Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Training Camp Begins

[wonton15]

Just wanna say Allvin is a god.

I remember all our roster projections and it was a struggle to build a competitive team and still somehow fit under the cap.

Well, season is about to start and our roster looks as good as anyone could have predicted and we still somehow have 1.25M in cap space.

Guy just finds a way.

Doing all this while paying to undo Benning’s parting gifts and icing one of the deepest teams we’ve seen is impressive as hell.

 

[Vector]

 

[Lupuls Grit]

I hope the Canucks don't lose Friedman. He is very important depth. I trust him much more than I trust any of the other AHL defenders, including Brannstrom (and Juulsen for that matter but I think the team expected he would be claimed if waived).

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Oh I definitely don’t think Yzerman is some sort of God-level GM. It’s difficult to transition after years of going through a tear down build through the draft process when you don’t start with Stamkos and Hedman and add a Kucherov and Point etc in the process.

But it would be intellectually dishonest (do people still use this phrase?) if I thought the Wings extracted a huge price from the Canucks then heavily criticize Yzerman for not shopping Hronek to every team.

Not me, i think the Hronek trade was pretty fair value at the time

Fans just had PTSD from Jim Benning

 

[StickShift]

Can't send down Silovs (or at least would need to recall someone else at barely any savings) while Demko is injured and on IR, we need 2 goalies on roster. So by yo-yoing Raty that's only like 250K of savings, which is relatively insignificant

They could just put Friedman up and down on waivers too for the next 30 days to serve the same purpose.

 

[wonton15]

Good for him but I’d rather see Raty in. With Joshua almost back, and Garland+Suter in, Bains shouldn’t see this lineup

 

[LemonSauceD]

Anyone else remember Green sitting Boeser for the first 2 games of the season during his rookie year? After all the excitement we had about him coming over. Lol

 

[Hansen]

Anyone else remember Green sitting Boeser for the first 2 games of the season during his rookie year? After all the excitement we had about him coming over. Lol

Some of the stupidest shit Id ever seen from an NHL coach, and we had just gotten through years of Willie D

 

[Wisp]

green deserves some credit for integrating young players. sitting Boeser for his first 2 games as a rookie is not a big deal. playing petey as a center took balls.

it was in other aspects, he was subpar.

 

[MS]

Anyone else remember Green sitting Boeser for the first 2 games of the season during his rookie year? After all the excitement we had about him coming over. Lol

Yup.

Scored 4 goals in 9 games the previous year, absolutely lit up the preseason and was our best player ... and they scratch him so they can dress guys like Burmistrov/Granlund/Virtanen.

Was the most Travis Green thing he ever did.

green deserves some credit for integrating young players. sitting Boeser for his first 2 games as a rookie is not a big deal. playing petey as a center took balls.

it was in other aspects, he was subpar.

Travis Green was the worst coach I have ever seen at integrating young players. Nobody developed under him except Tyler Motte.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Not a secret he sees himself as a top 4D and wanted the minutes and money. My guess is Allvin was very blunt about it.

Probably among my favourite players we've ever acquired. Alas, we couldn't afford the luxury of paying 5.5M for a third pairing guy who can fill in as a #4 but hasn't been consistent about staying there.

 

[krutovsdonut]

demko, hughes, horvat and ep40 all did fine under green. if green hurt the development of any other guys they didn't recover with other teams. the only young guy who improved after he left was dowd. you could maybe argue green hurt hoglander i guess.

it's actually a thing about green in his favour. when boudreau and tochett came in they didn't find neglected diamonds in the rough. they continued to develop guys who had been developing under green and the guys who had been flailing continued to flail.

 

[Blue and Green]

I hope the Canucks don't lose Friedman. He is very important depth. I trust him much more than I trust any of the other AHL defenders, including Brannstrom (and Juulsen for that matter but I think the team expected he would be claimed if waived).

He's expendable. Juulsen functions as the 4th guy on the right side and I doubt that Friedman on the left side is any more capable than Brannstrom or Wolanin. This is the easiest move in terms of saving some cap space; they still have 13F and 7D on the roster.

 

[LemonSauceD]

demko, hughes, horvat and ep40 all did fine under green. if green hurt the development of any other guys they didn't recover with other teams. the only young guy who improved after he left was dowd. you could maybe argue green hurt hoglander i guess.

it's actually a thing about green in his favour. when boudreau and tochett came in they didn't find neglected diamonds in the rough. they continued to develop guys who had been developing under green and the guys who had been flailing continued to flail.

Horvat was the only real growth we’ve seen from a younger player under Green.

 

[F A N]

Not me, i think the Hronek trade was pretty fair value at the time

Fans just had PTSD from Jim Benning

That's fine. The point remains that people often get worked up over "negotiation tactics." Like Yzerman didn't shop Hronek around and Allvin simply accepted Yzerman's demand without countering. I mean it's valid criticism but negotiations are often more nuanced. Part of it is trusting the person you're dealing with. A lot of times you just don't want to go 12 rounds with another GM. I think all else being equal, you want to be the GM that a team trusts to be easy to deal with. Part of the job of being a GM is having an accurate valuation of your own player's trade value around the league and know what another team might be looking for. In this case, Yzerman got what he wanted and Allvin got what he wanted for what you agree to be a pretty fair price.

 

[PavelBure10]

Friedman is a warrior. He takes a beating and keeps on trucking. Friedman sacrifices his body and his well being just as much as anyone in the league in order for his team to win. A true character guy and a complete team player. Friedman is a excellent depth defenseman and I really hope he clears. A great depth soldier for the Canucks

 

[MS]

demko, hughes, horvat and ep40 all did fine under green. if green hurt the development of any other guys they didn't recover with other teams. the only young guy who improved after he left was dowd. you could maybe argue green hurt hoglander i guess.

it's actually a thing about green in his favour. when boudreau and tochett came in they didn't find neglected diamonds in the rough. they continued to develop guys who had been developing under green and the guys who had been flailing continued to flail.

All of those guys came in as basically NHL-ready impact players and then regressed, same with Boeser. Horvat basically flatlined. Then all of them exploded after Green was fired.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

 

[krutovsdonut]

All of those guys came in as basically NHL-ready impact players and then regressed, same with Boeser. Horvat basically flatlined. Then all of them exploded after Green was fired.

i forgot boeser. could any of their development delay issues be perhaps attributed to other things like covid or the team's overall quality, or can you state with any certainty that it was green?

because all i see is your subjective take that players who have since developed into the core of the team were harmed or held back by green but then perservered, as opposed to other causes or just natural career progression to explain their career arcs? how do you zero in on green?

otoh, can you refute my take that only one young player i can think of, dowd*, has played better since leaving the canucks after green? to me a hallmark of a bad coach is players who are held back by him and then leave and thrive elsewhere. you'd certainly expect to see some if he's the worst coach you've ever seen at integrating young players.

the absence of such players to me is a very strong indication green was not holding young player development back. it's one of many reasons i think the verdict is out on green as a coach. i don't think he's likely to be exceptional, but i think he may be a competent coach who was saddled here with badly built teams, an immature core, and the circumstances of covid.

* i will grant you gudbranson had that one goodish season.

 

[JT Milker]

Gudbranson has never had a good nhl season in his career.

 

[BimJenning]

Gudbranson has never had a good nhl season in his career.

You're right, but he's had plenty of...Gud ones



I'll show myself the door

 

[RobsonStreet]

i forgot boeser. could any of their development delay issues be perhaps attributed to other things like covid or the team's overall quality, or can you state with any certainty that it was green?

because all i see is your subjective take that players who have since developed into the core of the team were harmed or held back by green but then perservered, as opposed to other causes or just natural career progression to explain their career arcs? how do you zero in on green?

otoh, can you refute my take that only one young player i can think of, dowd*, has played better since leaving the canucks after green? to me a hallmark of a bad coach is players who are held back by him and then leave and thrive elsewhere. you'd certainly expect to see some if he's the worst coach you've ever seen at integrating young players.

the absence of such players to me is a very strong indication green was not holding young player development back. it's one of many reasons i think the verdict is out on green as a coach. i don't think he's likely to be exceptional, but i think he may be a competent coach who was saddled here with badly built teams, an immature core, and the circumstances of covid.

* i will grant you gudbranson had that one goodish season.

Sorry, but that’s a bad test. If a player’s development is wrecked by their situation, the odds become long that they will get a good opportunity elsewhere - they get passed by other prospects, that’s survivorship bias 101. Beyond that, there’s more variability when a player changes teams than when that same player has different coaches on the same team.

There is no pure test, but if a decent number of well regarded prospects underperform under one coach, and improve when he leaves and if this pattern happens in more than one stop, that’s about as good as we’re likely to get. We’ll see how it goes in Ottawa.

 

[krutovsdonut]

We’ll see how it goes in Ottawa.

agreed. the best test would be a full season or more there. (or less!)

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

That's fine. The point remains that people often get worked up over "negotiation tactics." Like Yzerman didn't shop Hronek around and Allvin simply accepted Yzerman's demand without countering. I mean it's valid criticism but negotiations are often more nuanced. Part of it is trusting the person you're dealing with. A lot of times you just don't want to go 12 rounds with another GM. I think all else being equal, you want to be the GM that a team trusts to be easy to deal with. Part of the job of being a GM is having an accurate valuation of your own player's trade value around the league and know what another team might be looking for. In this case, Yzerman got what he wanted and Allvin got what he wanted for what you agree to be a pretty fair price.

Yzerman got what he wanted at the time

But when you look at their D core, Detroit sure can use Hronek and Wallman right night. Inetad they overpaid for Chiarot and Holl