Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | It's All Gone Pete Tong

[Diablo2020]

Look, I've been saying since Allvin took over that the Canucks really don't have much of a shot at being a true contender - which is why I was more pro "reset/rebuild" when Allvin took over. But with the moves Allvin has made, he gave the Canucks a small (but real) chance of being a team that could make noise. Not a true contender, but a team that could go on a run if they get all the breaks. I was in favour of "going for it" last season because I thought that last season was likely their best chance at a Cup in the Quinn Hughes window. Demko getting injured dashed that, though.

But let's be real. You don't want a contender "every year for the next decade". What you're advocating for, in the best case, is a complete rebuild. They will have no high-end players and lose their MVP calibre captain. They won't be a contender for at least 5+ years. Probably closer to a decade. That's the bull case. The bear case is you doom the team to being the next Buffalo, just in a perpetual retool/rebuild but forever circling the drain.


100%. If you trade both you are admitting you are entering a full rebuild. There will be no hopes of being competitive for at least 5 years. Might as well trade Quinn before he walks to NJ in that scenario.

Normally when you trade away your starter, the hockey gods didnt gift you a new one beforehand.

Normally when you trade away your best sniper before you give him a ungoldy 8x8 type deal, you dont have Lekkerimaki basically NHL ready.

I dont see 2027 picks coming back for Petey, I see Mason McTavish types.

With all that capspace alone available, plus the allure of Vancouver the city and having Huggy still, there IS a world were WE are the NYR trading everyone then having one of the best UFA sign with us for a huge overpay.

Rantanen, McTavish, Lankinen, plus a haul for Petey, Miller and Boeser and were better off IMO and back to a real window starting next year.

 

[PavelBure10]

I really wish Ottawa was still sucking. I would feel much more comfortable with Pettersson straight across for B.Tkachuk. Just a straight up hockey trade. Tkachuk never takes a shift off and acquiring him would improve our chances of keeping Captain Canuck around since that's one of Hughes best friends.

 

[Hodgy]

Miller deserves double the criticism because he's downright lazy at times and is a dick to his teammates. Add to that the unprecedented 10 game mental health break that didn't appear to have any kind of professional treatment involved. He comes back and his play has seemed to be even worse. This is a loose cannon that you want to cash out on ASAP before his 100 pt season fades into memory.

I tend to agree in that I prefer Pettersson’s personality to Miller’s personality. But if we are being fair in our analysis of both, it must be recognized that management just called out Pettersson for his lack of preparation/compete/mental fortitude, or whatever you want to call it, so there’s clearly issues with both. Albeit Miller’s issues are more visibly noticeable. But he’s also more visibly noticeable in a positive way when he’s on the game as he a more fiery and emotional player vs. The more cerebral Pettersson.

It’s also kind of difficult to conclude exactly why he took the LOA although I’d probably lean to thinking it was team driven and may have been a result of Miller’s attitude….but that’s a ton of speculation.

We saw what Pettersson can do with the minutes that Miller gets. Perhaps there's a good argument that Pettersson should play away from Hughes given how he can tilt the ice on his own, but it's becoming clear that Hughes' dominance has hidden a lot of Miller's warts and if you trade for a generic 2nd line center to play those minutes you're probably not losing a lot.

Ya, like I said in a previous post, the conservative approach would be to trade Miller.

 

[Nick Lang]

RE: Demko
I think there is a very real chance that Vancouver evaluates Lankinen as their long-term starter if they believe Demko’s health makes him unsignable long-term.

If that is the case—I think there is a real window to trade him at this deadline. There are a number of contending teams like Carolina, Colorado, Minnesota, Edmonton, etc that could really value him this year.

Silovs already seems to be out of the picture. He had a fun short run last year but he does not seem able to read the puck at an NHL level to be considered a reliable option. Even for backup.

It's possible I suppose. At this point though he'd have to return from injury and then go injury free with good play to get any of these teams remotely interested. Right now I'd say he's almost untradeable. A trading team would also have to incorporate his salary the next year and we would need a suitable backup at the same time. A whole lot of risk involved for aspiring cup teams.

Yeah Silovs not looking good. You're right, he was so far behind the play it doesn't bode well for the future.

 

[oba]

Construction is not destruction.

(This PSA brought to you from the be careful of a.i. generated narratives division)

 

[Rowlet]

I'm not particularly interested in Romanov, his stats away from Dobson are pretty concerning.

42.99% CF, 44.84% FF, 46.85% xGF

 

[sting101]

Petterson for Robert Thomas and Parayko

Armstrong would never do that.

 

[pitseleh]

I tend to agree in that I prefer Pettersson’s personality to Miller’s personality. But if we are being fair in our analysis of both, it must be recognized that management just called out Pettersson for his lack of preparation/compete/mental fortitude, or whatever you want to call it, so there’s clearly issues with both. Albeit Miller’s issues are more visibly noticeable. But he’s also more visibly noticeable in a positive way when he’s on the game as he a more fiery and emotional player vs. The more cerebral Pettersson.

This is where I land too. I think you have to have the wool pulled over your eyes to think either player is without issue.

The Sedins show how you can be quiet leaders and there seems to be enough smoke to think that Pettersson isn’t at that level. And if he were still playing well it probably wouldn’t be a question but now that he hasn’t for about a season’s worth of games his preparation is coming into question. There may even be merit in Miller being hard on him.

But you can push hard on people if you’re Sidney Crosby or Michael Jordan. Miller can probably even get away with it when he plays like he did last year, but that kind of stuff will fall on deaf ears when you’re someone who doesn’t skate hard for line changes and plays poorly defensively, either because you zone out or try to do too much individually instead of playing within the team’s structure. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that his benching / leave timing coincided with him being too busy on the ice yelling at Pettersson to defend the Nashville PP.

The latter seems like much more of a short-term problem, whereas the former may mean you decide to cut bait if you think Pettersson’s habits are going to limit his play under his contract.

 

[ihaveyuidonttouchme]

Don’t think Miller’s on-ice outbursts are just a quick fix—he’s been doing this for years and well documented especially when things get tough.

Both guys’ attitudes, on and off the ice, make it hard to tell if they’ll ever change.
For me, I can at least tolerate EP more since he usually keeps to himself when he’s upset.

On the other hand, I can’t handle another instance of Miller going off on one of our own while failing to improve his own game enev if eps game falters

 

[rypper]

The team should bring in a veteran player who holds some weight and can be in a position to tell Miller to shut the f*** up and sit down when he needs to be told that. Another loud presence in the room. Doesn't matter if he's a #6 or plays on the 4th line.

Makes you wonder if Cole had that kind weight. You might not need to trade anyone if you can bring balance back to the room.

 

[VanJack]

If Allvin could ever succeed in trading Pettersson's $11.7m, long-term contract, he'd qualify as a 'loaves and fishes' miracle worker.

The only way you're going to be able to trade a contract like that, is to acquire a big-ticket contract back. So I just don't see it happening.

Miller's $8m, long term deal, will be tough enough to trade. But at least there's a larger group of players earning in the $6m - $8m range, which might make a Miller trade more doable.

Call it a co-incidence or whatever you want......but Pettersson played his best hockey of the season when Miller was on his leave of absence.

 

[StickShift]

The team should bring in a veteran player who holds some weight and can be in a position to tell Miller to shut the f*** up and sit down when he needs to be told that. Another loud presence in the room. Doesn't matter if he's a #6 or plays on the 4th line.

Makes you wonder if Cole had that kind weight. You might not need to trade anyone if you can bring balance back to the room.

I think that veteran was supposed to be Phil Kessel.

Still not sure why they didn’t sign him. They didn’t use that cap space for anyone else at the deadline.

They desperately needed another offensive winger option in the playoffs—but I feel like they needed another voice in the locker room more than anything else.

 

[Diversification]

I wonder how much of Petey's perceived shortcomings are a result of or magnified by JTM's need to mentor and harangue him? That if he wasn't being criticized constantly, would Petey's real limitation just be shyness and being too hard on himself and that he's better off being second banana with others taking more of a vocal leadership role?

 

[BimJenning]

The team should bring in a veteran player who holds some weight and can be in a position to tell Miller to shut the f*** up and sit down when he needs to be told that. Another loud presence in the room. Doesn't matter if he's a #6 or plays on the 4th line.

Makes you wonder if Cole had that kind weight. You might not need to trade anyone if you can bring balance back to the room.

Yeah. That and guys like Luke Schenn and Tanev. Somewhat surprised more of that wasn't sought out in the off-season instead of reuping Myers and bringing in the other slugs.

I'm more wary of holding onto and placing more weight on Miller in a career year when he and Boeser, his winger, shot around or over 20%. Ironically, Boeser is shooting at an even higher rate this year. Especially while Pettersson is shooting below his average career numbers, and generally plays a better defensive game.

 

[Diversification]

If Allvin could ever succeed in trading Pettersson's $11.7m, long-term contract, he'd qualify as a 'loaves and fishes' miracle worker.

The only way you're going to be able to trade a contract like that, is to acquire a big-ticket contract back. So I just don't see it happening.

Miller's $8m, long term deal, will be tough enough to trade. But at least there's a larger group of players earning in the $6m - $8m range, which might make a Miller trade more doable.

Call it a co-incidence or whatever you want......but Pettersson played his best hockey of the season when Miller was on his leave of absence.

It'd be easy to trade EP without taking back a bunch of dead weight. He doesn't have a NMC so he can be moved anywhere, including a bunch of markets that can't land a star UFA even if they pony up top dollar - Buffalo, CBJ, CHI, Ana come to mind.

Miller is more difficult because of his NMC and his age.

 

[DFAC]

Both these guys needs a sport psychologist. This "riff" is something out of high school dramas, pretty laughable tbh

 

[pitseleh]

Yeah. That and guys like Luke Schenn and Tanev. Somewhat surprised more of that wasn't sought out in the off-season instead of reuping Myers and bringing in the other slugs.

I'm more wary of holding onto and placing more weight on Miller in a career year when he and Boeser, his winger, shot around or over 20%. Ironically, Boeser is shooting at an even higher rate this year. Especially while Pettersson is shooting below his average career numbers, and generally plays a better defensive game.

Schenn always seemed like a big personality, and Tanev I'm sure carried a lot of weight because of the selfless way he plays.

I'm curious about Myers too - was asking the other day whether it seemed like he wasn't in front of the media as much as he had been in the past, which I find interesting given the turmoil, his long tenure, and the fact that when he was re-signed it was said it was because of his presence in the room and the way he prepares himself. I wonder where he fits into all of this.

Last season very well may have been a case of who knows what was happening behind the scenes because the team was winning.

 

[Diablo2020]

I wonder how much of Petey's perceived shortcomings are a result of or magnified by JTM's need to mentor and harangue him? That if he wasn't being criticized constantly, would Petey's real limitation just be shyness and being too hard on himself and that he's better off being second banana with others taking more of a vocal leadership role?

I wish we had another year before Petey's NMC kicked in. Then there would be actual time to send out Miller and see what Petey is capable of as the go-to guy.

Of course there is a correlation between the two but at the same time I think enough has happened to boths reputations in isolation that it doesnt matter.

Petey has shown up his warts, regardless of Miller and Miller has shown us his warts, regardless of Petey.

A year from now we're stuck with a 32-33 yr old Miller and a full NMC Pettersson.

Today, both might have really good value.

Sieze the day and opportunity, IMO.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Both these guys needs a sport psychologist. This "riff" is something out of high school dramas, pretty laughable tbh

Their feud is beyond that. Put them in a Hell In A Cell.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I really like Barzal and it would be cool to bring the hometown player home, but he will be turning 28 this year and is quite prone to injuries. Add it Romanov and it seems like a fair deal but it will still leave me wanting more.

I get the feeling everyone is right, we're not going to win a Pettersson trade.

I get the feeling the opposite is true, stars are aligning to win an EP trade more than ever, with multiple interested teams, all with excellent assets.
Extremely likely to improve this teams use of nearly twelve million in cap, especially with the oel hit upcoming..

 

[bossram]

it sounds a lot more grown up than being put in a time out.

It was a time out for Miller. With a nice PR spin while being able to shield him from any questioning.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I wonder what Utah would want for LW Matis Maccelli. He's having a bit of an off year but he's also been spending a lot of his time on the third line. Could be a good high reward trade if Allvin could sneak this player from Utah. He's only 24 and had some very good seasons in the NHL thus far.

I like Maccelli a lot. Really good hockey sense and a straight up underrated playmaker. Think he's the sort of guy who could create sweet music with Petey.

-

I think many of the people who want to deal Petey don't really follow other teams based on some of the proposed trades.

Cozens has been terrible for a year and a half (picked it up a little bit lately).

Barzal has never scored 25 goals, and has half a point per game in 18 games this season.

Their highlight reels may look good, but if you didn't follow the Canucks and watched Petey's sizzle reels you would be drooling for him.

Mark my words. If we deal Petey it's Cam Neely 2.0.

At this point, for me, if we're at that point then I don't mind moving Miller for a top 4 D and a flawed middle 6 center. Like a K'Andre Miller and Filip Chytil kind of package, hopefully with some kind of pick.

But Petey is a no go barring getting something outlandish like Leo Carlsson, Mintyukov, and a 1st.

 

[Vector]

It was a time out for Miller. With a nice PR spin while being able to shield him from any questioning.

You’re speaking very authoritatively on something you are speculating about.

 

[Diversification]

It was a time out for Miller. With a nice PR spin while being able to shield him from any questioning.

It would put the whole "How dare you question a player taking to sort out his personal affairs?!? We support JT and his family on his brave decision and the team's thoughts are with him. No more questions to be taken on the matter." into a whole new light though wouldn't it?

 

[bossram]

Normally when you trade away your starter, the hockey gods didnt gift you a new one beforehand.

Normally when you trade away your best sniper before you give him a ungoldy 8x8 type deal, you dont have Lekkerimaki basically NHL ready.

I dont see 2027 picks coming back for Petey, I see Mason McTavish types.

With all that capspace alone available, plus the allure of Vancouver the city and having Huggy still, there IS a world were WE are the NYR trading everyone then having one of the best UFA sign with us for a huge overpay.

Rantanen, McTavish, Lankinen, plus a haul for Petey, Miller and Boeser and were better off IMO and back to a real window starting next year.

If you trade Petey and Miller and Demko and Boeser, there is 0% chance Quinn is sticking around long-term. That is a full rebuild. You may as well trade Quinn at that point too. That is the direction you're going.

Lekk isn't going to step in and fill Boeser's shoes. If you trade Petey, you're getting an Eichel-esque package back - which will ensure the club remains in the mediocre zone. There is zero path to contention there. Even if you get a "McTavish type" back, that calibre player is not going to be the 1C of a contender. That calibre of player is inferior to what Petey is right now, and faaaaaar inferior to what we've seen historically from Petey. Zero path to contention there either. You aren't getting a "haul" for Miller either. The best case would be clearing his cap hit for positive value.

Top UFAs aren't going to sign in VAN when they look at the roster after all the projected trades you want to make. It's laughable you think Rantanen would come here after that.