Post-Game Talk: Habs defeat the Preds, pad lead in WC2

[StCaufield]

He’s still the only hab D that can skate and muscle with the biggest fastest forwards. Hopefully Reinbacher becomes that…

He’s not close to the same skating ability as Matheson. Hardly any D man is

 

[StCaufield]

No, all we want is a player who plays within his limits. If he did he would be extremely effective.

Whatever, I'll stop on this subject but I don't see how some can defend the mistakes he makes. He seems to get a pass on all those high danger blunders.

Nah he’s a scapegoat. Players make mistakes and on here people complain rightfully but they don’t go on about it for days like Matheson. His pros severely outweigh the cons

 

[Favster]

ultimate Big picture says Matheson’s performance this year in terms of overall growth taking on big TOI w difficult Dzone starts etc. have only increased his market value

Matheson’s overall game has grown significantly this year, which in the eyes of other GMs will be viewed positively & create more interest

This big picture view has been overlooked completely by the critical fanbase that’s only obsessed with offensive stats as the be all & end all.

I'm hoping you're right but I doubt it. Teams know that he has too many brain farts. If I'm building a stanley cup contending team I do not want him on my team. At the highest level the margin between an L and a W is too small, you can't afford to have a guy who makes so many costly mistakes, regardless how good he is 99% of the time.

 

[Favster]

Nah he’s a scapegoat. Players make mistakes and on here people complain rightfully but they don’t go on about it for days like Matheson. His pros severely outweigh the cons

I disagree. It's OK we don't have to agree.

 

[StCaufield]

And some people and even Engels himself seem to be missing THE ACTUAL big picture

Which is Matheson is going to need a new contract soon and we're overloaded at LD
Sure he's fine at 4.8M but once he's making 7+mill in his 30's still shitting the bed with these mistakes and blocking most of our LD's still
You and his handful of supporters left will be singing a different tune methinks..

Most of us are just preparing for the worst essentially
And that's 5-6 more years of a degrading and overpaid Matheson.
Can't happen.

He’s underpaid. He’s probably worth 5.5-6. Also Engels is a moron and won’t ever say anything that bad about players because he has to face them every day. AKA a coward

 

[Redux91]

"Why? There's no real evidence to support that view."

"There's still a need for a more veteran minute muncher, but its not clear that Matheson is that player."

I mean why respond to me at all with this lol
Like what are we doing here..

 

[salbutera]

I'm hoping you're right but I doubt it. Teams know that he has too many brain farts. If I'm building a stanley cup contending team I do not want him on my team. At the highest level the margin between an L and a W is too small, you can't afford to have a guy who makes so many costly mistakes, regardless how good he is 99% of the time.

Matheson is an excellent 2nd pairing guy & getting paid well below his current usage.

GMs will recognize that… Rds last night mentioned Matheson is 3rd in icetime amongst ALL Dman in the NHL.

When you play that much, errors are inevitable, but the biased fan only focuses on mistakes but never the 80% good.

 

[Redux91]

ultimate Big picture says Matheson’s performance this year in terms of overall growth taking on big TOI w difficult Dzone starts etc. have only increased his market value

Matheson’s overall game has grown significantly this year, which in the eyes of other GMs will be viewed positively & create more interest

This big picture view has been overlooked completely by the critical fanbase that’s only obsessed with offensive stats as the be all & end all.

He's only playing 30 minutes a game because the rest of the D is still deemed too 'young' by the coaching staff, but it is quickly maturing this year

It's a little "too bad" Matheson didn't miss time with an injury this year so that Management could see how we looked without him
We just played a game without Savard and the wheels didn't fall off

2 years ago when Matheson started the year hurt and we stuck a 20 YR OLD Kaiden Guhle there instead , it was a revelation ffs, he was amazing in the Matheson role and that was TWO years ago

We simply just do not need this guy anymore, and especially not with a f***ing salary raise lol

Luckily for me, Gorton knows all of this. All of it. And they won't let me down here, they know what they have to do

 

[salbutera]

He's only playing 30 minutes a game because the rest of the D is still deemed too 'young' by the coaching staff, but it is quickly maturing this year

It's a little "too bad" Matheson didn't miss time with an injury this year so that Management could see how we looked without him
We just played a game without Savard and the wheels didn't fall off

2 years ago when Matheson started the year hurt and we stuck a 20 YR OLD Kaiden Guhle there instead , it was a revelation ffs, he was amazing in the Matheson role and that was TWO years ago

We simply just do not need this guy anymore, and especially not with a f***ing salary raise lol

Luckily for me, Gorton knows all of this. All of it. And they won't let me down here, they know what they have to do

And who’s going to play 25TOI regularly w tough Dzone starts when Guhle gets hurt next time?

 

[Fuonki]

Nah he’s a scapegoat. Players make mistakes and on here people complain rightfully but they don’t go on about it for days like Matheson. His pros severely outweigh the cons

I'd love to see those pros that somehow manage to outweigh the team conceding massively more scoring chances against whenever he's on the ice. Yes he's a scapegoat in the sense that he's playing minutes that he never should, but at this point you really should decide how much do you value sheltering Hutson, Guhle & Struble over actually playing competitive hockey.

 

[salbutera]

 

[ChesterNimitz]

He’s still the only hab D that can skate and muscle with the biggest fastest forwards. Hopefully Reinbacher becomes that…

Not only does Matheson usually play the most minutes : he plays the hardest minutes, against the opponents’ best forwards.

I would hate to think what our defence would look like without Matheson patrolling the back end.

 

[13 Black]

lose a game or 2? They need 6 points in 5 games. If they lose 2. Then they need 6 points in 3. They can’t afford to lose 2 games in reg.

Ideally yes i don't disagree but 6 pts = 3 wins out of 5 hence why i said losing 1 or 2. Losing 2 would be playing with fire for sure though. Best scenario is of course to win them all or lose 1 at most certainly

 

[Redux91]

And who’s going to play 25TOI regularly w tough Dzone starts when Guhle gets hurt next time?

Easy
Whoever we trade Matheson+ for.
It's not complicated lol

 

[Redux91]

I'd love to see those pros that somehow manage to outweigh the team conceding massively more scoring chances against whenever he's on the ice. Yes he's a scapegoat in the sense that he's playing minutes that he never should, but at this point you really should decide how much do you value sheltering Hutson, Guhle & Struble over actually playing competitive hockey.

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Lol thank you
What a shocker..

 

[Naslundforever]

I'd love to see those pros that somehow manage to outweigh the team conceding massively more scoring chances against whenever he's on the ice. Yes he's a scapegoat in the sense that he's playing minutes that he never should, but at this point you really should decide how much do you value sheltering Hutson, Guhle & Struble over actually playing competitive hockey.

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Any correlation to the fact he takes D-zone starts? If he’s taking the most the graph would be expected it seems.

Also neutral zone shots against are down with him on so there’s that lol.

 

[OldCraig71]

Dobes really struggled on every shot in the first period. Everything was an adventure, but luck was on his side, with the Preds hitting posts and a few pucks dribbling just past the goal posts. He looked nervous, but to his credit, he battled through.

Primeau, by comparison, couldn't seem to overcome mistakes and would have probably allowed more goals. Dobes won't stop fighting and has a whack-job temper to go along with it.

For those who have watched him in the AHL, has he been in any fights? He comes across as a loose cannon.

 

[Fuonki]

Any correlation to the fact he takes D-zone starts? If he’s taking the most the graph would be expected it seems.

Also neutral zone shots against are down with him on so there’s that lol.

These are all adjusted for deployment, score effects, teammates & quality of competition. He's still probably a helpful player when given sheltered deployment on the 2nd pair + PP, but we already have a far better player in Hutson for that exact role.

 

[MXD]

Matheson shows some very obvious signs of mental fatigue. He's overplayed. He's a 2nd pairing player getting 2nd line money but he's getting 1st pairing icetime.

 

[BLONG7]

Not only does Matheson usually play the most minutes : he plays the hardest minutes, against the opponents’ best forwards.

I would hate to think what our defence would look like without Matheson patrolling the back end.

The hardest minutes is bang on................and Suzuki said the same thing a few weeks back.
Mistakes happen............but he is more valuable than just that one play guys.
We need MM in that 2nd pairing guys....or 1st pairing for that much.
I really think most of the mistakes come when he is overused....

 

[RandR]

The hardest minutes is bang on................and Suzuki said the same thing a few weeks back.
Mistakes happen............but he is more valuable than just that one play guys.
We need MM in that 2nd pairing guys....or 1st pairing for that much.
I really think most of the mistakes come when he is overused....

Well said.

Sure, the Nashville goal was due to an atrocious blunder by Matheson. If that had happened in the 3rd period and been the winning goal, then fine, people who be right to focus on that at the end of the game. However, it happened early in the game and the Habs not only overcame it, but Matheson was a critical piece in protecting the lead once they went ahead. Not only did he play almost 32 minutes, he also played all but 10 seconds of the 4 penalties they killed. Nashville is weak offensively, but especially with Savard being rested, I don’t think the Habs would have won this game without Matheson putting that blunder behind him.

On another note, I think Newhook has been pretty good down the stretch, including this game. He isn’t what we were hoping for in terms of scoring, but he is making a solid contribution with his speed and all-around play.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Nah he’s a scapegoat. Players make mistakes and on here people complain rightfully but they don’t go on about it for days like Matheson. His pros severely outweigh the cons

i’ve been a fan of this team for almost seventy years and it would seem that in each era our delightful fans have demonstrated a need to have their designated whipping boy. From Geoffrion to Rucinsky and now Matheson, some people need a target to focus their frustrations and disappointments on. I suppose it happens on all teams in all sports. In fact, it happens in all walks of life. I’ve learned to just ignore the noise.

If you would have predicted at the start of the season that with five games to go Montreal would be holding on to a playoff position , most would have thought that you were being optimistically delusional. Bottom line, without Matheson’s overall level of play and contribution, we wouldn’t be in this position. Not even close.

 

[salbutera]

Easy
Whoever we trade Matheson+ for.
It's not complicated lol

I assume teams are lining up to trade away their 25TOI+ 1Dman?

 

[HeussLenfoire]

Matheson also plays against the opponent’s teams best players, which your data doesn’t say. You need to be honest if you want a debate, not just pull out some data without any context. Data is great, however it’s better when it’s paired with a brain to analyze it.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I assume teams are lining up to trade away their 25TOI+ 1Dman?

I have been preaching here for the almost the past quarter century that you trade away the elite skating ability/mobility that a player like Matheson provides at your team's great peril. To this writer, it remains puzzling why some (many?) believe that Matheson remains a roadblock to the team's success, when in fact Matheson's elite skating was one of the principle reasons why the team was usually competitive last year and is on the verge of securing a playoff spot this year.

In Matheson, we have one of the most mobile defencemen in the league, who on some nights plays in excess of 30 minutes; who plays in all game situations; who automatically plays against the other teams' best forwards, is a respected team leader, is local boy who wants to play in Montreal and who is playing for a sub $5 million dollar contract that extends to next year. Definitely sounds like a player we should be getting rid of.

Puzzling, to say the least.