LeBrun: Guentzel: Pens want prospects over picks - Carolina favorite

[MarkusNaslund19]

I like how asking for a 1st and 2 2nds in value is somehow this unrealistic value for a 40 goal scorer.

Canucks fans are insufferable in these threads. Why don't you let other fans talk about what they'd offer for Guentzel instead of flooding every Guentzel thread with lowball offers and page long justifications for those lowball offers?

I think your frustration with the season (and maybe direction) of your team is spreading a bit unfairly here.

The Canucks were mentioned in the OP with a speculated/desired return. Canucks fans are just (understandably) responding to that.

I will be disappointed if we deal Hoglander for Guentzel. This has nothing to do with the quality of Guentzel as a player and everything to do with age, contract status, team control etc.

I haven't seen any Canucks fan saying, 'you'll take our scraps and like it'. I have seen Canucks fans saying, 'if that's the price, we're not paying it' which is reasonable.

The Canucks are at the beginning of their window. We already dealt our first and prospects for Lindholm. It doesn't make sense to blow our brains out going for it this year while shortening our window by losing a bunch of currency/prospects/young and cheap reinforcements because we dealt for 2 UFAs in the first season we were good.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Knights are going to need a couple of value contracts, and those are the two prime suspects for next season. They don’t screw around when they want someone though, so possibly….. but if I had to guess, maybe they get one of those two, or it will be much closer to Chayka and Sapovaliv.

You generally would trade Korzcak and Brisson in a trade for a player with term (or at least another year), if they packaged them. They’re guaranteed prospects, who’ve both played in the NHL already. Not sure any other team would be prepared to send anything similar for a UFA, they likely can’t resign. Those are two types you send for Buchnevich right now.

I thought about that point more and I realized that you're right. I think they'd get one of Brisson or Korczak, but not both.

I swapped out Korczak and a 2024 2nd for Cataford and a 2024 1st from that offer. So Brisson, Cataford and a 2024 1st for Guentzel at 50%.

 

[SI90]

You can't have picks conditional on a player signing

I keep forgetting they stopped that shit

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think your frustration with the season (and maybe direction) of your team is spreading a bit unfairly here.

The Canucks were mentioned in the OP with a speculated/desired return. Canucks fans are just (understandably) responding to that.

I will be disappointed if we deal Hoglander for Guentzel. This has nothing to do with the quality of Guentzel as a player and everything to do with age, contract status, team control etc.

I haven't seen any Canucks fan saying, 'you'll take our scraps and like it'. I have seen Canucks fans saying, 'if that's the price, we're not paying it' which is reasonable.

The Canucks are at the beginning of their window. We already dealt our first and prospects for Lindholm. It doesn't make sense to blow our brains out going for it this year while shortening our window by losing a bunch of currency/prospects/young and cheap reinforcements because we dealt for 2 UFAs in the first season we were good.

Uh, are we reading the same thread? There have been numerous Canucks fans saying stuff like "Podkolzin, Raty and a 2nd is enough", "Podkolzin and a 1st is enough" or "Raty and a 1st is enough".

The reality is that you're right here: the Canucks already dealt their 1st and prospects for Lindholm. That just means they won't get Guentzel. That's an entirely fine outcome here, no one is in trouble if Guentzel doesn't get traded to Vancouver. Yet there keeps being Canucks fans insisting that they can still get him, and why Penguins fans should be fine with whatever other package they can throw together.

The Canucks offer to get Guentzel would have been Raty, Brzustewicz and a 2024 1st, and I don't know that would have won the bidding. Now that they don't have a 2024 1st, the only way they're getting him is if they include Hoglander. If they won't, they just don't get him. That's okay, no one is in trouble, but that's just the reality here.

If the best offer is something like Raty and a 2nd, I'd recommend talking to New Jersey about Toffoli.

 

[Ryder71]

Almost Every single team that' we'd deal with would want salary retention. Well, you gotta pay for that. PPL round here are just taking that component for granted. That's not how it works. We retain that much, you are going to pay for it!

 

[brentashton]

I'm not exactly sure what Van's cap situation is, but Myers just went to IR.

How convenient.

 

[Ryder71]

I'm not exactly sure what Van's cap situation is, but Myers just went to IR.

They have 3.3 mil available. But even if Myers is on LTIR is he out til the playoffs? Also don't they need to make a couple of moves?

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

How convenient.

I heard the Chaos Giraffe already inadvertently knocked over the shelves full of splints, bandages, and tape in the trainer's office.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Uh, are we reading the same thread? There have been numerous Canucks fans saying stuff like "Podkolzin, Raty and a 2nd is enough", "Podkolzin and a 1st is enough" or "Raty and a 1st is enough".

The reality is that you're right here: the Canucks already dealt their 1st and prospects for Lindholm. That just means they won't get Guentzel. That's an entirely fine outcome here, no one is in trouble if Guentzel doesn't get traded to Vancouver. Yet there keeps being Canucks fans insisting that they can still get him, and why Penguins fans should be fine with whatever other package they can throw together.

The Canucks offer to get Guentzel would have been Raty, Brzustewicz and a 2024 1st, and I don't know that would have won the bidding. Now that they don't have a 2024 1st, the only way they're getting him is if they include Hoglander. If they won't, they just don't get him. That's okay, no one is in trouble.

Enough in terms of that's the max we're offering.

If you're letting that become an implication, in your mind, that says that Canucks fans are the arbiters of what other teams will offer then you're gonna have a bad time in here.

It's true, we're not offering more than that and your response of 'then you don't get Guentzel' is most likely true.

Other teams can come in and offer more, I doubt any Canucks fan is going to say, 'no you won't offer that, because we offered enough'.

 

[mattydamon]

Don't do it Alvin!

 

[Empoleon8771]

Enough in terms of that's the max we're offering.

If you're letting that become an implication, in your mind, that says that Canucks fans are the arbiters of what other teams will offer then you're gonna have a bad time in here.

It's true, we're not offering more than that and your response of 'then you don't get Guentzel' is most likely true.

Other teams can come in and offer more, I doubt any Canucks fan is going to say, 'no you won't offer that, because we offered enough'.

No, enough as in "this is enough for Vancouver to acquire Guentzel". Both this thread and the other Guentzel thread are just Canucks fans trying to rationalize how a package including a few of Raty, Podkolzin, Pettersson, a 2025 1st and a 2025 2nd is enough for the Canucks to get Guentzel.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Then you're not getting Jake Guentzel.

Again, for the millionth time, why do Canucks fans seriously think the Canucks are the only team interested in Guentzel? Every Guentzel thread for the last month has been Canucks fans making bad offers and trying to convince Penguins fans that the offers aren't bad. If the Canucks are going to try to be cheap and not be willing to trade any of their big pieces for Guentzel, they will simply be out-bid by other teams. This isn't "I want an unrealistic return for Guentzel", it's realizing that other teams simply have better assets that they'd be willing to trade.



I think you're severely overrating Carolina's pieces if you think that is accurate.

I like Nadeau, but he's not even the best prospect of that group there. Samoskevich probably is.

This is an example btw. You're railing against 'Canucks fans' and our lowball offers.
The post you quoted literally started with, 'I think Guentzel ends up in Vegas'. What more do you want?

 

[Ryder71]

Enough in terms of that's the max we're offering.

If you're letting that become an implication, in your mind, that says that Canucks fans are the arbiters of what other teams will offer then you're gonna have a bad time in here.

It's true, we're not offering more than that and your response of 'then you don't get Guentzel' is most likely true.

Other teams can come in and offer more, I doubt any Canucks fan is going to say, 'no you won't offer that, because we offered enough'.

Let me ask you something, and I'm not trying to be a jerk. However you guys have never won a cup. You legitimately are in the mix, if a guy who's a proven playoff dynamo comes into your line up that could potentially put you guys over the top, what is that worth? Legit question.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is an example btw. You're railing against 'Canucks fans' and our lowball offers.
The post you quoted literally started with, 'I think Guentzel ends up in Vegas'. What more do you want?

Why even come in here and post a lowball, unreasonable offer that will clearly be beat out by other teams?

At least in my eyes, I'm trying to talk about what I think a Guentzel to Vancouver trade would realistically look like. Guentzel isn't going to be traded to Vancouver for a "we don't want to pay fair value" offer. So what's even the point of posting that?

 

[Ryder71]

I sincerely believe Jake would prefer going to the Canucks because it's Pittsburgh west.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Why even come in here and post a lowball, unreasonable offer that will clearly be beat out by other teams?

At least in my eyes, I'm trying to talk about what I think a Guentzel to Vancouver trade would realistically look like. Guentzel isn't going to be traded to Vancouver for a "we don't want to pay fair value" offer. So what's even the point of posting that?

For what it’s worth, you’re responding to a poster who argued that Jim Benning had done a great job, even after the OEL trade. He’s not a great representation of Canucks fans.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

It won't be anything at all because there's no way we're doing that. You gotta give to get. And if you guys aren't happy with what happened with Lindholm we're not paying the price for that.


You're not even trying at this point.

I'm probably the only nuck fan who thinks this but I have no problem giving up Lekkerimaki over Podz and Raty, especially since that likely means Mikheyev goes the other way and Jake is extended.
Lekkerimaki may very well end up better than Podz and I understand non nuck fans not appreciating what Podz potentially could be but given our window and serious need for NHL ready ELC contracts next year those two even with just their floor provide what Leks can't over the next few years.

Throw in the fact that Leks has the kind of value along with a high pick that allows us to move Mikheyev and his cap and likely extend Jake.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Why even come in here and post a lowball, unreasonable offer that will clearly be beat out by other teams?

At least in my eyes, I'm trying to talk about what I think a Guentzel to Vancouver trade would realistically look like. Guentzel isn't going to be traded to Vancouver for a "we don't want to pay fair value" offer. So what's even the point of posting that?

It was that posters idea of what they think the Canucks best offer would be. Nowhere was it suggested that Pittsburgh would take it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I sincerely believe Jake would prefer going to the Canucks because it's Pittsburgh west.

Eh Vancouver is super expensive and taxes are high. I don't think it's fair to speak for what players would or wouldn't want when it comes to situations like that.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Almost Every single team that' we'd deal with would want salary retention. Well, you gotta pay for that. PPL round here are just taking that component for granted. That's not how it works. We retain that much, you are going to pay for it!

Respectfully, that stance implies that the Pens would trade him for less without retention. That’s a pretty hollow threat. It’s one thing if you’re Arizona taking a haircut on Gostisbehere to preserve retention spots for other things (Bjugstad and intermediary on Kane). Pittsburgh has all 3 here.

Teams have largely been built with the expectation of deadline retention in this flat cap era. We’ll see what the future holds.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It was that posters idea of what they think the Canucks best offer would be. Nowhere was it suggested that Pittsburgh would take it.

But again, what's the point of that? If we're trying to discuss what a realistic Guentzel to Vancouver trade could look like, what's the point of that?

That's why I keep saying "if Hoglander isn't included, then Vancouver isn't getting Guentzel". It's not that I particularly want Hoglander, it's that if Vancouver doesn't offer Hoglander, they'll be outbid by other teams. It's not "Hoglander is the piece I want and nothing else is acceptable", it's "other teams will beat the offer by offering their own Hoglander caliber asset".

If we're talking about my opinion, Vancouver is very low in terms of attractiveness of assets to offer for Guentzel for me. They're above Edmonton but that's really about it. If it's "what do I want?", I'm not considering Vancouver before Carolina, Florida or Vegas.

 

[Ryder71]

Eh Vancouver is super expensive and taxes are high. I don't think it's fair to speak for what players would or wouldn't want when it comes to situations like that.

Well, Jake likes a certain routine as most players do. I'm not exactly going out on a limb there. I know he likes Tocchet, all those guys did. Also, image is important to FSG and Dubas and they'd like to do well by their players. Now, that doesn't mean you just give him away, absolutely not. But all things being equal I think VAN has a pretty decent chance. And knowing how JR is, We're not gonna walk away with peanuts.

 

[Peter Griffin]

But again, what's the point of that? If we're trying to discuss what a realistic Guentzel to Vancouver trade could look like, what's the point of that?

To show that they don’t think Vancouver is a serious suitor for Guentzel?

Not every poster is going to come in here and say “Lekkerimaki! Hoglander! Willander! Take whatever you want!”

That's why I keep saying "if Hoglander isn't included, then Vancouver isn't getting Guentzel". It's not that I particularly want Hoglander, it's that if Vancouver doesn't offer Hoglander, they'll be outbid by other teams. It's not "Hoglander is the piece I want and nothing else is acceptable", it's "other teams will beat the offer by offering their own Hoglander caliber asset".

From what I’ve read, most Canucks’ fans are saying they don’t see any of Hoglander/Lekkerimaki/Willander being dealt for an impending UFA so if a Guentzel trade were to happen it would have to be for X/Y/Z. That doesn’t suggest at all that Pittsburgh would have to or would accept it, just what they feel is the Canucks’ best offer.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

I know Vancouver fans think it doesn’t make sense to go all in this year to win when the window is just beginning. However, take it from Pens fans who know…. JR won’t be shy about going all in every year.
That’s why we are so short on prospects.

 

[Ryder71]

To show that they don’t think Vancouver is a serious suitor for Guentzel?

Not every poster is going to come in here and say “Lekkerimaki! Hoglander! Willander! Take whatever you want!”

No, it's the other way around. NOT ONE poster is suggesting LEKK, WILL or Hogs is on the table, again not one.