goal differentials there is no way special teams could overcome that deficit.

Look at us we are now at -12 and have come down from -31.
Dach's line has been playing a huge part in the resurgence along with our top 4 Dmen.
Suzuki is now a +5 he's never been on the positive side as a 1C in his career it's not meaningless.

I agree with you when you say the stat is not perfect but neither is GA when looking at goal-
tending but it tells a story over time.

Bottom line for me at the end of the season +/- is a worthwhile stat and very much an indicator of how a player has performed. I just have to look at the Florida Panthers individual stats last season to understand that.